[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[zac510]

Only 2l for turbo petrol is a bit harsh in P1.. mind you it's inline with the big engine capacity drop for diesels and petrol n/a.

I don't think they will be measuring HP - it's probably more of a guideline, as in "this is our aim for all engines in this category". There's no statement I can see that will say they will measure individual engine hp, nor a historical precedent.

It's a bit of a shock but I think we'll get used to it. Especially if the trend goes against big road car engines in our road cars, the ACO will be aligned with that by 2011.

KERS regs sound good to me. Shame flywheels were outlawed but the rest of them are still quite flexible.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by zac510

Only 2l for turbo petrol is a bit harsh in P1.. mind you it's inline with the big engine capacity drop for diesels and petrol n/a.

Not really. Back when the IRL cars were badged with Chevy engines, these Chevy badged Ilmore engines made a 1.6L v6 turbo that produce close to 1000 hp.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by Dario911

I'm totally disapponted for the new rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMP1 with only 520 hp?! Is this a fake? Are we going to lose our time? It's a real disaster! I will never love this sport, with this stupid rules!
How many hp will the Kers give to the LMPs?!

1) The trend for car engine capacity is towards smaller higher revving engines with less cylinders, the ACO, unlike F1 and other forms of racing is actually anticipating future automotive trends.

2) The ACO doesn't want to have to make any other changes to the track, hence slowing the cars down.

KERS regulations look good, especially with them being used to for fuel efficiency rather than increasing speed.

[Japanese Samurai]

Sports-carracig.net reports the rumor that Nissan did lobbying to ACO to admit AWD by the regulation of GT1.
Nissan seems to be interested in a GT1 category.

[Japanese Samurai]

Sorry, not ACO. Correct is FIA world council.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I do not know if I would state it is an obvious mistake, probable yes, but it could mean a 3L to 4L V8. If you look at the current P-1 n/a it says 6.0L (pg-10 in LMP rules) but in the restrictor table (page 24) it lists many different engine sizes.

Still here: http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/ac...D_3610_gb.html

it says "3.4-litre". That's why I thought it could be a mistake.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by deggis

Still here: http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/ac...D_3610_gb.html

it says "3.4-litre". That's why I thought it could be a mistake.

I think so too. I was just playing devil's advocate.
It seems that the ACO might have legislated Mazda out of LMP (?), Mazda does not produce anything with a V8 in it and I see no provisions for an I4 in either of the LMP classes. Unless they introduce a GT-2 car in/by 2010 with the MZR-R in it or build a 2.0L V6 turbo race engine.
Everyone else I can think of is pretty much covered.

Judd-DBV8
AER-P32T @3.4L reworked to a N/A engine
Zytek-ZG348 for P-1 and the new 2ZG458 or 2ZG408 for P-2 via Ginetta G-50
Acura-LMV8
Porsche-MR6
Toyota-(?) RV8J or 3UZ-FE @ 3.4L
Nissan-(?) VRH35L reworked to a VRH34L
Aston Martin- Vantage V-8 engine



L.P.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Sports-carracig.net reports the rumor that Nissan did lobbying to FIA to admit AWD by the regulation of GT1.
Nissan seems to be interested in a GT1 category.

If this is true!.
It would mean that the GT-R will come to Le Mans!, and perhaps in 2011, the engine will be used to run a Lmp1?
(Changed ACO to FIA, from the original post)

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

I think so too. I was just playing devil's advocate.
It seems that the ACO might have legislated Mazda out of LMP (?), Mazda does not produce anything with a V8 in it and I see no provisions for an I4 in either of the LMP classes. Unless they introduce a GT-2 car in/by 2010 with the MZR-R in it or build a 2.0L V6 turbo race engine.
Everyone else I can think of is pretty much covered.


L.P.

The original French says "2 litres Turbo jusqu’a 6 cylindres" that is UP TO 6 cylinders - so the AER 4 Cyl in its various badgings will be fine for P1 I think.

Mariantic

Edit that is a acute of course but the software seems to turn that into a jusqu’Ã*

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Sports-carracig.net reports the rumor that Nissan did lobbying to ACO to admit AWD by the regulation of GT1.
Nissan seems to be interested in a GT1 category.

Nissan would have to build a whole new GT-R.

The street version is not competitive what so ever at the GT1 level. May be closer to GT3 or GT4 Level.

Now if they take out over 1200 lbs, carbon fiber body and build a true race car as other manufactures have, and make it rear wheel drive, then yes maybe in GT2, but not GT1.

[Mike_Wooshy]

I think nissan has spoken the the FIA about the 4WD seeing if they will allow it which I think is a good thing, it certainly opens the GT upto more manufactures. which surely cant be a bad thing ?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by mariantic

The original French says "2 litres Turbo jusqu’a 6 cylindres" that is UP TO 6 cylinders - so the AER 4 Cyl in its various badgings will be fine for P1 I think.

Mariantic

Edit that is a acute of course but the software seems to turn that into a jusqu’ê

Thanks for the clarification, mon ami! Je ne parle pas Français. (googled)



L.P.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Nissan would have to build a whole new GT-R.

