[WEC] 2015 WEC Discussion

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

You make your own heritage. You cant just rely on the past. Mexico City has a long history. Same for Montreal. The wec isnt in the past, its here now and wants to make its name known. Theyre going to have to do it somehow.

At first I was optimistic about the prospect of the WEC going to the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez (now there's a great way to keep your heritage alive!) but then I found out about the cannibalism they performing on it for the F1 race next year - it'll be another Kyalami/Hockenheim/Silverstone 'transformation'. Basically killed all my enthusiasm for the venue.

Montreal is fine - certainly not the greatest track in NA but it easily beats Indy, Kansas or any other roval, the GP there seems to be one of the most enjoyable ones on the calendar (along with Melbourne and Hungaroring) and the scenery looks like nice. I might even go there to watch the race!

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Montreal is fine - certainly not the greatest track in NA but it easily beats Indy, Kansas or any other roval, the GP there seems to be one of the most enjoyable ones on the calendar (along with Melbourne and Hungaroring) and the scenery looks like nice. I might even go there to watch the race!

You should, Montreal is a fantastic city.

[Purist]

Asphalt run-off does NOT help retard an out-of-control vehicle. From today's CTSCC race:
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story...n-video-091914

As to the above, yes, Montreal looks like a wonderful city. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is a rather nice circuit. It has a good layout, and looks like it's in a parkland, a very inviting setting.

I'm not sure that I'm behind the idea of a full, six-hour race there, but a three-hour could work well, I think.

[Deleted]

It's rather strange that for such 'parkland' setting Montreal/Île Notre-Dame has allowed FIA/F1 to pour tarmac runoff to almost every corner (or is it every corner now) in recent years. Something Albert Park is not allowing for their greenery

[TF110]

Aww, we dont get 4 races in the US at old "historic" tracks! Lets curse Gerard, or you can read an actual interview on racer.com...

GN: Well, we are looking, we are taking consideration for different opportunities. Sometimes you have to make sure that we can add one more date in the calendar, first. You must see if there is a good slot for the logistics, and third, that this is something where the financial risk is limited. Fourth point, the manufacturers and the partners must be happy about the local market, which is very important. You have to take into consideration all these [things].

At this moment, there's many discussions around the world, because we have to say that in the last one and a half years, we start to receive calls from different countries interested about hosting the WEC. Which is different if you compare with three years ago when I had to take my bags and ask them, 'Do you have some time for me?' Now it's a little bit different. We cannot make everybody happy. We have to be careful about the paddock and we are discussing with them to see if they are ready for additional date or not.

We have to be careful about the calendar also, because there are some places where we race now and we are not totally happy, so we can change. Which is not the case in Austin. Austin we have decided to stay, and there are others where we already established new contracts. This is the case for Bahrain, for example. We engaged in discussion with Silverstone, with Fuji. Shanghai is looking very good. But there is a place where you always looking if we continue or not and if we replace by another one or we add one more date, this is the job.

A second date in USA I'm not sure of, because we can focus everything there [at COTA]. A second date somewhere in North America someday, why not, but nothing now.

Like I said before, you cant just go to a track thats "historic". Theres bigger things at play that many dont seem to consider when complaining about their favorite race track not getting the one series called WEC.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Aww, we dont get 4 races in the US at old "historic" tracks! Lets curse Gerard, or you can read an actual interview on racer.com...

Like I said before, you cant just go to a track thats "historic". Theres bigger things at play that many dont seem to consider when complaining about their favorite race track not getting the one series called WEC.

I fail to see how anything Neveu said in the racer.com article makes the ignorant comments on sportscar365 less ignorant.

It's not about going to tracks "just because they're historic", it's completely removing even the thought of considering those tracks purely because they do not meet Formula 1 standards! Which they don't have to.

Oh well there was one interesting bit

Originally Posted by Gerard Neveu on Racer.com

"We cannot compare. First of all, Formula 1 is the top championship in the world, there is nothing to say."

Originally Posted by Gerard Neveu on Sportscar365 / E-I

“Thanks to the technical regulations, but also the sporting side of it, the FIA WEC has become the best World Championship.

Riiight...

[David Land]

I don't think Neveu realizes how big the United States is. It isn't feasible to expect all of the US sports car fans to be able to travel to Texas, it is almost like holding it in another country.

