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[Paradise City]

You keyboard kings keep smiling if you are a competitive person and you find yourself on the wrong side of company power dynamics. You are going to get frustrated after years even if your 2nd tier position is merited. I defy any competitive person to be comfortable with that.

Anyway Webber I think was inferior to Vettel but he could still have some legitimate grievances with the team. The two aspects are not necessarily in contradiction and I think that was probably the case.

In relation to his potential punditry, no man is an island, it's not impossible that a little bias will creep in there (or likely not!) but that's all part of being human, I'm not necessarily distracted by that and he could still deliver some fine punditry. F1 is serious but that not that serious, a tiny dose of Huntesque irreverence would be more than welcome in my book.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by henners88

I could just imagine if Oscar Pistorius is judged in the same way you have judged Webber here. In any analysis we need to look for depth rather than simplified facts. I don't want to go down the route of judging a drivers ability based on his wikipedia stats just yet.

I've no idea what you're talking about here. Oscar Pistorius is the defendant in a murder trial, I'm just expressing my opinion on a F1 driver based on what we know [and don't know]

[davyboy]

Webber wasn't chained to RBR. If he really believed he was being undermined to the point that it was costing him wins and WDCs, he could have walked. He didn't and that alone speaks volumes.

[henners88]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I've no idea what you're talking about here. Oscar Pistorius is the defendant in a murder trial, I'm just expressing my opinion on a F1 driver based on what we know [and don't know]

Exactly. Its very difficult to to form a negative opinion on someone as a driver knowing full well we never saw 99% of the behind the scenes treatment and discussions that went on. Anyway this is going off topic onto a Webber discussion now and I can't be bothered with that.

He'll be good for the BBC as he's always very good in front of the camera and is a straight talking no rubbish sort of guy. It'll be interesting to hear his opinions and there is no chance he'll slag off his old team mate or team even if many would love that to be the case. I doubt the BBC would allow it anyway.

[henners88]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Webber wasn't chained to RBR. If he really believed he was being undermined to the point that it was costing him wins and WDCs, he could have walked. He didn't and that alone speaks volumes.

OK judge point taken.

[MarkG]

Seems to me, Webber irritates Vettel fans, like he quite possibly did the RB team. Way off topic.

[VIVA GT]

From what I've seen of him (on TV) I really like Mark Webber, and one of my main reasons for that is his (apparent) straight talking approach. If he stuffs up, he'll hold his hands up and admit it. By the same token, if he thinks that someone else has stuffed up, he'll also say so.
While I do look forward to his input (and especially that aspect of it), I would still prefer to hear Garay Andersons simple explanations of how the new technology for this year is causing what is happening to happen.

[henners88]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

From what I've seen of him (on TV) I really like Mark Webber, and one of my main reasons for that is his (apparent) straight talking approach. If he stuffs up, he'll hold his hands up and admit it. By the same token, if he thinks that someone else has stuffed up, he'll also say so.
While I do look forward to his input (and especially that aspect of it), I would still prefer to hear Garay Andersons simple explanations of how the new technology for this year is causing what is happening to happen.

That is pretty much my opinion. I like Mark too but if it was a toss up between him and Gary, I'd go with Gary every time as I think he had plenty to add from a technical perspective. He has a knack of explaining boring over technical things in a very simple way.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Webber wasn't chained to RBR. If he really believed he was being undermined to the point that it was costing him wins and WDCs, he could have walked. He didn't and that alone speaks volumes.

Indeed. Mark said that Seb and Fernando were the 2 best drivers of this generation. Had he driven for Ferrari he'd still be behind his team mate.

I'm sure that Mark will have a rye grin if Seb conks out on the first lap, but i expect him to be professional and not bleat about it in a hysterical manor.

[bella]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

You keyboard kings keep smiling if you are a competitive person and you find yourself on the wrong side of company power dynamics. You are going to get frustrated after years even if your 2nd tier position is merited. I defy any competitive person to be comfortable with that.

it's a normal part of life for most of us with a job. if you don't think it is, then you either run your own company or you're in a very relaxed company without deadlines. or the civil service.

don't get me wrong, he's a smart guy and i'm sure he's going to have lots of interesting things to say but it doesn't mean i have to like him when he says it.

[p-matt]

Originally Posted by henners88

Yeah because we got a great insight into the inner workings of Mark's in team relationship by just watching the TV lol. You've based your entire opinion on 'barbed snippets' it seems, yet its only welcome when it suits I see

I have no idea what you mean by that. I meant barbed snippets in the sense that Webber's only contribution to the BBC seems to be a retrospective on his career, not the insight of a recent driver over the course of a GP weekend.

I think Webber has admitted he was outperformed by Vettel. But he is yet to admit that he got incredibly lucky in 2010 when Seb had all the bad luck.

