Group A Rover 3500 SD1/Vitesse - History & Whereabouts

[MG Rover Sport]

Nice bit of digging around there KA - you clearly have far too much time on your hands!

I too have been 'doing a bit', and have unearthed the following photos of interest. The first two black n white images come from an Austin Rover Motorsport newsletter entitled Racecard - the first from 1984...



... and the second from 1985...



NOTE : Two Marlboro Rovers in the pitlane on the last photo.

The following photo was taken outside the NEC at the 1984 Motor Show, and clearly shows a Marlboro Rover on static display - aswell as Austin Rover Fleet and Andy Rouse's ICS examples. I do have other photos from this show which I will attempt to find and post here for you all.



And the last photo is taken from a German Rover SD1 brochure, and features a nice action shot of the Gitanes/Castrol and Austin Rover Fleet Rovers during an unknown European Touring Car Championship round, circa 1984 I guess.

[Peter Mallett]

Looking at the front air dams I'd say 1983 or slightly earlier?

The don't appear to have centre locks so Group 1 cars? Possibly one of the cars recently e bay'd?

Sorry I'm referring to the cars on track. Those in the NEC pic are early group A cars.

[chunterer]

Wiw all of a sudden we've got Marlboro mania. Amazing what can be found!

Yeah I seem to remember a red and white parked at the 84 NEC show as well?

The side view looks like a later model Group A with that airdam, as we discussed pages ago, that was later homolgoated for Group A? but is one of the French ST's cars. Ditto the 2 in the Silverstone pitlane with what looks like a Vision clubmans behind them?? Open test day perhaps?

The Gitanes and Fleet cars on track are I think at the '84 Nurby ETC round (first chicane?) This was the last race before the Spa round IIRC, so TWR possibly used the event to shake down the Gitanes entry. Pond and Jabouille were the drivers I reckon.

Back to the Portuguese Red car I wonder if it's actually an ex Patrick or Martin Thomas Grp 1 and not TWR car? There's something about the look of how the bumpers are set and the wheels. Other possibility is (if it wasn't resprayed in this actual livery) that it's the ex Sawyer Hoare car from 1983 which was a Martin Thomas run example I believe. This car then may have been sold off because i think that CS-H ran a newly built Rouse car in 1984, before that in turn went off to Australia driven by Tim Slako.

More things to chew over anyway....

[MG Rover Sport]

I think they're all early Group A cars, Peter. Bare in mind that the Marlboro cars ran to slightly different French Group A rules and therefore had different front airdams amongst other things. I also don't think Austin Rover would've used the photos in 1984 and 1985 if they were as early as you suggest they are. Just my 2p worth...

'chunterer' - it never even occurred to me that the two Marlboro cars were in the Silverstone pitlane! You're dead right, more than likely an early 1985 open test day.

You didn't get where you are today without noticing such locations did you?

I also think you're right about the Castrol / Gitanes car being at the Nurburgring.

The Eddy Joosen / Jean-Pierre Jabouille / Tony Pond entry ran at Spa in the full Gitanes livery and not the 'ba5tard-ized' Castrol version of the Gitanes livery - see images below from Spa.





I cannot recall, but was Germany anti cigarette sponsorship in the early 1980s? I know Belgium most certainly was, which is why it is surprising the Gitanes livery survived during that particular race - or is Gitanes a Belgian cigarette company?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I also think you're right about the Castrol / Gitanes car being at the Nurburgring.

I've just checked on www.touringcarracing.net and the Armin Hahne / Eddy Joosen Castrol (Gitanes) sponsored Rover Vitesse was indeed Nº 8 for the 1984 Nurburgring ETC round on 8 July 1984 - proving that the photo I posted within Post #338 (above) was indeed from that event as 'chunterer' suggested. Incidentally, the duo finished 15th Overall & 13th in Class.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I've just checked on www.touringcarracing.net and the Armin Hahne / Eddy Joosen Castrol (Gitanes) sponsored Rover Vitesse was indeed Nº 8 for the 1984 Nurburgring ETC round on 8 July 1984 - proving that the photo I posted within Post #338 (above) was indeed from that event as 'chunterer' suggested. Incidentally, the duo finished 15th Overall & 13th in Class.

There you go!

Mind you I still got one half of that driving pairing for that race wrong thus revealing chip in the archive brain!

That particular livery was imo one of the prettiest Vitesse liveries of the period. When I was little when I first saw any colour shots of it in Autopoor or whatever I initially thought it was Rouse's car because at first glance the paint scheme is similar.

The other thing about that particular chassis is judging by the Spa shots and I suspect Nurby, it got one hell of a battering in it's competitive life!!! Must have been one of the 'Torpedo' cars of that season.

