ALMS Round 7: Baltimore

[The Happy Track Fan]

"If the USCR returns in 2014 with lots more cars I'll eat my hat and refuse to watch. If they could just move the chicane back about 15-20 feet so that they aren't hitting the train tracks mid corner (which is apparently what is causing all of those crashes), the major problem would be solved. Also, widen turn 1 and 4... that's a necessity."

Well. After seeing that mess yesterday, I have serious doubts that the USCR will be back.

They have enough strong, solid road courses in North America (plus you know that the manufacturers will want Long Beach and Detroit), so I highly doubt they will be back.

What a horrible race. All that bent up machinery. Uggh. Leave it for Indy Car.

[Mal]

Whilst I agree with all the haters of the track to a point - street races are one of the best ways to get new fans as the race is forced upon many who otherwise wouldn't watch and some of those will inevitably be drawn in and watch again.

[Salamus]

So I finally got to watch the race since they uploaded it to youtube. What a mess this race was.

Looking back at the zeroth lap incident, I can't blame Dyson or Graf. Both interpreted the starting procedure differently. This mess if solely the organizers fault and their lack of communication with the teams/drivers imo.

As for the track, some areas have to be repaved and others have to be widened. This track may be fine for Indycars but I find it slightly too small for sports cars. If the event organizers are serious about this, changes need to be made imo.

[Breitling24]

Just watching the TV coverage... what a lame "race track." With all of the air the cars where catching, the only thing racing on it should be Robby Gordon's stadium truck series.

[fanta4]

Originally Posted by mdaro

The starter should have held the field. You can not wave a green flag and expect drivers to hold back. How is Chris Dyson supposed to know how many cars are past the tires?

This is exactly what should have happened. Dyson getting the penalty was absurd. Them being penalized for "jumping the start" does NOT tell the true story of the mayhem at the start, as some here seem to think. The starter should have simply waiting to wave the flag until HE thought it was safe to do so. If I were Dyson, I'd sit out the rest of the season and let their pay drivers run their car while they prepare for next near.

[rwintle]

Just watched the IndyCar race on PVR - and it looks like the track isn't wide enough for them, either. What a mess. IndyCar clearly hasn't sorted out its re-start procedures either - three rows lined up after the chicane the first couple of times, but the last couple were really not set properly (one was scrubbed, to be fair).

[FLGTFAN]

Originally Posted by fanta4

This is exactly what should have happened. Dyson getting the penalty was absurd. Them being penalized for "jumping the start" does NOT tell the true story of the mayhem at the start, as some here seem to think. The starter should have simply waiting to wave the flag until HE thought it was safe to do so. If I were Dyson, I'd sit out the rest of the season and let their pay drivers run their car while they prepare for next near.

Really? Over a crappy jump start penalty? I'd do just the opposite and go for wins. They have nothing to lose.

[Brownj]

I just caught up on this thread after watching the race live and being frustrated by it. Everyone is blaming the track, the organizers, the starter, Klaus Graf, Chris Dyson etc. for the red flag, but what about Lazzaro's driving? I have respect for him and all that he has accomplished, but it was his contact with Tucker's car that caused it. Stuff like this happens in racing, but ultimately, it is up to him to make a safe start. You can blame Klaus for going slow at the start, but Lazzaro should have been able to see that.

It's my opinion, of course, but I base it on this video starting at 1:40: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72rFX...PclYs9kdSC1F-A

At 1:40, you get the in-car from Lazzaro. You can clearly see the MM HPD in front of the Level 5 car. In fact, Lazzaro's point of view of the MM HPD should be better than the in-car view, because he sits to the right of the camera. In his interview, he did say he tried to go to the left to avoid the accident, and I give him credit for that. But part of me wonders if he was only paying attention to the left line and the Level 5 car, instead of looking ahead.

It was very unfortunate that it happened, and this race lost a lot of its luster to me after how horrible it went.

[Salamus]

I don't think any blame can be put on Lazzaro. The team is telling him green and he sees cars on the left driving by. For him to check up would be very hard considering Graf was still going at the formation speed, not even attempting to accelerate.

It was a split-second decision and he made the wrong one...but I don't think it was his fault.

[FalkenALMS]

For anyone who hasn't seen the race yet, or wants to hear Bryan Sellers and his race complementary with Jeremy Shaw and Greg Creamer, here's the link to the ESPN broadcast: http://bit.ly/138SGV8.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Wow what a weekend.

Really cool area to hold a race, but the chicane and railroad tracks on the front straight really ruin it. Every lap it felt like we were destroying the car and were lucky to have everything still attached by the time we got to start finish.

...

Anyway.. just trying to share some info. Was nice meeting probably 12 or more people from the forum at the track this weekend! Cheers,

-mike

Hey Mike, Great to meet you as well, and congrats on the podium! I was wondering what your impression of the 9-10-11-12 sequence was? That's my personal favorite part of the track.

