Group A Ford Sierra RS500

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It may already have been mentioned earlier in the thread (or another one!) but there were intricate differences in the build of the cars, and yes I think that budgets may have been slightly different priorities.

I mean the ATCC being Australia's big series with a fair amount of money spent compared to a pre set budget that Eggenberger and Rouse would have been working to even with Ford support.

Weren't the DJR cars running a different, but still homolgated, injection or Turbo system than the European cars as well?

The DJR Cars ran a Bosch Motronic 1.4 ECU package which they managed to secure the source code for, for full programmability.... they also homologated a Harrop-sourced rear axle/diff/crown wheel for local use, rather than pay 4x as much for the European version....

[Jesper OH]

Hiked the following from here post #2016:
http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...67601&page=135

Originally Posted by drbob

It looks a great job mtpanorama. thanks very much.It is being raced at Phillip Island,driven by Chris Dubois.After Bathurst it went back to Andy Rouse in the UK and was entered by Ford France in the French TCC in 1988, mostly driven by Alain Ferte. It won its class and came second in the championship. Jean Paul Becker then owned it and raced it in Group A (?) in France after that. The car went through several owners including Martin Johnston in the UK before coming back to Australia.

Sorry for doing that, but it had an interesting early owner history that would fit this thread very nicely.
Looking through my selection of 1989 Autosports there's a very clear reference to Andy Rouse as the builder, Ford France as 1988 entrant and Alain Ferté as driver when Mark Rennison made his 1989 BTCC debut with this car.

Jesper

[Jesper OH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6fnrP92YOg

A link to Tim Harvey presenting and testing his old car from sometime in the 2005 or there about. Interesting listeling and providing a very clear chassis number about 3 minutes into the almost 11 minute run-time:

ARE RSC 0389

Does anyone know if this was Harvey's winning car from Macau 1989 too?

Jesper

[bent65]

Originally Posted by chunterer

It may already have been mentioned earlier in the thread (or another one!) but there were intricate differences in the build of the cars, and yes I think that budgets may have been slightly different priorities.

I mean the ATCC being Australia's big series with a fair amount of money spent compared to a pre set budget that Eggenberger and Rouse would have been working to even with Ford support.

Weren't the DJR cars running a different, but still homolgated, injection or Turbo system than the European cars as well?

DJR took delivery of two shells in late 87 and built them from ground up. One left and one RHD. There parts originally came out of Rouse until a falling out meant doing everything locally. Turned out not a bad thing!!

OXO motorsport built 2 cars and a spare shell also late'87. These were Rouse sourced and supported.

When you consider how far from where the factory support was I think the Aussie teams did well in the early days. The DJR cars proved themselves early on even with huge Shell $$. The OXO cars were also very fast if a bit fragile. Miedecke passed the lead Texaco car going up mountain striaght and lead the race for quite a while before the (european invention) pace car trapped him in the pits.

I might be a bit biased but I would have loved to see Mad Andy with a better budget and not either, recycling parts that would eventually let him down or running second fiddle in the Mobil Team. Watching how he operated a Sierra that was dialled in was great!!

The ATCC cars were running the same specification as all other Group A cars around the world. With the exception of the locally produced Harrop Diff and later Motec for Bondy in '88.

[chunterer]

Thanks for that summary bent65, very interesting and informative.

Andy Rouse must've made an awful lot of money out of Cosworth builds/parts, much more than I originally thought!!

If as has been reckoned ARE was responsible for something like 30 cars between '97-90 ('91 even?) it sounds like a lot of them were ATCC bound!!

Think it's time we started adding to the Chassis list in the Archive section.

We've got some Rouse chassis numbers, the rest can be educated guesses according to season and other drivers, and can be confirmed as we go along. Ditto with Eggenberger and DJR cars I suppose?

[GBRM]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Andy Rouse must've made an awful lot of money out of Cosworth builds/parts, much more than I originally thought!!

If as has been reckoned ARE was responsible for something like 30 cars between '97-90 ('91 even?) it sounds like a lot of them were ATCC bound!!

You should see his house in Ascot if you want to know how much money?!