It did 3 possibly 4 rounds that year (in that livery?) Zeltweg, Nurby, Spa and then not sure but maybe Zolder as the squad was slightly depleted for the last 2 races as Tom sent an effort to Bathurst, and as far as I can tell the Fleet cars didn't enter Mugello at all?. If it did it did do others events, did it also run in another livery ? Have to say I can't recall if we've pinned down the number of this particular car yet.

(Note, Rouse and other Group A builds also need to be explored at some point as we seem to, with good reason, concentrated on confirming the 20 odd TWR chassis first as there's lot more of them.)

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I cannot recall, but was Germany anti cigarette sponsorship in the early 1980s? I know Belgium most certainly was, which is why it is surprising the Gitanes livery survived during that particular race - or is Gitanes a Belgian cigarette company?

I'm pretty sure Germany was very much anti-cigarette sponsorship- I'm sure the Bastos cars ran unbranded at the 'Ring in 85 (I've seen a pic somewhere recently of one with no 'Bastos' signwriting, but more prominent 'Texaco' and 'Austin Rover' branding). Belgium doesn't seem to have been so concerned- Bastos and Belga were both heavily involved in Belgian motorsport at least into the 90's...

[KA]

Originally Posted by KA

On another forum, this is apparently a recent pic of the car in it's current state- described as ex-TWR, and apparently for sale about a year ago.

If it's the same car as in the shots of the 1983 Estoril race a few posts back, and it is ex-TWR, then presumably another early (ex-Group 1?) car....?

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum...8&d=1141651506

Just tracked down the advert for the ex-Meireles Portuguese car on
http://gtclube.com/classificados/classicos.htm

More pics if the original link didn't work...
http://gtclube.com/classificados/classicos/40_500.jpg
http://gtclube.com/classificados/cla...40_500-(1).jpg

and a couple more views here
http://www.velocidadeonline.co.pt/sa...p?noticia=5233

[KA]

Sticking with a Portuguese theme, just posted this link in the BMW 635 thread, but thought it worth repeating here- mostly Portuguese BMWs but if you scroll down the page, there are a few Rover pics, including a couple of pit lane shots from the 1985 Estoril ETC round, one showing a WHITE Bastos Rover....

http://www.automodelista.org/topic3299.html

[MG Rover Sport]

Cracking research as ever KA - top man!

The white Bastos car was driven at Estoril in 1985 by Steve Soper / Eddy Joosen, although it never finished the race due to oil loss. I wonder whether this was a new chassis for this particular meeting, hence why it appeared in white as there possibly wasn't time to spray the basic livery prior to the meeting - only guessing though?

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Cracking research as ever KA - top man!

The white Bastos car was driven at Estoril in 1985 by Steve Soper / Eddy Joosen, although it never finished the race due to oil loss. I wonder whether this was a new chassis for this particular meeting, hence why it appeared in white as there possibly wasn't time to spray the basic livery prior to the meeting - only guessing though?

I think you could be right there- in the previous race at Zolder 2 weeks earlier, Walkinshaw/Percy had retired due to an accident. I think it was posted earlier in the thread (possibly by Ken Clarke?) that it was a first-corner shunt on lap 1, and the car (chassis 017) was very heavily damaged?

Could the white car be a new car quickly built up to replace 017? If it had been built up in a hurry, (maybe with little chance for any testing mileage?) as suggested by the lack of full Bastos livery, maybe TW preferred to race one of the other cars at Estoril, and let Soper/Joosen use the new car which might prove unreliable...

[chunterer]

That white '85 car could be the one Ken Clarke referred to few pages ago (chassis 008??) This car started life as a Fleet '84 ETC chassis then utilised as a 3rd Bastos car for '85, got shunted by Soper at Donington ETC round, rebuilt and contiuned to be used that season, but not with Soper as a driver? If this car is the one the white shell would make sense as they might not have gotten around to doing a full Bastos red/white paint job again?

However guys as you've pointed out that Soper was one of the drivers of this white car at Estoril (it's also on the '85 season review video IIRC) this tends to underline that it may well not be 008 if indeed Steve never drove that chassis again!!

But surely we're due another Ken update soon I would've thought??!!

1984 original chassis need confirming.....

[KA]

I've had a go at finding out more about the Portuguese Pedro Meireles car- I first found it mentioned on the forum at Ultimatecarpage.com, where a friend of the owner had posted the recent pics in a thread on famous touring cars. I posted a question about whether the owner knew anything about the car's history before it went to Portugal, and got an interesting reply:

Originally Posted by McReis

I don't think the present owner knows much about the Rover's history before arriving to Portugal. Anyway, this is what I know: recently when he started the engine rebuild, and because the piston heads have a particular shape that you don't find on other tuned Rover engines, he had contact with Mr. Tom Walkinshaw to seek for some help. Mr. Walkinshaw had the non-enthusiast approach and told my friend he couldn't help him, but offered to buy him the car as it was, after knowing it's chassis number. This must mean the car has some interesting history.