Regarding the front straight, I've wondered why they don't just pave over the Pratt street tracks the same as they do on the back side of the Camden Yards warehouse, and the only thing I can think is that it would provide too much of a rise and introduce air underneath of the cars. Added to that the additional MPH going into one and it could be a safety issue.

Turn one could be made wider, as the little island that makes up the middle of the turn one / turn one escape road could be removed easily. It's basically a pedestrian island between Harbor Place and the light street / pratt street interchange.

That said, the concrete from 12 down to 4 IS really bumpy. Every time I drive there in my street car, which is modified and lower / stiffer than most but nowhere near a race car, I still can't believe they race on those streets.

Honestly I'm torn. The first two events (2011/2012) were fantastic. Great racing, huge crowds and everyone generally buzzing about the event. This year had (to my eye) few attendees and was probably the worst race I've ever been to. I don't want to see the city lose the race as it exposes the series to a HUGE number of people that otherwise wouldn't know about it, and brings a lot of 'positive' attention to a city more known for the Wire and crime problems, but if we can't solve whatever track problems that led to the ALMS / Indy car crashes and delays this year, we may as well forget it.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Hey Mike, Great to meet you as well, and congrats on the podium! I was wondering what your impression of the 9-10-11-12 sequence was? That's my personal favorite part of the track.

Thanks! I really liked the 9-12 section. Turn 9 is very difficult.. a few different options for lines and a lot of entry speed and a wide exit lead to interesting situations. 10-12 is very challenging (at least in our GTC car with very little downforce) but it's smooth and you can gain a lot of time if you're willing to take big chances. Turn 12 is also deceptively wide open because the inside apex wall is "rounded off" and not squared.. which lets you be just a little bit more aggressive with your entry speed.

-mike

[Bicknell55]

Originally Posted by WolfsburgRS

Hey Mike, Great to meet you as well, and congrats on the podium! I was wondering what your impression of the 9-10-11-12 sequence was? That's my personal favorite part of the track.

Regarding the front straight, I've wondered why they don't just pave over the Pratt street tracks the same as they do on the back side of the Camden Yards warehouse, and the only thing I can think is that it would provide too much of a rise and introduce air underneath of the cars. Added to that the additional MPH going into one and it could be a safety issue.

Turn one could be made wider, as the little island that makes up the middle of the turn one / turn one escape road could be removed easily. It's basically a pedestrian island between Harbor Place and the light street / pratt street interchange.

That said, the concrete from 12 down to 4 IS really bumpy. Every time I drive there in my street car, which is modified and lower / stiffer than most but nowhere near a race car, I still can't believe they race on those streets.

I thought I've read/heard that the city will not allow them to pave over the Pratt St. tracks. I can only assume that this section is kept active up until only a few days before the race? I was looking at the paving job by the station at Camden Yards and it looked like a good 8"-12" of pavement was put down. I would tend to agree with your speculation that doing something similar on Pratt St. would create an even larger crest than they had in 2012 during the 1st practice session when they attempted to not use a chicane.

The chicane is before the tracks and all the 'air' the cars are catching is purely induced by aggressive curb hopping by the drivers. It's a matter of either slowing down and taking it easy over the curbs or going all out to get that extra 1/10 second.

Can the island at turn 1 actually be removed? That would take a redesign of that part of the intersection along with removal of the curbs which I would expect would not be an easy sell to the local Dept. of Transportation.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Bicknell55

I thought I've read/heard that the city will not allow them to pave over the Pratt St. tracks. I can only assume that this section is kept active up until only a few days before the race? I was looking at the paving job by the station at Camden Yards and it looked like a good 8"-12" of pavement was put down. I would tend to agree with your speculation that doing something similar on Pratt St. would create an even larger crest than they had in 2012 during the 1st practice session when they attempted to not use a chicane.

The chicane is before the tracks and all the 'air' the cars are catching is purely induced by aggressive curb hopping by the drivers. It's a matter of either slowing down and taking it easy over the curbs or going all out to get that extra 1/10 second.

Can the island at turn 1 actually be removed? That would take a redesign of that part of the intersection along with removal of the curbs which I would expect would not be an easy sell to the local Dept. of Transportation.

We have several RR crossings in town where I live, a smooth crossing is more than capable of being done. They would have to close the line, grind it out, install concrete underlay with approach aprons, pave that over, with adjustable floating metal plates directly next to the tracks, works great!






L.P.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by Bicknell55

The chicane is before the tracks and all the 'air' the cars are catching is purely induced by aggressive curb hopping by the drivers. It's a matter of either slowing down and taking it easy over the curbs or going all out to get that extra 1/10 second.

Being aggressive with the curbs isn't worth .1, it's worth over a second per lap.

-mike

[Maelochs]

The curb/chicanes are on the front straight, so losing speed there effectively cuts the straight in half, with slow drivers starting form zero halfway to T1.

The cars catch air through the chicanes because if they didn't they would fly a lot further over the tracks, which apparently form quite a ramp---so quite a lot of street would need to be repaved, and since it is apparently a major thoroughfare, not only id s the ridiculously high price of repaving involved, but the delays in traffic.

