Grand Am making its move, is it time for ALMS to make its move?

[Birddog07]

The Shiden competes in GT300 (has to be de-tuned) and I would think everything would be more based off of GT500 cars, if not they may aswell adopt GT2 as their top class.

Anyways, a DP as seen could compete in GT300, but a GT300 car not neccessaraly in GA.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

It's sad that the ACO/ALMS, which is a better overall series I think, haven't done anything about GT3 cars and production based LMP's. Think of the CLK's and 911 GT1's back at LeMans, prototypes but anyone could easily recognize them.

I would argue something like the R15 is recognisable as an Audi more so than a Riley DP with manufacturers headlights.

Then there's the point major manufacturers promote their race models so extensively they become familiar in no time at all.

Ratel subscribers to the theory punters prefare recognisable GT models but history suggests it is manufacturer promotion that differentiates something like the ALMS from the rest.

[Birddog07]

Maybe to the casual race fan, but the casual every day person just sees an odd looking (to them) race car.

[JAG]

You have to know your target audience, there must be something in the fact manufacturers are investing evermore in prototypes and F1 while the 'recognisable' models used in NASCAR and touring cars are becoming increasingly spec with the focus on teams and drivers.

GT's and rallying seem to be two of the few production based racing series that still retain strong manufacturer support and brand loyalty from fans.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by JAG

You have to know your target audience, there must be something in the fact manufacturers are investing evermore in prototypes and F1 while the 'recognisable' models used in NASCAR and touring cars are becoming increasingly spec with the focus on teams and drivers.

Which in some circles is believed to be part of the recent downturn in NASCAR's popularity! They are not 'recognisable' as the product, they are cookie cutter cars with decals and a different engine.

GT's and rallying seem to be two of the few production based racing series that still retain strong manufacturer support and brand loyalty from fans.

'Brand' loyalty requires a 'brand' to actually be running, not just putting stickers on a chassis and push it as their 'brand'!



L.P.

[TF110]

I've always thought of Nascar as a joke when they say 'Stock car' racing. What's stock? Their rolling billboards with the same body and the same engine just with different makes.

About the Apple Shiden, I realize it isn't near the power of the DP cars, but I'm just pointing out that the relation between it and the DP cars is what got me thinking why doesn't G.A. just try to adopt the SuperGT rules. Then when I heard of SuperGT and DTM possibly combining in the future (who knows if that'll happen) I said to myself that G.A. should be jumping on this bandwagon and promoting themselves as willing to make this combo happen, and have it on U.S. soil.

[6157]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

'Brand' loyalty requires a 'brand' to actually be running, not just putting stickers on a chassis and push it as their 'brand'!



L.P.

All those NASCAR fans must be going to the races for that awesome t-shirt tent.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by 6157

All those NASCAR fans must be going to the races for that awesome t-shirt tent.

Nascar has achieved success. Whether it be because it's a bunch of simple racing- circles that're easy to watch, rules easy to understand, or whatever; Nascar works, much better than other motorsports in America, at least in terms of fans.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by 6157

All those NASCAR fans must be going to the races for that awesome t-shirt tent.

Its WWE with Wheels, look at any NASCAR Board, the entire graduating class at MIT has higher IQ's than the majority of the NASCAR fan base. Also look at people of walmart dot com, there's a major chunk of your fan base.

Also the Woman they showed on the NASCAR documentary ton CNBC, was obsessed with Tony Stewart, not the fact he drives Pontiacs or Chevys. Fans don't like Jimmy Johnson not because he wins too much but because he's from California, just like Jeff Gordon....

So do they go for the T-shirt booths? Not really, do they tailgate like they do for College Football games, yes! Do they drink mucho Beer, yes! Why do you think there so many Beer Wagons in NASCAR? Kinda reminds me of the Tea Bagger/Party Movement.

I wonder if they wanna deport Juan Pablo Montoya?

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Just a random question, would a DTM round in the United States actually be a success? I remember when FIA GT came to the United States in the late 90's. I even attended the 1998 Homestead race, and the crowd was dissapointing to say the least.

The crowd at Laguna was pretty good and that's one of the reasons why Benz put Greg Moore into the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCBx...eature=related Is this 1998 however (to show the crowd) but in 1997 they did put Greg Moore in the car. He also drove at Sebring...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

It's sad that the ACO/ALMS, which is a better overall series I think, haven't done anything about GT3 cars and production based LMP's. Think of the CLK's and 911 GT1's back at LeMans, prototypes but anyone could easily recognize them.

Remember "the Corvette LMP" illustration from 2007?

[Birddog07]

Yes I do, and cars like that, the CLK, and GT1 should be what LMP's should look like. Production based prototypes. With no roadcar homoligation needed, non-manufactuer LMP chasis manufactuers could still make something as long as it looks production based enough. Formula could be just like the new P1/2 with pro/pro-am drivers, production modified/production engines, etc.

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

Its WWE with Wheels, look at any NASCAR Board, the entire graduating class at MIT has higher IQ's than the majority of the NASCAR fan base. Also look at people of walmart dot com, there's a major chunk of your fan base.

Which gives NASCAR a larger potential base of fans- swelled by trend followers. IMO, NASCAR's future remains with sponsors who crave the large reach NASCAR offers (for the time being anyway). Auto manufacturers will insist on more relevance between the sport and their products. I don't see NASCAR changing enough to satisfy the manufacturers, especially when we're talking about global brands- like Ford and Chevrolet.