Andy always was very good and well-organized, plus he had a great reputation - I don't recall anyone every querying the legality of a Rouse-built car, unlike others we could mention.

[bent65]

Originally Posted by GBRM

You should see his house in Ascot if you want to know how much money?!

Andy always was very good and well-organized, plus he had a great reputation - I don't recall anyone every querying the legality of a Rouse-built car, unlike others we could mention.

I dont believe this to be any reflection on Rouse, but The OXO team was excluded from results at one round of the ATCC in '87 for a turbo irregularity. The post mortem of it all seemed to be scrutineers not being up to speed as they were fresh turbos supplied by Rouse from UK and were deemed legal in UK. A shame really as Miedecke finished second from memory.

Don Smith (OXO) was the first person to bring the group A Cosworth Sierras to OZ. I spoke to him a while ago and he said he brought out 5 shells and supplied 2 to DJR and used the other 3 himself, but I havent confirmed this.

I have Chassis/motorsport numbers for 2 of these cars and they are consecutive numbers. A register seems like a great idea. I would imagine Rouse would have bought batches of shells?

[GTRMagic]

I thought Mr Smith's small squad built 6 shells into race cars for their own use... the original 2 Oxo cars for Mr Miedecke & Mr Giddings... the new one built in '87 after Mr Smith's Sandown roll.. another for Mr Bagnall and another for Mr Miedecke after the Lakeside fireball, and that yellow one for Mr Waldock...

I didnt think Mr Smith had supplied shells to DJR

[bent65]

You're correct about the 6 cars all up over the course of a few years GTR, except that Don Smith was more or less retired after '87. I have a mid '87 RCN article with great photos of the OXO workshop and the two race cars are there and a bare shell painted up ready if needed. As it turned out it was needed after Sandown rollover. This 3rd car had a slightly different roll cage configuration.
Andy Miedecke and Don debuted the new shell at Bathurst (where they took it up to the Texaco) and these were the only 3 cars originally built in '87. (Incidentally there were only the 4 sierras raced in Australia in pre-RS500 trim. 2xOXO 2xDJR)

Don Smith retired after '87. Don was meant to keep a car at the end of the year but unfortunately it was rolled at Sandown. Mad Andy took up the mantle for '88 and it was now called Miedecke Motorsport. They had Ross Stone as manager and built a second car for Bagnell. They retained some OXO sponsorship.

Unfortunately the red OXO car that lead Bathurst in '87 was destroyed in the Lakeside fire in '89

The other, (and only surviving) red OXO car was then used by Colin Bond for '88 ATCC rounds giving him 3rd place and won the AMSCAR Championship. He still holds one of the quickest Sierra laps at Amaroo which I think is not bad for a car built in '86.

I havent been able to confirm if Don Smith sourced the shells for DJR but in an interview I read Dick confirms he was using all Rouse bits at the start. Don had been the first to go to England in mid'86 and firm up a deal.

As I said Don told me that he did supply the shells to Dick in late '86. I had hoped to compare a few things with Andy Loyd as he has DJR 1 (Rouse sourced shell)which was built around the same time as the OXO cars however DJR built their own cages and used their own Chassis #s so other than the fact they are both Motorsport shells I wouldnt think there would be any Rouse tell tale signs??

Sorry for banging on but if anyone can fill in missing pieces??

[bdwoody]

martin labatts may be able to fill in some gaps on this ,as he has owned a few of the original rouse cars including the no:3 harvey car further up this page .i will give him a nudge ....

[chunterer]

Ok guys n gals I've set up the Archive thread:

Please see guidelines within on how and what to post!! We want factual based info only in here Chassis numbers, year built, drivers, sponsors/colours, results subsequent owners etc (in absence of a confirmed chassis educated guesswork is ok based on say sister cars. I.E. We know Tim Harveys '89 chassis number but we don't yet know Laurence Bristow's, that sort of thing we can confirm as we develop it.)

Please note that the info I have provided is an example only and not altogether correct!!

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114111

Look forward to your contributions

Main, general discussions to continue in the main thread though please!!