Considering the first promoters screwed the city, I am not guessing there is another $10 million in the budget to tear up one of the most-traveled street.

No good compromise here. Either ridiculous and unprofessional tire chicanes and broken cars, or no chicanes and broken cars, or a broke city which can't afford the event.

[TheMightyM]

As Robin Miller mentioned in Racer, another issue is that Baltimore can’t hold the race over the Labor Day weekend for the next two years. What impact a different date would have on the event’s viability remains to be seen. Not that it may matter that much in an USCR context, as the sports car series may not be back there in any case.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by Bicknell55

I thought I've read/heard that the city will not allow them to pave over the Pratt St. tracks. I can only assume that this section is kept active up until only a few days before the race?

Can the island at turn 1 actually be removed? That would take a redesign of that part of the intersection along with removal of the curbs which I would expect would not be an easy sell to the local Dept. of Transportation.

As soon as they start building the track and pave over the tracks south of the stadium it effectively cuts the line off at pratt street anyway, so paving over the pratt street section would only move the southernmost stop for commuters one stop north, about two blocks.

I don't see why they couldn't remove the turn one island. It's just a pedestrian island, and while curbs may provide some kind of protection I'm sure some kind of more substantial but removable barriers would be safer, and would allow turn one to be mega wide. There is one tree, a stop light post a bus stop shelter and some street signs that would need to be dealt with.

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The cars catch air through the chicanes because if they didn't they would fly a lot further over the tracks, which apparently form quite a ramp---so quite a lot of street would need to be repaved, and since it is apparently a major thoroughfare, not only id s the ridiculously high price of repaving involved, but the delays in traffic.

Considering the first promoters screwed the city, I am not guessing there is another $10 million in the budget to tear up one of the most-traveled street.

Yes, Pratt street is THE eastbound street to get through downtown. It would be quite a mess...

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

As Robin Miller mentioned in Racer, another issue is that Baltimore can’t hold the race over the Labor Day weekend for the next two years. What impact a different date would have on the event’s viability remains to be seen. Not that it may matter that much in an USCR context, as the sports car series may not be back there in any case.

I was wondering if the contract that the promoters have with the city includes the date, or merely the ability to run the race. Either way if there's no sports cars, I won't be back. (except maybe for world challenge)

[Bicknell55]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

As Robin Miller mentioned in Racer, another issue is that Baltimore can’t hold the race over the Labor Day weekend for the next two years. What impact a different date would have on the event’s viability remains to be seen. Not that it may matter that much in an USCR context, as the sports car series may not be back there in any case.

I would think the changing date would hurt more than help. You no longer have the connection that Labor Day weekend is the race weekend.

[mdaro]

Baltimore isnt the only track with pile up problems....

http://www.racer.com/zamparelli-susp...rticle/310743/

[Matt]

Originally Posted by mdaro

Baltimore isnt the only track with pile up problems....

http://www.racer.com/zamparelli-susp...rticle/310743/

Holy crap, that white car that goes slinging across the track from the right on the start, that's insane!

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by mdaro

Baltimore isnt the only track with pile up problems....

http://www.racer.com/zamparelli-susp...rticle/310743/

have we forgotten about fia gt1 2011?
http://youtu.be/XPwi5NmEso0

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

have we forgotten about fia gt1 2011?
http://youtu.be/XPwi5NmEso0

Yes, but isn't Baltimore the only place to have this happen 3 years in a row before 1 lap has been completed? Just wondering!

DK

[Lagunaseca_4life]

That is true.

[Purist]

They sorted it out themselves in 2011, so there was no caution, and no noticeable damage to the cars that time. There wasn't much damage in 2012, and it should have been fine, but guys either wouldn't take the escape road, or over-juiced it coming out of the corner and created another problem.

BTW, all those complaining about the Prototypes on street courses, the GTs caused their own stack-up at Baltimore in 2011, and almost had another one last year at Long Beach (Corvette in the middle of a BMW sandwich going through the Fountain Complex section). Champ Car did have a stack-up in Turn 1 at Long Beach in 2006, so it can happen.

Back to San Luis, there was an incident involving three of the Aston Martins in the first GT1 race in 2010. Also, Andrew Kirkaldy was turned sideways in his F430 GT2 at that hard right-hander on the start of the 2008 FIA GT race.

Basically, looking at the Turn 1 preparations for Baltimore this year, it looked VERY good. I can't think of another street circuit with a particularly better arrangement at Turn 1 in terms of width throughout, providing a reasonably generous corner radius, not to mention the escape/bypass road option.

Now, I do wonder how the crown in the road is, compared to some other street circuits. I'm pretty sure Baltimore gets more rain than Long Beach, and Belle Isle in Detroit doesn't see the traffic levels of either of those two, so the need to dissipate water there is also lower. A number of the other Indy Car street circuits use just one side of a road for significant stretches, and/or use parade grounds or other thoroughfares that don't have to abide by as strict a standard.