[chunterer]

Well that is a very interesting response KA!

I guess that sort of confirms that it is an ex TWR chassis, in all likelihood a Grp 1 car originally!

Now if memory serves me right although he wasn't a regular BTCC driver in Group 1 or Group A Rover days, Major Tom qualified a Sanyo Grp 1 car at Thruxton in 1982 as a 3rd entry, but never actually raced it (either the Easter or Whitsun Tricentrol rounds?).

I wouldn't be surprised therefore if it's that car and therein would lie his significant interest in buying it??

[bigears]

I was on a session of flathunting this morning and I decided to go for a quick stroll to my local park where there is a steam and vintage rally show there at the moment.

I noticed that there is a black Rover Vitesse SD1 car there and I looked at its competition history and it was claimed that it raced in the BSCC and ETCC championship in 1984-1985.

I am thinking of going back to take some photos of the car. Any specific requests?

Of course, I will go and find more information of the car for the benefit of this thread.

[MG Rover Sport]

Sorry 'bigears' - I've only just seen your post, so didn't get a chance to ask for anything specific.

Did you get a chance to go back and see the car, take any photos or discover a little bit more about the car you mention? I'm sure we're all interested in hearing more about it if you did.

[chunterer]

Yes, let's have some piccies!

A black car with BSCC and ETC history eh??

The one that instantly brings to mind is Dennis Leech's earlier car (not the latter TWR one that got bent at Thruxton) but then he never did the ETC rounds in those years afaicr?

It must be another TWR chassis as I don't recall any privateer Vitesses entering ETC rounds in 1984 or 1985 with the possible exception of Charles Sawyer Hoare's Daily Mirror Rouse run car at the '84 TT although it didn't actually race. I don't think Rouse ever ran his ICS one for him or Pete Hall in those ETC rounds either.

[KA]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes, let's have some piccies!

A black car with BSCC and ETC history eh??

The one that instantly brings to mind is Dennis Leech's earlier car (not the latter TWR one that got bent at Thruxton) but then he never did the ETC rounds in those years afaicr?

It must be another TWR chassis as I don't recall any privateer Vitesses entering ETC rounds in 1984 or 1985 with the possible exception of Charles Sawyer Hoare's Daily Mirror Rouse run car at the '84 TT although it didn't actually race. I don't think Rouse ever ran his ICS one for him or Pete Hall in those ETC rounds either.

Pete Hall's ICS Rover did do the 85 TT- Hall shared with Phil Dowsett, and finished 22nd overall. Don't remember that car ever being black though- didn't it go on to be Tim Harvey's Istel car, and then was later raced in Modsaloons (Derek Hales?), still basically in the ex-Istel white/blue stripes colourscheme?

A black car made me think of the Dennis Leech car as well- I don't think I can remember anyone else running a black Group A Rover. He certainly didn't make any ETC appearances in 84/5, although he did enter the 86 TT with Neil McGrath, but didn't start.... engine failure in qualifying? (see pic halfway down the page at http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

[chunterer]

I take my hat off to you KA! Great confirmations again re the ICS car.

I couldn't remember the Rouse car doing ETC. Yeah it was later Tim Harvey's 87 mount and is now Nigel Garrett's car.

We'll have to wait and see what bigears comes up with image wise to determine more about this particular black car he's seen.

[corliss]

Originally Posted by KA

It's certainly going to be an interesting challenge.

Just a fairly random thought- thinking back to the previous page, it was posted that Geert acquired it from a French owner who'd bought it as the 85 Schlesser car, which it apparently isn't.

Ken Clarke described it as maybe a Group 1 car, so could it be an early chassis (either an ex-Sanyo car or the ex-Metge car) car that after being raced in France was subsequently adapted and given a cosmetic update for use as a display car or similar, which might go some way to explaining some of the odd features Skip commented on- the mixture of Gp1/GpA bodywork, possibly standard engine, wrong exhaust etc?

Car now home after an interesting trip and meeting Belgiums answer to Arthur Daly. The car is Definately NOT a French Metge car, but after stopping off at ken`s it appears to be one of the Sanyo Grp1 cars, DPR shell, everything seems to match photo`s from a french magazine track test of that car, interior fittings, underbonnet details etc. The shell has had about 5 different paint schemes but the original Sanyo blue is still underneath it all. Has Std running gear fitted so was probably used as a show car and updated over the years, hence the later bodyparts, one of the coats of paint is dark blue, could have been painted in Gitannes colours once. Obviously will have to be restored as Sanyo spec, as soon as I can get some paint off the roof I hope to find a drivers name still there.
Geert evaded the question of a second race car claiming he never had one and had never mentioned it!! Free road car was a total rust bucket early car minus Engine.
I will update as I find out more about car. Skip

[MG Rover Sport]

Hi Skip - so pleased you've managed to get the car back to 'Blighty', and very interested to see what you've unearthed about the car in such a small timescale. Was Ken pleased to see it then?