[henners88]

Originally Posted by p-matt

I have no idea what you mean by that. I meant barbed snippets in the sense that Webber's only contribution to the BBC seems to be a retrospective on his career, not the insight of a recent driver over the course of a GP weekend.

I think Webber has admitted he was outperformed by Vettel. But he is yet to admit that he got incredibly lucky in 2010 when Seb had all the bad luck.

Webber did a column for the BBC for years and spoke very much about news in the sport and his opinions of its politics. I think that is all a driver can offer. I don't think Webber is yet to admit anything, just like we wouldn't expect the same of Vettel. Every driver needs an element of luck, even the best in the sport.

[S griffin]

So Seb had all the bad luck in 2010? You mean like driving into Webber in Turkey or crashing into Button at Spa? And also getting a puncture at Silverstone after not giving Hamilton enough room? And let's not forget that while Webber had no mechanical failures, who's to say that wasn't due to Vettel being hard on the car. Not saying that was the case, but you never know.

[p-matt]

No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a spark plug failure in Bahrain, a wheel issue in Australia and an engine failure in Korea - all of which when leading the race, and unlikely to do with Vettel pushing too hard. Webber was very fortunate to get home at Singapore after his clash with Hamilton. If there were a few more laps to run he probably wouldn't have made it, such was the damage on his car. Let's not forget Vettel creating a gap in Hungary behind the safety car to help his teammate, which he got a penalty for, gifting Webber another win.

Incidentally, should we explain off Webber's legendary bad luck on him pushing his equipment too hard, or just generally being hard done by the Red Bull team as always?

[chunterer]

I like Webber but I find that he is often difficult to listen to and his speech or delivery is clumsy, it's like he struggles to know how to put things?

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by chunterer

I like Webber but I find that he is often difficult to listen to and his speech or delivery is clumsy, it's like he struggles to know how to put things?

Or maybe trying to be diplomatic?
Anyway, maybe it's the wine I've consumed, but the Vettel/Webber thing has been done to death in the past hasn't it? It's tiresome (to me) to see it all starting again.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by MarkG

Or maybe trying to be diplomatic?
Anyway, maybe it's the wine I've consumed, but the Vettel/Webber thing has been done to death in the past hasn't it? It's tiresome (to me) to see it all starting again.

Plus 1

I think even Mark thinks that it has now been done to death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz2rDfiTTbk

[JeremySmith]

I think Marks attitude is really cool concerning Sebastian...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think Marks attitude is really cool concerning Sebastian...

I genuinely don't believe that he will use his new role as a pundit to whinge about being hard done by... even wryly smiling when Sebastian runs into trouble. .. it serves no purpose other than to make him look like a sore looser.

In the immediate aftermath of his retirement, David Coulthard occasionally sniped at Michael Schumacher. That's now stopped and DC was man enough to fess up and acknowledge that Schumacher was on a completely different level to him and indeed that having such a benchmark actually enhanced the value of his own career. Personally, my respect for DC increased massively when he said that... and if Mark Webber is mature enough to acknowledge something similar, I'm sure many will feel the same way. It may not be something a driver wants to admit when they're still racing in F1, but after they retire, it matters less.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I honestly can't believe this Webber/Seb thing is still being talked about...

Of course he's not going to mention it, and even if he does, i'm sure it'll be tongue in cheek/in jest.

Surely that's just done?

Selby

[henners88]

At the end of the day Mark walked away from F1 as a multiple race winner, a feat many drivers never achieve so I doubt he's bitter about anything now. He's in demand in the racing world away from F1 and can be satisfied he gave it his best. He seems refreshed now and I think this will translate well through the coverage. Hopefully Red Bull won't be a hot topic this season anyway, so maybe it won't be so tempting to try and get Mark to talk about old stuff. Let's just enjoy the fact he's going to be sharing his input.

[Knowlesy]

The absolute state of that F1 show then.

A live studio audience with Lazenby and Pinkham, with added laughter at JPM. It was my worst nightmare really.

[f1scanner]

>The absolute state of that F1 show then.

That was truly awful......a drunk cameraman, an audience that resembled a train spotters convention, and Pinkham dressed in a horrible Porsche 919 outfit.

One can only hope it gets a lot lot better

[Knowlesy]

I suspect the studio audience will be there to stay?

They employ the same idea on Saturday Night Football and it is predictably dreadful. I don't understand the craze for it these days. Filling a studio/disused warehouse with thick people is just the most daft thing. But I suppose you get "banter", which is all the young producers of today want. They'll get Tim Lovejoy or Matt Dawson to present it soon I am sure, with a cackling Ally McCoist nearby.

It worked on Top Gear for a while I suppose. In 2002.

[Adam43]

The concern about Webber's view on Vettel seams to be more our problem than his.
He's cool with it, it's others who can't cope with it. People with no lives.