[bdwoody]

martin still owns the bristow car so any info needed on that is easy to find .

[Jesper OH]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

martin still owns the bristow car so any info needed on that is easy to find .

Just for the record! Bristow's 89-90 Labatt's car was also his 1988 CAM Shipping car here seen as #44?:
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

Jesper

[martinlabatts]

Originally Posted by Jesper OH

Just for the record! Bristow's 89-90 Labatt's car was also his 1988 CAM Shipping car here seen as #44?:
http://homepage.mac.com/frank_de_jon...lverstone.html

Jesper

the 88 cam shipping car was a different car,

the 89/ 90 labatts harvey and bristow cars where new built cars from new shells by andy rouse for 89 season with a seven figure sponcership fund the deal was two supply and run the two cars for two seasons

i know this from tim harvey and andy rouse,

a friend of mine still owns the 88 cam shipping sierra that lawrence bristow used in 88 btcc season,

chassie number ARE RSC 0388

the main difference is that the 88 rouse cars had ali cages and these as we all know where outlawed and since by the time this happened the cars where moved on to there new owners so most have bolt in steel cages now fitted


SOME CARS I HAVE OWNED OVER THE YEARS


ROUSE CARS

chassie ARE RSC0587
chassie ARE RSC0389
chassie ARE RSC0489

THESE CODE = ANDY ROUSE ENGINEERING ROUSE SPORT COSWORTH 03 = THIRD CAR BUILT 87
=1987 YEAR BUILD


GRAHAM GOODE CAR

GGR001

EGGENBERGER RS500

CHASSIE 99269 MY OLD CAR

P.S THE 87 EGGENBERGER CAR WHERE 99261, NO6 CAR
NO7 CAR 99262, N012 CAR ( SPARE) 99269

ALL 87 CARS

88 CARS WHERE ETCC CARS

EGMO 99267
EGMO 99268 THIS ONE WROTE OFF AND CHASSIE NUMBER RE-USED BY EGGENBERGER
EGMO 99269 LUDWIG CAR

24HR SPA WINNING EGGENBERGER CAR WAS EGMO 99268 A NEW CAR WITH THE 88 NUMBER, THIS CAR WAS IN EGMO SHOWROOM FOR OVER 15 YEARS INTILL SOLD A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK

ALL EGMO CUSTOMER CARS LIKE THE LATER ALAN MOFFOT ONES HAVE DIFFERENT CHASSIE NUMBERS

STARTING WITH EGMO 89 01 ECT

MARTIN

WORKS EGGENBERGER CAR ALL HAD JUST THE EGMO 99??? NUMBERS ABOVE

[GBRM]

Now you're just showing off Martin!! Out of all the Cosworths you've had, which has had the most difficult bonnet pins??
In all seriousness, silly question, but did they all have the same pins?

[bdwoody]

i would say it was the harvey car as that forgot to do themselfs shut at least once .....didn't they martin ...lol

[martinlabatts]

ROUSE/ EGGNEBERGER / AND GRAHAM GOODE ALL HAD THEM IN DIFFERENT PLACES

ITS LITTLE DETAILS THAT TELL YOU FROM JUST SOME PICTURES WHO BUILT THE CAR

still loads of realy nice sierra that are just missing,

some may turn up but most are scrapped after being turned into rally cars

evan in a small place like the uk,

we lost Mike Smiths ex DJR car from 89 and Rob Gravetts btcc winning 1990 cars two name just two that i would love to find!

[bent65]

Funny you should mention bonnet pins. An interesting peculiarity of the 87 OXO built cars is that they had two pins at the back of the rear hatch which had to be dissused when the RS500 was Homologated and the lower spoiler fitted.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by martinlabatts

the 88 cam shipping car was a different car,

the 89/ 90 labatts harvey and bristow cars where new built cars from new shells by andy rouse for 89 season with a seven figure sponcership fund the deal was two supply and run the two cars for two seasons

i know this from tim harvey and andy rouse,

a friend of mine still owns the 88 cam shipping sierra that lawrence bristow used in 88 btcc season,

chassie number ARE RSC 0388

the main difference is that the 88 rouse cars had ali cages and these as we all know where outlawed and since by the time this happened the cars where moved on to there new owners so most have bolt in steel cages now fitted