I suppose if it's Sanyo blue under everything else, then it dates back to the 1982 season at least. However, with it being a David Price Racing bodyshell, then it might be even earlier than that by my reckoning. DPR ran the cars during the 1980 season in Triplex / ESSO / Motor livery, with TWR taking over for the 1981 season in Daily Express / ESSO livery.

If what Skip says is correct - ie Sanyo Grp 1 car built on a DPR shell - then I'd say it could be one that was inherited by TWR when they took over the programme from DPR for the 1981 season. Chances are that the cars (and spares) actually belonged to British Leyland at the time, so whoever carried on for the next season from DPR actually acquired all the cars (and spares).

So (even more speculation here!) the car could have been rebuilt / newly built for the 1981 season by TWR, using an ex-DPR race car / spare bodyshell. That's the only reason why we'd have a Sanyo Grp 1 car built on a DPR shell by my reckoning - unless anyone else knows otherwise?

Skip - if this speculation is somewhat more than the sad late night ramblings of an enthusiastic anorak, then there may well be one more colour scheme under the Sanyo blue that you are expecting to find at the bottom!

The 'show car' theory not only explains the assorted body parts that this car features from Series 1 and Series 2 cars, but also the variety of colour schemes evident from your post above. It'll be like travelling back through time - each layer will need removing to reveal another era below it.

I've got a few photos that might be of interest. Shall I post them here for everyone's pleasure, or do you want to send me your email address by PM? Tell you what, I'll post smaller versions here, and I'll drop the larger files on an email to you if they're of interest?

I'm so pleased that the future prospects of this car in making a healthy return to recollect past glories. Top man - please do keep us informed of developments as and when you get a chance.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

If what Skip says is correct - ie Sanyo Grp 1 car built on a DPR shell - then I'd say it could be one that was inherited by TWR when they took over the programme from DPR for the 1981 season. Chances are that the cars (and spares) actually belonged to British Leyland at the time, so whoever carried on for the next season from DPR actually acquired all the cars (and spares).

I've got a few photos that might be of interest. Shall I post them here for everyone's pleasure, or do you want to send me your email address by PM? Tell you what, I'll post smaller versions here, and I'll drop the larger files on an email to you if they're of interest?

I'm so pleased that the future prospects of this car in making a healthy return to recollect past glories. Top man - please do keep us informed of developments as and when you get a chance.

Indeed a nice tale or a car being 'rescued' from obscurity by an enthusiast. Makes this forum such a pleasure to be part of (if for the fact that i could only dream of having the bottle to do something simialr myself!!!)

Yes, get posting those images MGRS, more the merrier. My little collection doesn't go back further than 1984 as people have probably gathered as that was my first season of proper trackside viewing. In fact the only shots i've got left are Rouse built cars and the odd blurry TWR one, mainly from the Paddock because I only had a basic camera at the time making tracksdie photos poor and didn't get a zoom lens until well after this period. I'd love to have taken shots when I saw the odd Grp 1 race at beginning of the 80's though.

Look forward to seeing some 'strip down' pics of each livery that you come across corliss!

[MG Rover Sport]

To restore anything with an ex-factory connection, and with such pedigree as this car potentially has, has got to be a dream of the majority of posters on here I'd say. Join the queue...

Here are a couple of quick photos I've managed to locate since coming home from work this evening - both look like 1982 BTCC at Donington to me. The first one I got signed by Jeff at the 2004 BTCC Masters race - amongst a few other Rover related items I must admit! The second one is from a friend's collection - Roy Davies - sound chap & many thanks!

I've got your PM Skip, and will drop you an email later. I'll also see what else I can find amongst all this 'junk' - to quote the good lady!



http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1877/...nington750.jpg

[racer69]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I couldn't remember the Rouse car doing ETC. Yeah it was later Tim Harvey's 87 mount and is now Nigel Garrett's car.

Wasn't this car written off at Snetterton during testing prior to the 1987 BTCC round (which forced them to source another car for the race), or did they just replace the shell?

[chunterer]

That's a good question!

I didn't know about this, but i'm pretty positive that the same car was at the TT which would've been shortly after the Snett BTCC round.

So maybe they ran a loaned car at Snett and rebuilt the Rouse car in time for the TT and end of season BTCC rounds?

God I wish I had that season review video!