The street version is not competitive what so ever at the GT1 level. May be closer to GT3 or GT4 Level.

Explain, please

[HORNDAWG]

Are there not threads to discuss GT rules in? As this threads is titled, LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules)!




L.P.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Explain, please

There have been a few GT-Rs racing with us already.

Turns out they are no where near as fast as the magazines say they are. Actually in un bisades TTs or qualifying sessions their times are quite a bit off the pace. And that is running with 18 wheels all around and race rubber too.

The GT-R is 3800 lbs as a street vehical, then add a drivers weight? that is over 4000 lbs. The gutted race version with full cage and driver was 3400 lbs. When the GT-R went through the manditory dyno test, the HP was way off from the magazen tests or marketing info.

The GT-R has postential, lots of potential. But untill that 1000 lbs is shead, it wont be competitive.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Dario911

I'm totally disapponted for the new rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMP1 with only 520 hp?! Is this a fake? Are we going to lose our time? It's a real disaster! I will never love this sport, with this stupid rules!

Entirely dependent on restrictors.

The direct injection Porsche 3.4l V8 is putting out close to 550bhp, it was a significant jump over the old motor.

If 2011 P1's use 2006 P2 restrictors, they'd be putting out close to 600bhp.

In recent seasons P2 restrictors were only reduced to maintain the gap to P1, no need for that when they become the top class.

P1 needs headroom to develop, without yearly updates to restrictors, aero etc, a smaller engine allows that.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

The GT-R has postential, lots of potential. But untill that 1000 lbs is shead, it wont be competitive.

Which I'm sure it would if it was developed into a GT1. Remember, a roadgoing DB9 weighs 50 kg more than a GT-R.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by JAG

Entirely dependent on restrictors.

The direct injection Porsche 3.4l V8 is putting out close to 550bhp, it was a significant jump over the old motor.

If 2011 P1's use 2006 P2 restrictors, they'd be putting out close to 600bhp.

Add to this hybrid drive - about 80-100bhp

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Valenok

Add to this hybrid drive - about 80-100bhp

No not really.

The MAX hp is 520 bhp. The hybrid is to help save fuel consumption, not add more HP

So if we take your 100 bhp from a hybrid, the normal engine would have 420 bhp.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

So if we take your 100 bhp from a hybrid, the normal engine would have 420 bhp.

Hmm, that is if we ignore the rule of Hybrids not adding Hp!.
An Lmp1 engine will have 520 HP with or without the Hybrid system!

[zac510]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

No not really.

The MAX hp is 520 bhp. The hybrid is to help save fuel consumption, not add more HP

So if we take your 100 bhp from a hybrid, the normal engine would have 420 bhp.

How have you interpreted that the maximum is 520hp? There is nothing in the wording of the regulations to imply that.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by CTD

Hmm, that is if we ignore the rule of Hybrids not adding Hp!.
An Lmp1 engine will have 520 HP with or without the Hybrid system!

Correct.


Buy reading the new 2009 regulations and for 2011 http://www.lemans.org/sport/sport/ac...D_3610_gb.html

The main outlines of the 2011 regulations

"The technical definitions for the 2011 Le Mans 24 Hours concern 4 precise points:
- LM P1 and LM P2 engines: reduction of power, and cubic capacity reduction in LM P1 (diesel, 3.7-litre twin turbo 8 cylinders maximum instead of 5.5 litres, petrol, normally aspirated 3.4-litre 8 cylinders maximum instead of 6 litres, petrol, 2.0-litre turbo 6 cylinders instead of 4.0 litres), in LM P2 (diesel, 4.0-litre turbo 8 cylinders, petrol, 4.0 litres prepared on the basis of 2010 GT2, petrol, 4.5-litre series production). The minimum weight in LM P1 remains at 900 kgs and is increased from 825 to 900 kgs in LM P2.
- Hybrid systems aimed at reducing fuel consumption (free development in compliance with precise rules).
- Fuel tank capacities (75 litres instead of 90 litres for petrol engines, and 68 litres instead of 81 litres for diesels).
- Wheel dimensions unchanged in relation to the 2009 regulations)."

Not to increase HP but to reduce fuel consumption. 2009 rules of max on 520 hp is still relevent

[johntt]

Originally Posted by zac510

How have you interpreted that the maximum is 520hp? There is nothing in the wording of the regulations to imply that.

Just looked at the PDF again. Could be thats a ballpark figure, it all depands on what the engineers can get out of the engine with whatever restrictor they get given.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

The minimum weight in LM P1 remains at 900 kgs and is increased from 825 to 900 kgs in LM P2.

Never saw this before now!
why increase the weight in LMP 2, and give them smaller engines!, this will make it uninteresting to enter in that category!.
One thing is sure!, it will make it completely privateers!

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by CTD

Never saw this before now!
why increase the weight in LMP 2, and give them smaller engines!, this will make it uninteresting to enter in that category!.
One thing is sure!, it will make it completely privateers!

What's the horsepower-target for LMP2? When they use current GT2-engines, they'll end up at around 480hp with the current restrictors.