2024 Season - News and Rumours

[Richard C]

I had my appendix removed about a year or so ago. I was up and around the next day (Carolos was in the paddock during the race) felt pretty much back to normal within a week or so, but I also wasn't expecting to be pulling significant G forces so quickly after surgery! I find it hard to imagine any doctor signing off on him racing soon. It is abdominal surgery (even if done via laparoscopic procedure).

Richard

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I had my appendix removed about a year or so ago. I was up and around the next day (Carolos was in the paddock during the race) felt pretty much back to normal within a week or so, but I also wasn't expecting to be pulling significant G forces so quickly after surgery! I find it hard to imagine any doctor signing off on him racing soon. It is abdominal surgery (even if done via laparoscopic procedure).

Richard

Alex Albon could be taken as a good example. He missed the 2022 Italian GP due to Appendicitis during the race weekend, dropping out after P3 (Nyck de Vries doing a late sub role for qualy and the race)

Alex was back on duty for the next race in Singapore, albeit 3 weeks later. However Alex suffered complications with his surgery which likely affected his recovery.... IIRC he suffered post-op anaesthetic complications which led to respiratory failure. He was put on a ventilator and transferred to intensive care for a couple of days. His return at Singapore obviously entailed one of the tougher races due to the humidity and heavy braking and associated g-forces.

I recall it was a late call for him to return at Singapore, but his recovery once he left hospital was better than anticipated so he raced..

[Mike Harte]

Massa has filed a lawsuit in a London High Court against the FIA, FOM and Mr Ecclestone over the 2008 Singapore GP.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...e-gp/10586538/

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Massa has filed a lawsuit in a London High Court against the FIA, FOM and Mr Ecclestone over the 2008 Singapore GP.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...e-gp/10586538/

From the article...

"Recent events naturally demonstrate that issues of transparency and integrity in Formula 1 remain relevant, and it is clear that serious work is needed to restore its credibility and long-term future," the statement concluded.

Sure, makes sense. He is fighting the good fight for all of us! Massa is Batman! Fighting for justice!

Reportedly, Massa is seeking compensation worth between £60-150 million.

Oh wait. He wants money.

Richard

[Greem]

Ah, this old chestnut again.

Felipe baby, calm down. There's no guarantee that if Piquet hadn't crashed that you'd have gone on to win the WDC. The only certainties are that (a) he did, and (b) you didn't.

Nullifying the results of the 2008 Singapore race means that the rest of the season would also need to be nullified, because you can't fiddle with time. And that means that Hamilton would still be champion, and by only one point. How ironic.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ah, this old chestnut again.

Felipe baby, calm down. There's no guarantee that if Piquet hadn't crashed that you'd have gone on to win the WDC. The only certainties are that (a) he did, and (b) you didn't.

Nullifying the results of the 2008 Singapore race means that the rest of the season would also need to be nullified, because you can't fiddle with time. And that means that Hamilton would still be champion, and by only one point. How ironic.

Surely even if it had been invstigatd at the time they wouldnt nullify the race because one car / team cheated. They would have simply DSQd Renault / Alonso. Net result of that would have been to elevate Rosberg to the win, with Lewis 2nd and Glock 3rd. Lewis would have won the title by a greater margin.

Simples.

[steve_r]

Is he also going to sue his own team for sending him out of the pits with the fuel line still attached:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ35OQnr_mQ

I say this in jest of course. There is no doubt that F1 handled the whole crash gate saga terribly. But the time to bring this action was when it was first announced, and not now all these years later.

What next? The WDC 2021 title being decided in the courts in the year 2040?

Is there still time for Damon to get the 1994 WDC?

Can the Schumacher family try to overturn 1997?

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Is he also going to sue his own team for sending him out of the pits with the fuel line still attached:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ35OQnr_mQ

I say this in jest of course. There is no doubt that F1 handled the whole crash gate saga terribly. But the time to bring this action was when it was first announced, and not now all these years later.

What next? The WDC 2021 title being decided in the courts in the year 2040?

Is there still time for Damon to get the 1994 WDC?

Can the Schumacher family try to overturn 1997?

And the main Architects of this episode are back in F1 ......