A race at Laguna or Road America would allow Western and East/Northerners respectively an opportunity to travel within reason and attend a world class sportscar race. Right now he only has the Southern US covered, he is missing out on the big ticket sales those 'history tracks' would offer.

Of course, I think he is just an FIA mouthpiece just doing what the FIA does best... shoving square pegs in round holes.

[Coach Ep]

There seems to be no or at least very little room for a second race in the US - or even NA for that matter - any time soon, maybe things change in 2016 (or 2016/2017 when the proposed winter schedule comes info fruition)? Bummer.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

I fail to see how anything Neveu said in the racer.com article makes the ignorant comments on sportscar365 less ignorant.

It's not about going to tracks "just because they're historic", it's completely removing even the thought of considering those tracks purely because they do not meet Formula 1 standards! Which they don't have to.

Oh well there was one interesting bit





Riiight...

Its called context. If hes saying it as a general statement it looks ignorant. But looking at the racer article you realize what he means by saying impossible. If you dont get his point then youre looking for fault. Imo, thats what many here are doing. People are never happy with what they get. But when you're like me and have nothing, you take what you can get! Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but the wec isnt in a position to make races at everyone's favorite tracks.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Any other sportscar race at Sebring outside the 12 Hours would be a start-up without a major fanbase to start with. And WEC can never run there for the 12 Hours as long as IMSA runs that race, because there is no physical possibility of running that many cars together on that track (unless they resurrect the pre-1990 layout and make the track longer).

I'm sorry, but do you all want a "6 Hours of Sebring" in October or something, and then take the event apart and call it a "sacrilege" because top sportscars are not running the 12 Hours? Because that's the only possibility at the moment (unless TUSC dies, which is still rather unlikely).

I know there's still lots of reasons to be negative about WEC, TUSC et al, but it's wrong to focus ONLY on that side of things. Do we want sportscar racing to return to the state it was just after WSPC and IMSA GT collapsed?

+1. But it is completely possible to stuff 95 cars at Sebring, Road Atlanta and Road America spread in two series with different rules and split to 21 classes because I saw it in my wet dream and now I am going to rant for the sake of ranting.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

Its called context. If hes saying it as a general statement it looks ignorant. But looking at the racer article you realize what he means by saying impossible. If you dont get his point then youre looking for fault. Imo, thats what many here are doing. People are never happy with what they get. But when you're like me and have nothing, you take what you can get! Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but the wec isnt in a position to make races at everyone's favorite tracks.

No, I don't get what he means by saying impossible. Not at all.

Let's look at what Neveu wants from his beloved tracks in the Racer article.

- There needs to be room in the calendar
- Good slot for the logistics
- Financial risk is limited
- Manufacturers and partners happy about the 'local market'

Clearly all of these criterias are good enough for CotA in FIA/ACO's mind now (although on page 1 he says that CotA is not making financial profit at all and it's all damage limitation atm). Now tell me exactly, if there was a ninth sloth on the calendar or CotA was axed (= just another event in the US to 'try it out' to build on for the future), why exactly couldn't they race at non-F1 track in the US? All of those four points Gerard mentioned tick for say Road Atlanta surely. Or Road America. Yet he blatantly says NO for it and all other circuits like that simply because it's "technically impossible". Which he gives zero reasoning for. Simply put, the explanations given in the racer.com article do nothing to take the grand ignorance out of the sportscar365 interview.

And you keep mentioning "everybody's favorite tracks". Sure, I personally would prefer to have them on real tracks (historic too) instead of these soulless car parks. But again, this is not about everybody's favorite tracks (hell I'd even see them at New Jersey Motorsport Park - which I hate - if it meant trying something else), but questioning why there is artificial limitation when limitation is not needed. Because while the gigantic corporate guest VIP facilities, big fancy dancy garages & facilities and non-punishing circuits are surely what FIA/ACO want, it not what is needed for hosting a sportscar event of this kind. If you can't even consider circuit X which has superior location and superior attendance but lacks fancy Coca-Cola machine of circuit Y, well...

You don't play according to Uncle Bernard's rulebook at this stage of the lifespan.

[Koenigsegg]

Why they don't go to Zandvoort, yoooo!! I don't understand!! Such an historic track!

