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2 Sep 2013, 14:33 (Ref:3297813) | #301 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 101
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"If the USCR returns in 2014 with lots more cars I'll eat my hat and refuse to watch. If they could just move the chicane back about 15-20 feet so that they aren't hitting the train tracks mid corner (which is apparently what is causing all of those crashes), the major problem would be solved. Also, widen turn 1 and 4... that's a necessity."
Well. After seeing that mess yesterday, I have serious doubts that the USCR will be back. They have enough strong, solid road courses in North America (plus you know that the manufacturers will want Long Beach and Detroit), so I highly doubt they will be back. What a horrible race. All that bent up machinery. Uggh. Leave it for Indy Car. |
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2 Sep 2013, 16:34 (Ref:3297888) | #302 | ||
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Whilst I agree with all the haters of the track to a point - street races are one of the best ways to get new fans as the race is forced upon many who otherwise wouldn't watch and some of those will inevitably be drawn in and watch again.
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2 Sep 2013, 16:46 (Ref:3297898) | #303 | ||
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So I finally got to watch the race since they uploaded it to youtube. What a mess this race was.
Looking back at the zeroth lap incident, I can't blame Dyson or Graf. Both interpreted the starting procedure differently. This mess if solely the organizers fault and their lack of communication with the teams/drivers imo. As for the track, some areas have to be repaved and others have to be widened. This track may be fine for Indycars but I find it slightly too small for sports cars. If the event organizers are serious about this, changes need to be made imo. |
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Roger Penske to Paul Tracy about the Indy 500: "We both won it but I've got the trophy" |
2 Sep 2013, 16:57 (Ref:3297906) | #304 | ||
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Just watching the TV coverage... what a lame "race track." With all of the air the cars where catching, the only thing racing on it should be Robby Gordon's stadium truck series.
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Tim "Travel makes a wise man better, and a fool worse." Thomas Fuller |
2 Sep 2013, 18:33 (Ref:3297949) | #305 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 183
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This is exactly what should have happened. Dyson getting the penalty was absurd. Them being penalized for "jumping the start" does NOT tell the true story of the mayhem at the start, as some here seem to think. The starter should have simply waiting to wave the flag until HE thought it was safe to do so. If I were Dyson, I'd sit out the rest of the season and let their pay drivers run their car while they prepare for next near.
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2 Sep 2013, 18:38 (Ref:3297952) | #306 | ||
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Just watched the IndyCar race on PVR - and it looks like the track isn't wide enough for them, either. What a mess. IndyCar clearly hasn't sorted out its re-start procedures either - three rows lined up after the chicane the first couple of times, but the last couple were really not set properly (one was scrubbed, to be fair).
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3 Sep 2013, 01:12 (Ref:3298148) | #307 | |||
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3 Sep 2013, 12:51 (Ref:3298316) | #308 | ||
Racer
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 200
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I just caught up on this thread after watching the race live and being frustrated by it. Everyone is blaming the track, the organizers, the starter, Klaus Graf, Chris Dyson etc. for the red flag, but what about Lazzaro's driving? I have respect for him and all that he has accomplished, but it was his contact with Tucker's car that caused it. Stuff like this happens in racing, but ultimately, it is up to him to make a safe start. You can blame Klaus for going slow at the start, but Lazzaro should have been able to see that.
It's my opinion, of course, but I base it on this video starting at 1:40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72rFX...PclYs9kdSC1F-A At 1:40, you get the in-car from Lazzaro. You can clearly see the MM HPD in front of the Level 5 car. In fact, Lazzaro's point of view of the MM HPD should be better than the in-car view, because he sits to the right of the camera. In his interview, he did say he tried to go to the left to avoid the accident, and I give him credit for that. But part of me wonders if he was only paying attention to the left line and the Level 5 car, instead of looking ahead. It was very unfortunate that it happened, and this race lost a lot of its luster to me after how horrible it went. |
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3 Sep 2013, 13:13 (Ref:3298323) | #309 | ||
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I don't think any blame can be put on Lazzaro. The team is telling him green and he sees cars on the left driving by. For him to check up would be very hard considering Graf was still going at the formation speed, not even attempting to accelerate.
It was a split-second decision and he made the wrong one...but I don't think it was his fault. |
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Roger Penske to Paul Tracy about the Indy 500: "We both won it but I've got the trophy" |
3 Sep 2013, 13:45 (Ref:3298337) | #310 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 334
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For anyone who hasn't seen the race yet, or wants to hear Bryan Sellers and his race complementary with Jeremy Shaw and Greg Creamer, here's the link to the ESPN broadcast: http://bit.ly/138SGV8.