[chillibowl]

no doubt this will be the unpopular opinion, but Charlie and Max before their passing's had admitted to knowing about the cheating prior to the season's results being solidified and Bernie has admitted to having the investigation delayed in order to protect the sport.

im not saying change the results but maybe i am...that part i dont have an answer to but i do know that this thing has been ignored for too long and cheating and coverups undermine the credibility of the sport.

this is about future governance as much as it about correcting the mistakes of the past.

to each their own as always, but imo Massa deserves his day in court and the rest of us deserve a higher standard of governance.

[Mike Harte]

But as pointed out above, if they had nullified the race, Hamilton would still have won the championship, and as Greem also says, if they had nullified the rest of the season, the result would have been the same.

It would appear that someone is egging on Massa to spend a fortune on, what I would regard, a waste of time and court resources. I can't see how he can win, especially as Mr E, if he is called and he appears, will just say that he can't remember; that he's an old man and his memory is fading.

Also, the judge that hears this case initially may be inclined to say that this all happened more than 6 years ago, so it's out of time. Massa may try the argument that he has only commenced the action now because certain information that he wasn't aware of only surfaced recently - this is in regards to the alleged conversation with Mr E who claims that he cannot recall - but I think that this only has a very slim chance of succeeding.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

no doubt this will be the unpopular opinion, but Charlie and Max before their passing's had admitted to knowing about the cheating prior to the season's results being solidified and Bernie has admitted to having the investigation delayed in order to protect the sport.

im not saying change the results but maybe i am...that part i dont have an answer to but i do know that this thing has been ignored for too long and cheating and coverups undermine the credibility of the sport.

this is about future governance as much as it about correcting the mistakes of the past.

to each their own as always, but imo Massa deserves his day in court and the rest of us deserve a higher standard of governance.

I absolutely agree with this. If I were Massa this is the narrative I would push. That it would be to ensure proper governance. A few months ago the valid questions might have been "Is the current governance OK? Has enough time and leadership changed that it is no longer a potential problem?" But then MBS has managed to create his own issues by allegedly trying to stick his finger into race results. I wonder if the recent MBS allegations became a trigger for Massa's team to pull the trigger. As they can point to what is going on inside the FIA to say "See, it is still happening!". Problem is... Massa is not the injured party in recent events.

I think where Massa is screwing up is that he is asking for financial compensation. Maybe that is a requirement for the type of legal complaint. But I would say... "I am not here to overturn prior championships. I am not here to just grab money. I am here to ensure things are fixed for the next guy"

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But as pointed out above, if they had nullified the race, Hamilton would still have won the championship, and as Greem also says, if they had nullified the rest of the season, the result would have been the same.

If he is looking to overturn the championship, etc. I agree 100% for all of the reasons you mention. If he is pushing for improvements to the system then he still has an argument. Just because in the end, it wouldn't have impacted the championship, that doesn't negate the fact that they knew something was wrong and they covered it up.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

It would appear that someone is egging on Massa to spend a fortune on, what I would regard, a waste of time and court resources. I can't see how he can win, especially as Mr E, if he is called and he appears, will just say that he can't remember; that he's an old man and his memory is fading.

I agree someone (his legal team?) is advocating for this to move forward. And money is the driver.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Also, the judge that hears this case initially may be inclined to say that this all happened more than 6 years ago, so it's out of time. Massa may try the argument that he has only commenced the action now because certain information that he wasn't aware of only surfaced recently - this is in regards to the alleged conversation with Mr E who claims that he cannot recall - but I think that this only has a very slim chance of succeeding.

In the end, I don't see this succeeding for the reasons you call out. He has an exceeding difficult challenge of proving any/all of this in court.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

By claiming, what is it, $60 odd millions "compensation" for something that he possibly would never have achieved, he has lost the moral high ground. And I am not sure that attempting to, let's say, clean up the way that F1 operates, in a London court is likely to succeed.

The FIA is based in the EU and FOM is now owned by a company based in the USA. So, what jurisdiction would a London court have, especially as the UK is no longer a member of the EU. And as this concerns a sporting matter, I would have thought that his legal action should be heard in the Court of Sport Arbitration in Lausanne, Switzerland.

[TrapezeArtist]

When Massa first came into F1 as the"wild child" at Sauber I defended him against some people's criticism. Since then he has gradually transformed into a petulant little boy who has lost his grasp on reason.

