[BTCC] 2015 BTCC news & rumours

[porsche962fan]

Alain Menu intends to remain with BMR for 2015 !! but nothing signed yet

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

I maybe mis-reading this but I believe Alex Morgan has suggested on social networking that the Megane has been built/is being built for 2015. He was involved in the project when it first surfaced...

Hopefully, it's a tremendous looking car!

https://www.facebook.com/touringcart...type=3&theater

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by davyboy

With very few exceptions the BTCC is comprised of wealthy individuals [or individuals from wealthy families] capable of underwriting a very expensive hobby and who are reasonably competent racing drivers. The BTCC is not a driving meritocracy and the grid is definitely not filled with the good and the great. But I've no problem with that. It is what it is and provides great entertainment.

And if you want to follow a championship with the best 'driving meritocracy' in the world then you need to look no further than the DTM.

But that's another thing...

[Sodemo]

I'm all for new manufacturers coming into the btcc, it's good for the profile of the series, but I have to admit, I'm not much of a fan of the infinity car. It just looks huge.

To be honest, I think the problem is me. I realised the other day that I think the majority of new road cars are ugly. I can't think of one road going btcc car that I consider attractive, even the current A4, which is probably the closest thing I have to a car that I find visually appealing. The bmw looks ok, I guess, but it needs a boot, in fact the 1 series coupe would have been the perfect car, but coupes aren't allowed.

When I look now at new (regular) road cars (not talking sports cars here), I just consider most of them to be ugly. It's only really the Alfa Romeos, new Seat Leon, fiat 500, Renault Megane Sport, that I consider attractive and those few cars were me wracking my brain for about 10 minutes.

What has happened to the BMW range? I actually think the 6 series doesn't look too bad, but the 2 series, 3, 4 and 5 series, dear lord, they look atrocious, who'd want to see a touring car made out of those cars? The 5 series was never a small car, but the current one looks like a sail barge, same with the 3 series, it used to be a reasonably small car, now it's massive. It might make a decent GT car, in fact, thinking about it, the DTM car doesn't look awful, but then DTM cars are changed so much you could start with a mini and end up with something that looks totally different at the end.

For me, it used to be the case that you slapped 19" wheels under the arches and fitted a front splitter to any road going car and it would turn it into a gorgeous monster, even the 406 and S40 which I don't consider great looking road cars, look immense in super touring form.

[SteveLevin]

With regards to racing meritocracy... which series is that? It's certainly not Formula 1. Maybe the WEC to a slight extent or the top prototypes, but not through all the classes, that's for sure.

As far as "greats" of open wheel running touring cars, history shows us that's hit and miss.

I thought the BTCC season was quite enjoyable -- of course there was whining, but that's been true in the ten years I've followed it. Someone always has an advantage, someone else is getting hosed, blah, blah. I bet if I could be bothered to collect all the various "whiner" quotes over the years and asked people to guess who said them, no one would even get 50% right.

Steve

[jimothy84]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

It'll still be a big aero-disadvantage though, with the sole purpose of marketing a newer model. For that reason I also wonder why Adam Morgan is running the A-class, wouldn't the CLA be a much better option?

The C LA wasn't available for sale in the UK when they started the build, and it would've cost considerably more!

[Andrew Abbott]

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

With regards to racing meritocracy... which series is that? It's certainly not Formula 1. Maybe the WEC to a slight extent or the top prototypes, but not through all the classes, that's for sure.

See my post above re: DTM.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

And if you want to follow a championship with the best 'driving meritocracy' in the world then you need to look no further than the DTM.

But that's another thing...

Ya exactly ! As I said, people need to see the BTCC for what it is - great entertainment. Who cares about the purity of driving calibre, it doesn't matter.

[Speed-King]

Also: Were the drivers that much better in the 90s, or was it simply that there was enough money going around to make a living of it and people that are paying to drive today would have been payed back then?

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Also: Were the drivers that much better in the 90s, or was it simply that there was enough money going around to make a living of it and people that are paying to drive today would have been payed back then?

This

[BtccLee]

This is one of those debates where all parties have to agree to disagree. The issue is, it depends what parameters you are using to measure the calibre of driver. What I personally see is a grid filled with champions and race winners of the BTCC, Clio Cup, Legends, Ginetta series, British GT4 classification, VW Racing Cup, Scottish Fiestas.

No, none of those series are world championships. But what they lack in title and stature, they make up for in actual physical, real racing. And that’s what these boys are, they are racing drivers.

No they are not of the F1 Calibre, PR dreams that fill the WEC, DTM. That’s not the point. They never intended to, they never trained to be. They’re not at that level because they never intended to be. Arguably that’s not where their talent lies. It lies in Touring Cars.

It is a different environment to Super Touring 90’s. These drivers do bring their own money. That doesn’t mean they lack talent. They may have wealthy families. I bet if you scrutinise the DTM grid you would find quite a lot of wealthy German cash flowing. To climb the junior ranks that it what you need. Still filled with a massively talented field.

Arguably the ambiance in the paddocks of the 90’s of cooperate expense, was confused for simple talent. The majority were still just Touring Car drivers but all of the manufacture expense made them appear like F1 superstars. I guarantee that the talent level was very similar.

Aside from talent… I almost, and may get shot down for this, feel it is a positive that the drivers have to go searching for sponsors and that this is such a struggle. Because the fact they have to put the effort in, to go searching for the opportunity to demonstrate their talent, proves it is something they really care about. And we will all do most things for cash. There’s very little we would actually put our own money towards. That we actually really care about enough.

