What's happening to motorsport?

[Peter Mallett]

Clubs that sick around with the regs year on year add to competitor's costs. Another reason why grids dwindle.

Entry fees and minutes per £ are meaningless if you have to spend large wads just to keep up with the changes.

[indigorallye]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Luck never came into it, hard work did.

I resent that. I work long, hard hours to try and afford my hobby.

[Peter Mallett]

I meant to write "dick" around so apologies for the typo.

Indigo, many of us took out loans to feed our habits so don't take offence. Some folks just haven't lived.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Piglet

And being of an age where buying something to live in didn't initially cost you half the national debt of an emerging country?

when I was married a wage of 1200 pa bought a 12k house with interest rates around 10%; now a wage of 25k buys a 250k house, with interest rates of 3%. Who is better off?

[Peter Mallett]

Ooh I know. You were, because the values were leaping up the scale so selling and buying was a lot easier than now. Happy days.

Also the percentages don't matter as much as the term of the mortgage and the monthly outlay.

And now, back to the thread.

[Tim Falce]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

when I was married a wage of 1200 pa bought a 12k house with interest rates around 10%; now a wage of 25k buys a 250k house, with interest rates of 3%. Who is better off?

Exactly, when I bought my first house in 1982 at £17.5K my mortgage was £200 per month with a 16% interest rate, my daughter has just bought a new flat for £130K and her repayments are only about double what I was paying @ 3%. One thing though, a £25K wage wont get a £250K mortgage nowadays, she struggled to get a mortgage and she earns well above that figure.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by Piglet

And being of an age where buying something to live in didn't initially cost you half the national debt of an emerging country?

The downside of that is that as I'm finding out, being semi-retired doesn't fund a racing budget....and I think if I suggested taking out a mortgage to pay for it I would be..... what's the word?

oh, yes, dead!

[Peter Mallett]

So, now we know that the problem with motor racing is, it costs money? Hmm, never in all my life would I have thought of that one.

So far all this thread has done is pile crap on to organizers. Some of it may well be justified but for goodness' sake, can't we actually look to ourselves? If we don't support a series, can the bloody thing. Let the drivers look elsewhere. It's not the MSA's fault that someone built a car that has nowhere to race.

However there is the 360 but that might be asking drivers to actually do something for themselves.

I think the problem stems from expectation. Someone is convinced that the MSA/BARC/BRSCC and the affiliated clubs, owe them a grid. If so, they are deluded. (IMHO).

[simes43]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Clubs that sick around with the regs year on year add to competitor's costs. Another reason why grids dwindle.

Entry fees and minutes per £ are meaningless if you have to spend large wads just to keep up with the changes.

Spot on! The expense created by the stroke of a pen can be significant, even in the "budget" level championships. I have no problem when the change is made for safety reasons or to replace an unobtainable part, however, the introduction of more expensive parts that improve performance is where the problems really start.

The other significant issue that creates cost way and beyond acceptable levels is the introduction of BTCC driving standards at club level due to the cost of repairing cars because of the Plato effect.

I watched some recent club level in car footage and was shocked by the amount of cars that were fired off by the guy behind so that he or she could make up a position. Four on one lap alone!

Running to the CofC with a cheque book should not be the answer.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by simes43

I watched some recent club level in car footage and was shocked by the amount of cars that were fired off by the guy behind so that he or she could make up a position. Four on one lap alone!

Running to the CofC with a cheque book should not be the answer.

Oddly enough, I've just been looking at a Facebook page with that particular issue highlighted.

[Lancsbreaker]

Agree that CofC's should be enforcing better driving standards....it can be done........

On a brighter note, CSCC seem to be doing something right judging by the grids shown on TSL's Donington results:

Magnificent 7s - split into two grids - 29 and 20 respectively
Tin Tops - 38 in qualifying (can't remember what Donington's max grid is)
CNC Sports and Saloons - 36 in qualifying
Bernie's V8s (combined with Detche Marque) - 34 - 17 of each, I think.
Jaguars - 24

CSCC 40 minute races are £365, Jags (2 x 20 minute) £355.