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4 Sep 2013, 16:56 (Ref:3298954) | #311 | |||
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Quote:
Regarding the front straight, I've wondered why they don't just pave over the Pratt street tracks the same as they do on the back side of the Camden Yards warehouse, and the only thing I can think is that it would provide too much of a rise and introduce air underneath of the cars. Added to that the additional MPH going into one and it could be a safety issue. Turn one could be made wider, as the little island that makes up the middle of the turn one / turn one escape road could be removed easily. It's basically a pedestrian island between Harbor Place and the light street / pratt street interchange. That said, the concrete from 12 down to 4 IS really bumpy. Every time I drive there in my street car, which is modified and lower / stiffer than most but nowhere near a race car, I still can't believe they race on those streets. Honestly I'm torn. The first two events (2011/2012) were fantastic. Great racing, huge crowds and everyone generally buzzing about the event. This year had (to my eye) few attendees and was probably the worst race I've ever been to. I don't want to see the city lose the race as it exposes the series to a HUGE number of people that otherwise wouldn't know about it, and brings a lot of 'positive' attention to a city more known for the Wire and crime problems, but if we can't solve whatever track problems that led to the ALMS / Indy car crashes and delays this year, we may as well forget it. |
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-Nate |
4 Sep 2013, 19:42 (Ref:3299041) | #312 | |||
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Quote:
-mike |
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5 Sep 2013, 16:50 (Ref:3299547) | #313 | |||
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The chicane is before the tracks and all the 'air' the cars are catching is purely induced by aggressive curb hopping by the drivers. It's a matter of either slowing down and taking it easy over the curbs or going all out to get that extra 1/10 second. Can the island at turn 1 actually be removed? That would take a redesign of that part of the intersection along with removal of the curbs which I would expect would not be an easy sell to the local Dept. of Transportation. |
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5 Sep 2013, 17:02 (Ref:3299553) | #314 | |||
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L.P. |
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Probae esti in segetem sunt deteriorem datae fruges, tamen ipsae suaptae enitent |
5 Sep 2013, 17:27 (Ref:3299570) | #315 | |||
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-mike |
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6 Sep 2013, 10:51 (Ref:3299855) | #316 | |
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The curb/chicanes are on the front straight, so losing speed there effectively cuts the straight in half, with slow drivers starting form zero halfway to T1.
The cars catch air through the chicanes because if they didn't they would fly a lot further over the tracks, which apparently form quite a ramp---so quite a lot of street would need to be repaved, and since it is apparently a major thoroughfare, not only id s the ridiculously high price of repaving involved, but the delays in traffic. Considering the first promoters screwed the city, I am not guessing there is another $10 million in the budget to tear up one of the most-traveled street. No good compromise here. Either ridiculous and unprofessional tire chicanes and broken cars, or no chicanes and broken cars, or a broke city which can't afford the event. |
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6 Sep 2013, 13:26 (Ref:3299883) | #317 | ||
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As Robin Miller mentioned in Racer, another issue is that Baltimore can’t hold the race over the Labor Day weekend for the next two years. What impact a different date would have on the event’s viability remains to be seen. Not that it may matter that much in an USCR context, as the sports car series may not be back there in any case.
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“Sometimes there’s no poison like a dream.” — Tanya Donelly |
6 Sep 2013, 13:57 (Ref:3299890) | #318 | |||||
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Quote:
I don't see why they couldn't remove the turn one island. It's just a pedestrian island, and while curbs may provide some kind of protection I'm sure some kind of more substantial but removable barriers would be safer, and would allow turn one to be mega wide. There is one tree, a stop light post a bus stop shelter and some street signs that would need to be dealt with. Quote:
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-Nate |
6 Sep 2013, 16:54 (Ref:3299937) | #319 | |||
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8 Sep 2013, 01:52 (Ref:3300346) | #320 | ||
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Baltimore isnt the only track with pile up problems....
http://www.racer.com/zamparelli-susp...rticle/310743/ |
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8 Sep 2013, 05:15 (Ref:3300377) | #321 | |||
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9 Sep 2013, 05:57 (Ref:3300819) | #322 | |||
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Quote:
http://youtu.be/XPwi5NmEso0 |
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RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
9 Sep 2013, 17:01 (Ref:3301069) | #323 | |||
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Quote:
DK |
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9 Sep 2013, 19:43 (Ref:3301149) | #324 | ||
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That is true.
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RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
9 Sep 2013, 20:02 (Ref:3301158) | #325 | ||
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They sorted it out themselves in 2011, so there was no caution, and no noticeable damage to the cars that time. There wasn't much damage in 2012, and it should have been fine, but guys either wouldn't take the escape road, or over-juiced it coming out of the corner and created another problem.
BTW, all those complaining about the Prototypes on street courses, the GTs caused their own stack-up at Baltimore in 2011, and almost had another one last year at Long Beach (Corvette in the middle of a BMW sandwich going through the Fountain Complex section). Champ Car did have a stack-up in Turn 1 at Long Beach in 2006, so it can happen. Back to San Luis, there was an incident involving three of the Aston Martins in the first GT1 race in 2010. Also, Andrew Kirkaldy was turned sideways in his F430 GT2 at that hard right-hander on the start of the 2008 FIA GT race. Basically, looking at the Turn 1 preparations for Baltimore this year, it looked VERY good. I can't think of another street circuit with a particularly better arrangement at Turn 1 in terms of width throughout, providing a reasonably generous corner radius, not to mention the escape/bypass road option. Now, I do wonder how the crown in the road is, compared to some other street circuits. I'm pretty sure Baltimore gets more rain than Long Beach, and Belle Isle in Detroit doesn't see the traffic levels of either of those two, so the need to dissipate water there is also lower. A number of the other Indy Car street circuits use just one side of a road for significant stretches, and/or use parade grounds or other thoroughfares that don't have to abide by as strict a standard. |
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The only certainty is that nothing is certain. |
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