[porsche962fan]

Infiniti now confirmed as RWD

[Bramzel]

http://www.touringcartimes.com/2014/...r-wheel-drive/

Could somebody clarify this bit for me:

The only exceptions on the current grid are the rear-wheel drive Audi A4s of Rob Austin Racing. The road-going car is front-wheel drive, but due to it having a longitudinally mounted engine, it wasn’t possible to build it as a front-wheel drive car due to the technical constraints of NGTC.

I find this weird, as far as I know the entire car ahead of the front window is chopped off and replaced with the NGTC-spec subframe. In this subframe multiple cars are running FWD configurations, why isn't that possible for the Audi?

[redshoes]

It's all to do with how the engine is mounted. Typically the engine will be east-west in a FWD car, and north-south in a RWD car, which is how the NGTC subframes are built.

Audi runs a north-south mounted engine with a complicated transmission running the power back to the front wheels. That just won't fit into a FWD NGTC subframes.

[Bramzel]

But isn't the idea of NGTC that such aspects are standardized? That how the original engine is mounted doesn't matter as those points are replaced with the NGTC subframe?

[gregc]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

But isn't the idea of NGTC that such aspects are standardized? That how the original engine is mounted doesn't matter as those points are replaced with the NGTC subframe?

The front subframes are different for F/RWD in NGTC. This is actually part of the controversy about "RWD advantage" - apparently the RWD setup positions the engine further back, resulting in better weight distribution (this according to Ian H of 888, who obviously has his own vested interests...)

As a rule of thumb RWD road cars have a longitudinal engine position, and FWD transverse. Audi are an exception, with the result that the Audi NGTC car ends up RWD.

[SteveLevin]

Originally Posted by AndySpeed

See my post above re: DTM.

Why would you say that DTM is any different? Did I miss where Mathias Lauda ever finished on an F3000 or GP2 podium?

Not to mention that the DTM is really a manufacturer run series where all "teams" are about as independent as an individual stone in asphalt. Doubt that? See Spain, 2007.

Steve

[TimRTC]

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

Not to mention that the DTM is really a manufacturer run series where all "teams" are about as independent as an individual stone in asphalt. Doubt that? See Spain, 2007.

I don't think they make any claims otherwise, certainly on the English language broadcasts and media reports, the teams get mentioned very rarely compared to the marques and I imagine only the most hardcore fan would even be able to tell you which driver is with which team.

DTM does have the advantage that drivers can be picked for merit over financial backing, but I think that in this past BTCC season the number of real "pay drivers" has dropped off markedly and even those who are obviously there because they picked up the tab themselves (eg. Nick Foster) have proven themselves solid competitors.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Go back to 2007 and only a handful of drivers were very good. This season is several leagues better!

[porsche962fan]

could we stop this nonsense about driver quality already and turn back to 2015 rumors please

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Not doubting they have these TBLs it's just how. Yes maybe one from Gow but then where?

One driver this year was running with a "loaned" TBL, rather than one that they or a team owned.

I always assumed it was Belcher, but it could have been someone else...

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by sceptic

One driver this year was running with a "loaned" TBL, rather than one that they or a team owned.

I always assumed it was Belcher, but it could have been someone else...

Belcher would have had the second Speedworks one I believe, as they ran two cars in 2013. Can see it being Moffat TBH.

Right now looks like thirty two entries will finally happen despite Gow wanting to keep it at thirty. I would if TBL thirty three and thirty four could end up being loaned out, if there is truly that much demand?

[RED55]

Just a quick note to point out to those confused by the RAR Audi configuration

The reason it is RWD is that there wasnt a suitable transmission avail to make it fwd , it ended up being RWD but it wasnt something that was a compromise , RAR knew full well it would end up being RWD thus giving an advantage but in the first evolution of NGTC the RWD engine position was hopelessly wrong and hence the rework in 2012 to accomodate the BMWs

The FWD NGTC concept is restrictive now because the engine position is fixed actually higher than in the standard road car on some models so the centre of gravity is poor. The RWD NGTC BMW position is only where it is in a road car ,however the car that is really outside the ruleset is the AUDI as in the road car the engine position is well forward, so RAR audi is really a special exception and it is those cars that the FWD teams should be upset about not the BMW

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by RED55

The FWD NGTC concept is restrictive now because the engine position is fixed actually higher than in the standard road car on some models so the centre of gravity is poor. The RWD NGTC BMW position is only where it is in a road car ,however the car that is really outside the ruleset is the AUDI as in the road car the engine position is well forward, so RAR audi is really a special exception and it is those cars that the FWD teams should be upset about not the BMW

That's very interesting. I wasn't aware of that at all. And I guess the reason 888 are shining a light on the BMW is because [it's quick] and they would rather somebody else spend money on redeveloping a car to meet a change in regs than themselves ?

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Belcher would have had the second Speedworks one I believe, as they ran two cars in 2013. Can see it being Moffat TBH.

Right now looks like thirty two entries will finally happen despite Gow wanting to keep it at thirty. I would if TBL thirty three and thirty four could end up being loaned out, if there is truly that much demand?

I thought Moffat got the TBL that would of been Andy Neate's? Wasn't the last deal to be out in place was Lea Woods in terms of entries? I note that Lea states 'all being well they will be back in 2015', though that could be dependant on backing as opposed to securing a TBL or both!