And I believe that tomorrow's grids are likely to be pretty good, too

[Peter Mallett]

I think the CSCC and the HSCC both support my point that dicking with the regs does nothing for the club. They both have stable rules that allow the drivers to plan their season.

[indigorallye]

Max for Donnington today was 36.
Tin Tops had three reserves, would have been four if I wasn't working (too pay for racing!)
Tin Tops is also a series rather than a championship, I wonder if there is any relevance there.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by indigorallye

Max for Donnington today was 36.
Tin Tops had three reserves, would have been four if I wasn't working (too pay for racing!)
Tin Tops is also a series rather than a championship, I wonder if there is any relevance there.

Just saw from TSL results that it was 36......

but 8 none-finishers - including MMCAndy who retired after one slow lap....

Not sure of the Series versus Championship....I would imagine a Championship makes you more inclined to do all rounds , whereas with a Series you are perhaps more likely to cherry pick? Though in my experience with CSCC the core competitors do most rounds, there are certainly quite a few who only do odd ones.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

The downside of that is that as I'm finding out, being semi-retired doesn't fund a racing budget

Exactly,I found that out a while back and there is a life outside of motor racing !
Mind you it took me a bit more than 40 years and probably the cost of a few houses to realise it !! but I would do it all again
Anyway you can't take your money with you when you snuff it so you might as well spend it !

[indigorallye]

Richard, I'd be inclined to agree re the championship v series, but they are obviously doing something right.
I am one of the few who dips in and out, but that's down to the fact that I can't be away from home. So it's 'northern' events only for me.

[Minicross424]

Interesting fact.
10,000 people are packed into Skegness stadium this evening for the F1 Stockcar world final.
Look like they know a thing or two erh?

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

there is a life outside of motor racing !

Burn the heretic!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Agree that CofC's should be enforcing better driving standards....it can be done........

More importantly, perhaps, is that they should be seen to be enforcing better driving standards.

On a brighter note, CSCC seem to be doing something right judging by the grids shown on TSL's Donington results:

Maybe not unrelated to driving standards?

As a marshal I want to see good clean, close racing. If I can get through a meeting without one written report I'm happy; on the other hand if I do have to do written reports I want to feel that I'm not wasting my time. . . haven't done a BTCC meeting for a long time. . .

[saaben]

Originally Posted by Minicross424

Interesting fact.
10,000 people are packed into Skegness stadium this evening for the F1 Stockcar world final.
Look like they know a thing or two erh?

There might be 10,000 at Skegvagas but they all aren't happy with the support formulae.£30 to watch F1's and stoxcarts.They have got the crowd in but sold the punters short on the programme.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by indigorallye

I resent that. I work long, hard hours to try and afford my hobby.

resent away you were the one thap quipped i was lucky, as though i was born with a silver spoon or something when nothing could be either from the truth.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Piglet

And being of an age where buying something to live in didn't initially cost you half the national debt of an emerging country?

oh you mean in the same period when the national minimum wage was around £25 a week. Its all relative my friend all relative.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by indigorallye

Max for Donnington today was 36.
Tin Tops had three reserves, would have been four if I wasn't working (too pay for racing!)
Tin Tops is also a series rather than a championship, I wonder if there is any relevance there.

Just as well you saved your money then as you wouldn't have got a race. The last reserve was allowed to take the green flag lap but refused to pull off when no one dropped out so the race was immediately red flagged and the offender sent to the clerk for what one would assume would be some severe punishment.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I think the CSCC and the HSCC both support my point that dicking with the regs does nothing for the club. They both have stable rules that allow the drivers to plan their season.

with respect to CSCC as I like them as a club but they don't really have many regs to.dick about with.

[Peter Mallett]

I have made that point elsewhere, however it is a good example of a club running series, rather than championships and getting consistently good grids. You might also add the HRDC to that list.