SOME CARS I HAVE OWNED OVER THE YEARS


ROUSE CARS

chassie ARE RSC0587
chassie ARE RSC0389
chassie ARE RSC0489

THESE CODE = ANDY ROUSE ENGINEERING ROUSE SPORT COSWORTH 03 = THIRD CAR BUILT 87
=1987 YEAR BUILD


GRAHAM GOODE CAR

GGR001

EGGENBERGER RS500

CHASSIE 99269 MY OLD CAR

P.S THE 87 EGGENBERGER CAR WHERE 99261, NO6 CAR
NO7 CAR 99262, N012 CAR ( SPARE) 99269

ALL 87 CARS

88 CARS WHERE ETCC CARS

EGMO 99267
EGMO 99268 THIS ONE WROTE OFF AND CHASSIE NUMBER RE-USED BY EGGENBERGER
EGMO 99269 LUDWIG CAR

24HR SPA WINNING EGGENBERGER CAR WAS EGMO 99268 A NEW CAR WITH THE 88 NUMBER, THIS CAR WAS IN EGMO SHOWROOM FOR OVER 15 YEARS INTILL SOLD A COUPLE OF YEARS BACK

ALL EGMO CUSTOMER CARS LIKE THE LATER ALAN MOFFOT ONES HAVE DIFFERENT CHASSIE NUMBERS

STARTING WITH EGMO 89 01 ECT

MARTIN

WORKS EGGENBERGER CAR ALL HAD JUST THE EGMO 99??? NUMBERS ABOVE

Thanks for all this Martin, very informative.

Mind you, you could've saved me a job and posted most of it straight into the Archive thread!!!!!

[William Dale Jr]

Something I just remembered. The Bristow's CAM Shipping RS500 was for sale in Autosport in late 1988 and the ad said that the car had received a brand new shell after the Snetterton round. I wonder if it kept the same chassis number?

Also, some corrections for the Chassis Archive thread:

ARE RSC 0587
This was car #17 at the 1987 Spa 24 Hrs and #9 at Bathurst and Calder that year, not chassis 0287 or 0387.

ARE RSC 0188
If this is Rouse's 88 Kaliber car then yes, it is the car driven by Brock for most of 1989. However, it was not this car that was re-shelled, it was the other ex-Rouse Mobil Sierra that may have been re-shelled. This was the car Gravett drove in 1988 in ICS colours; possibly Pete Hall's car from the year before?

[chunterer]

Thanks William, i'll alter it later today!

[KA]

Originally Posted by William Dale Jr

. This was the car Gravett drove in 1988 in ICS colours; possibly Pete Hall's car from the year before?

That makes sense, as I seem to remember Gravett (and Mark Hales on occasion)took over the drive in the #10 ICS car after Hall stood down from the drive sometime around mid-season?

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by KA

...and some of the rare ones- Mark Rennison, Stuart Donnan (think his was the ex-JQF/Fina car?),

It was, later appeared in Thundersaloons and was confirmed as such.

Sean Walker's FAI car also appeared there, with Stuart Jackson.

Nigel Mustill / Brian Chatfield shared an ex-Drury car, but don't know which one - possibly revealed later..... I haven't read far enough ahead in the re-issues of Rolling Thunder yet!

[RSRoy]

Just found out this thread and I had to register here.

If anybody is needing pics of certain cars give me a shout. I think I got about 700 pics from RS500 touringcars from over the years.

Posting them all up here would be a bit of a long job though.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by RSRoy

Just found out this thread and I had to register here.

If anybody is needing pics of certain cars give me a shout. I think I got about 700 pics from RS500 touringcars from over the years.

Posting them all up here would be a bit of a long job though.

Welcome RSRoy, good man, thanks for the offer.

Whilst i'm sure many of us will contact readily pm (private message) you, maybe you could post a small selection, spread over a few posts so we can get a flavour?

Both 'the best' and 'the rarest' always grab us enthusiast's attention!!!