[fieldodreams79]

Funny that conversations about making American "fender car" racing more successful in this forum results in NASCAR bashing from haters every time. While I have generally moved away from NASCAR, for various reasons, one must look at what has made the Cup series the most successful, longest running national post war series, instead of bashing the series and their fans every single chance you get.

[fiend540]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Funny that conversations about making American "fender car" racing more successful in this forum results in NASCAR bashing from haters every time. While I have generally moved away from NASCAR, for various reasons, one must look at what has made the Cup series the most successful, longest running national post war series, instead of bashing the series and their fans every single chance you get.

No man, you must assume that every nascar/circle track fan is an uneducated, beer swilling redneck.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Yes I do, and cars like that, the CLK, and GT1 should be what LMP's should look like. Production based prototypes. With no roadcar homoligation needed, non-manufactuer LMP chasis manufactuers could still make something as long as it looks production based enough. Formula could be just like the new P1/2 with pro/pro-am drivers, production modified/production engines, etc.

The plans in 2007 were certainly close to the late 90s GT-protos but manufacturers said no.

[TF110]

Some are better at it than others, but on topic, I don't like Nascar as much as Sports car racing, yet i still watch it. It amazes me how guys can do 150mph around a turn with 10 or 15 other within 50 feet of them. I guess there's skills in every form of motorsport. 'Oval' racing might look simple but it surely isn't. The fact Montoya is doing kind of good should show you that someone from F1 ..in this case a race winner, can't just overtake Nascar. Maybe if he had Jimmie Johnson's car and team he could, but you get the picture. Nothing is easy.

I'm all for G.A. to improve, and I hope they look to SuperGT and DTM for this.

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by JAG

You have to know your target audience, there must be something in the fact manufacturers are investing evermore in prototypes and F1

They are?

What manufacturers are investing in prototypes? Audi? They've cut their program back. Peugeot is a given with the lemans connection, but who else? Porsche killed their program, as did Honda, and there hasn't been any other big manufacturer backed effort in years.

F1? Honda bailed, Toyota Bailed, BMW bailed, Renault always seems to have one foot out the door and would probably be just as happy with a customer engine arrangement.

while the 'recognisable' models used in NASCAR and touring cars are becoming increasingly spec with the focus on teams and drivers.

Global economy sucks. When you can't turn a profit, spending hundreds of millions of dollars for questionable advertising/racing costs doesn't fly with publically traded companies. Nascar closed down their specs to limit how much they had to rely on manufacturers.

GT's and rallying seem to be two of the few production based racing series that still retain strong manufacturer support and brand loyalty from fans.

Again, really. the WRC? Subaru bailed, Skoda bailed, Mitsu bailed, Peugeot bailed, Ford almost bailed out a few years back. Basically it's down to Ford and Citroen, with citroen being ahead by miles. Yea, BMW is sorta there with a Mini effort in the next two years.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

Funny that conversations about making American "fender car" racing more successful in this forum results in NASCAR bashing from haters every time. While I have generally moved away from NASCAR, for various reasons, one must look at what has made the Cup series the most successful, longest running national post war series, instead of bashing the series and their fans every single chance you get.

Absolutely, and I for one am getting really tired of inane suggestions to the contrary by people who somehow think they're scoring intellectual points by doing it. Well, you're not. This thread has nothing to do with NASCAR so keep on topic and stop trying to entertain by merely exposing your prejudices.

[LagunaSnaka]

Originally Posted by dj4monie

The crowd at Laguna was pretty good and that's one of the reasons why Benz put Greg Moore into the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPCBx...eature=related Is this 1998 however (to show the crowd) but in 1997 they did put Greg Moore in the car. He also drove at Sebring...

I was at the 1997 and 1998 FIA GT races at Laguna. 1997 was easily biggest crowd I've ever seen for a Sportscar race at Laguna. (actually remember getting caught in a traffic jam on the way in on race day.) The 1997 grid was chocked full of factory teams. (1998 the grid was a bit smaller and in rained off and on that weekend.)

Exotic prototypes, factory teams, professional drivers and an easy to understand format bring out the fans. I wish we could have something like this today...

[6157]

Originally Posted by deggis

The plans in 2007 were certainly close to the late 90s GT-protos but manufacturers said no.

I'll reiterate:

If only intelligence and common sense was the norm from France instead of the total opposite.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by 6157

I'll reiterate:

If only intelligence and common sense was the norm from France instead of the total opposite.

Bill or Jim?

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Bill or Jim?

LOL!!!!

Best post of the month

[6157]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Bill or Jim? Since I agree with neither and my series is sitting on its hands enjoying it's stagnation and copying spec series which we rip Grand-Am for doing the same.

This is what I read.

[TWK]

If you don't mind, something relevant to the thread's original topic.

Grand Am released a competitors memorandum with tire-changing rules to acommodate single nut GT wheels.

Grand Am will introduce technology upgrades to Daytona Prototypes in 2011 ahead of a body overhaul (including narrowing the greenhouse) in 2012.

ALMS ruled out adding any other makes to the spec Porsche GTC in 2011.

ALMS announced Mexican Lamborginis would join GT.

ALMS confirmed a return to P1 and P2 separation, and closer adherence to ACO rules.

Conclusions: Grand Am is pressing forward aggressively to add GT3 cars to its GT grid. ALMS is convinced it has it "right" and is determined to "stay the course."