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by deggis

+1. But it is completely possible to stuff 95 cars at Sebring, Road Atlanta and Road America spread in two series with different rules and split to 21 classes because I saw it in my wet dream and now I am going to rant for the sake of ranting.

So funny my head exploded. But then it forgot to explode and I realized it wasn't funny.

If we are talking about integrated events like ILMC, of course such would be more difficult now with the whole NASCAR mess than it was 3-4 years ago. AsLMS yes, ELMS with slight compromises, but with this I'd say it to be rather suicidal. Mostly because neither side wants that and neither side is willing to do compromises, ie the real failure for Sebring 2012. The only ways if they actually did agree for common race would be total (smaller) class eliminations and/or pre-qualifyings. Or having LMP1 alone (for NAEC)

Not sure what you are on about with the sarcasm since it's not really what this is all about.

[TF110]

It is a fantasy. While its nice to have good dreams, reality is not as pretty of a picture. Who runs or owns Road Atlanta or Sebring? Say you get a race there, who will attend if its not "Sebring 12hrs" or "Petit Le Mans"? History is being thrown around, but those names are a huge part of it! The WEC doesnt get those names for some odd reason, then what? When? Its obvious that the series is not at the point where it can 'stand alone' in areas. That point was being made. While other places clamor for this series, the U.S. doesn't seem like its cooperating or ready for 'just' the wec. Probably why you see them running back to back with tusc. What they did seems like instead of trying and failing at a place like Sebring, they go to a place that another FIA series has success at. And who knows if Austin offered money while others didnt?

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by TF110

It is a fantasy. While its nice to have good dreams, reality is not as pretty of a picture. Who runs or owns Road Atlanta or Sebring? Say you get a race there, who will attend if its not "Sebring 12hrs" or "Petit Le Mans"? History is being thrown around, but those names are a huge part of it! The WEC doesnt get those names for some odd reason, then what? When? Its obvious that the series is not at the point where it can 'stand alone' in areas. That point was being made. While other places clamor for this series, the U.S. doesn't seem like its cooperating or ready for 'just' the wec. Probably why you see them running back to back with tusc. What they did seems like instead of trying and failing at a place like Sebring, they go to a place that another FIA series has success at. And who knows if Austin offered money while others didnt?

What point? That the series cannot stand on it's own in US? That they need USCC or something to support them? Okay fine - I actually sort of agree as non-domestic series don't have the best of reputation there - have NASCAR Trucks and World Challenge and Indy Lights paired up with you, whatever. But what has that to do with the circuit you choose? You could pair with them at Detroit street circuit, it doesn't require mandatory Grade 1 licence. And it's not like CotA has some magical sign of success marked to it, V8 Supercars abandoned it as did many other series and now there's the court issue going on.

Again, they say last year's CotA wasn't particularly huge success and that they are taking financial damage out of it, but hoping it will build on regardless in the years to come. Now why exactly could they not do the same thing at Laguna (or wherever)? Ie start with lowly goals but slowly build up the event? I see, it's because of 'technical difficulties', I get it now. Oh wait I don't.

[Maelochs]

Pretty obviously there are a lot of behind-the-scenes, off-the-record discussions and factors of which we know nothing.

It's not like Gerard Neveu can do whatever he feels like on any given day--I am sure there are track officials, ACO officials, FIA officials, teams principals, TV execs, bankers, and various government officials, plus all the various suppliers from programs and memorabilia to fuel and tires, all trying to get the deal that each thinks is best.

Getting upset about it doesn't help. Those that choose to, please feel free, but I will just watch as much as I can, remember as much as I can, and look forward as much as I can.

If I had known that Sebring and PLM in 2011ans 2012 were going to be the beginning and end, not just the beginning, I bet I would have paid more attention. I will try not to make the same mistake this weekend.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Chiana

What point? That the series cannot stand on it's own in US? That they need USCC or something to support them? Okay fine - I actually sort of agree as non-domestic series don't have the best of reputation there - have NASCAR Trucks and World Challenge and Indy Lights paired up with you, whatever. But what has that to do with the circuit you choose? You could pair with them at Detroit street circuit, it doesn't require mandatory Grade 1 licence. And it's not like CotA has some magical sign of success marked to it, V8 Supercars abandoned it as did many other series and now there's the court issue going on.