I can't help feeling that there is someone behind the scenes pressing his buttons, probably his lawyers. If he stands any hope of getting anything out of this at all, it will be by way of an out-of-court settlement to stop him muck-raking.

I thought this little saga had gone away but perhaps Massa (or his advisors) see the current Red Bull and MBS controversies as an opportunity to put the boot in.

[chillibowl]

with respect tho, this really isnt about Massa.

imo, this is about the obligation that those entrusted to run sport do so with some measure of integrity, to run it fairly and openly, and when cheating is discovered to investigate it immediately and without reservation.

its about what happens the next time a close season unfolds.

by not confronting these shortcomings, whats to stop them from just changing the rules with a couple of laps left in the ultimate race of a tight season?

[Greem]

Also worth remembering that Massa suffered an appalling frontal lobe injury with the infamous errant heave spring, and that can result in behavioural changes and changes in character & personality.

I'm definitely not saying that's the sole cause here but it could contribute to the difference between Mr Affable, Dignified and Honourable, compared to where we are now.

[PanozDP01]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ah, this old chestnut again.

Felipe baby, calm down. There's no guarantee that if Piquet hadn't crashed that you'd have gone on to win the WDC. The only certainties are that (a) he did, and (b) you didn't.

Nullifying the results of the 2008 Singapore race means that the rest of the season would also need to be nullified, because you can't fiddle with time. And that means that Hamilton would still be champion, and by only one point. How ironic.

If the FIA knows a race has been corrupted, the policy is that the races points have to be nullified. At the time in 2008, the FIA said they didn't know. And points weren't nullified. But it turns out, they did know. And full points were awarded.

[Sodemo]

When my wife had her C-section she was told she wasn't able to drive for 4 weeks. Perhaps not as serious an operation having your appendix out, but considering the potential danger I would be surprised to see him back in the car for at least 3-4 weeks.

[crmalcolm]

On the other side, the standard medical advice is based on a cautious recovery time and includes individuals who could be considered as being in a lesser physical condition.

An F1 driver is going into the operation in a much higher physical condition than most people, which typically improves recovery time. There is also a different imperative for a return to activity than most people, so I would expect a much shorter post-op recovery time.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

On the other side, the standard medical advice is based on a cautious recovery time and includes individuals who could be considered as being in a lesser physical condition.

An F1 driver is going into the operation in a much higher physical condition than most people, which typically improves recovery time. There is also a different imperative for a return to activity than most people, so I would expect a much shorter post-op recovery time.

That and appendix removal can be done as out-patient. It is not complex and can be done quickly and sent home. Asked a surgical nurse friend, 1 week for regular folks is considered a lengthy recovery for it barring any complications and given he was trackside and standing next day she assumed none. 2 weeks if laproscopically done should be fine for a professional driver as long as no bruising and the belts. But we will see in 7 days time

[E.B]

I suspect it will probably be a case of Carlos does P1 on Friday and reviews the situation after the session. Ollie Bearman will be in the background available if required.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

When my wife had her C-section she was told she wasn't able to drive for 4 weeks. Perhaps not as serious an operation having your appendix out, but considering the potential danger I would be surprised to see him back in the car for at least 3-4 weeks.

This is simple Keyhole if a specialist is on hand Odd that the Albon op turned onto such an epic - complications are always just around the corner with procedures. I can imagine Ferrari have access to the very best surgeon in the region

[Plantagenet]

Re. Sainz, it will likely depend if he had keyhole or an old-fashioned open procedure (which may need to be done if they caught if late and it had perforated). If he had an open procedure, that's where you have the issues of a longer period off as the risk of the wound not healing and herniating is higher. Think of the G forces in a F1 car, coupled with the force to stomp on the brake pedal and you have the worst possible circumstances for wound issues.

FWIW, I think be he'll there in Melborune

[GTRMagic]

Is it correct that Mr Bearmann is still in high school??
There is a video kicking around the socials where he got a standing ovation from an entire school load of kids…!

[Greem]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Is it correct that Mr Bearmann is still in high school??
There is a video kicking around the socials where he got a standing ovation from an entire school load of kids…!

That wasn't him, that was a 15 year old Irish boxer called Tadhg O'Donnell (That's "Tye", not Tad-h-g) who won a European weight category gold medal a couple of years back.