Again, they say last year's CotA wasn't particularly huge success and that they are taking financial damage out of it, but hoping it will build on regardless in the years to come. Now why exactly could they not do the same thing at Laguna (or wherever)? Ie start with lowly goals but slowly build up the event? I see, it's because of 'technical difficulties', I get it now. Oh wait I don't.

Thats right, you dont get it. World is a big place, they chose Austin, or Austin chose them. Or maybe they chose eachother, who cares? Real sportscar fans? Theyll boycott it thanks to its run off parking lot-esque look. Or not. Why did they go to cota? Who knows. Why did alms sell to nascar? Who knows. Lots of questions. When answers are given, people dont like the answer or claim they know better. So why worry yourself over the question if you arent pleased regardless the answer?

[Purist]

Sorry, TF110, I don't know how to turn off the German engineer/mechanic part of my brain, so the answers given HAVE TO "make sense", or else I'm going to keep beating until I get answers that DO make sense.


I'm not banging on the Sebring or Road Atlanta bandwagons either. Road America or Laguna Seca would do fine by me. Heck, Barber has a full Grade 2, is approved for larger-displacement open-wheelers (IndyCar), and back when it looked like there might be an American F1 team, the place was granted a 1T rating.

My issue is that, if the tracks are wrong, you don't have your fundamentals of the series right. If you don't have the fundamentals right, why should I have confidence in the series over the long run? If the fundamentals aren't there, how can it be made into a successful series? Running at circuits that can't make ends meet on their own, and relying on government subsidies for commercial sustenance, is NOT a viable or sustainable model for keeping a series afloat.

Run exciting cars on attractive, challenging circuits, and you'll have done EVERYBODY involved a HUGE favor, especially the marketing/promotions department, because you've made their job SO MUCH easier. Offer the product in an appealing setting, and you'll get a much wider swathe of enthusiastic followers for the series. Having that excited fan/customer base makes for happier teams, drivers, and down the line, sponsors/partners. Having enthused people around makes others WANT to be a part of it, and having all those people more at ease creates greater fertile ground to sell them on more things. That should make your sponsors really happy. Don't you think?

For the WEC to have a chance of being a lasting, successful series, they CAN'T afford to follow the "shareholders demand continually increasing quarterly profits" model, which is effectively what F1 is doing. F1 could afford to do it, but only for a time, because they're already so big, and it's costing them now. The WEC doesn't have the luxury of that advanced starting position to be able to do that for very long.

So, again, get the basics right, and you'll have to do far less cajoling to get the rest of the pieces to fall into place. (I wonder how long CotA will even be around though, because the standard F1 model is utterly untenable in this country. It's already fallen through for one Spanish race, along with Turkey, South Korea, and India. Singapore and China have gotten reductions in their sanction fees also.)

[TF110]

F1 isnt the wec. We dont have Bernie charging up circuits to host his series. I care about tracks, but theres too much crap thrown at series running modern circuits. Its not that serious to most people. Itd be nice to run at Sebring and Road America, but thats not likely. Complaining about it here does what? Give feedback to the wec, maybe if enough people agree with the need to run historic tracks, theyll do it.

[Pandemonium]

I really love modern circuits and I would not like the WEC to run at Sebring or RA. Better get used to it. LONG LIVE THE WEC

[MagVanisher]

Thank you troll, now go to sleep...

[David Land]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

I really love modern circuits and I would not like the WEC to run at Sebring or RA. Better get used to it. LONG LIVE THE WEC

Welcome to the forum Mr. Neveu.

[Simmi]

Magnus Racing thinking about a potential WEC switch: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/m...-wec-for-2015/

The double-header with TUSC might not be universally popular but it does put the WEC right under the nose of some top teams.

[Coach Ep]

Considering or evaluating is something else than committing to it, seems to me mr. Dagys is a little bit too 'scoop eager' on this (and other items emerging from chatting with teams/drivers). Sure most of them would like to participate on the world stage in some shape or form at one time but that's about all there's to say about it.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by TF110

but theres too much crap thrown at series running modern circuits.

Nah, it's just that those make for less thrilling racing imo. Which is the essence of it as being a fan.