GT3: ACO style

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Non WEC GT3 brands excluded from LM and ELMS:

https://www.dailysportscar.com/2023/...yOgEiD35BG4JAM

The series sure has a talent for alienating their core fanbase. How hard can it be to add a 10th car to the BPO round-and-round? There's plenty of data and if that weren't enough (in case of updated models for instance), there is always the option of having LM24 auto invites run a pre LM race in either WEC or ELMS.

And expect Asian LMS to go a similar route next season.

This is crazy. Le Mans I can kind of understand, but doing this to ELMS is absurd. Even if Honda, MB and Audi decided that they can field a Hypercar next season, there isn't the grid space to accommodate the GTs to go along with them, so just.... why? They were doing so well up to this point. What are all the teams who have deals and relationships with the excluded manufacturers going to do? And to use BoP as the excuse? Messy.

[Mike E]

Also weird because Audi, Honda and Merc were represented in the Le Mans Cup this year. So those teams can't progress up the ACO ladder we keep hearing about unless they change cars.

[Coach Ep]

WEC could have a support series with P2/P3/GTE/GT3 to take care of the overflow.

Lots of local entries and non WEC mandated brands. Maybe even throw in the Vanwall (it's not gonna finish anyway so no worries for the slower P2s) and - in the US - the now obsolete DPi's.

[v8supes]

I was really excited about GT3 becoming the only GT class in ACO. I wanted it for the past few years but its very clear that the ACO have to do things their own way. What they have done now is create a closed shop in GT. Nobody other than AF Corse will ever be able to run a Ferrari in WEC. Iron Lynx with Lamborghini, Manthey with Porsche etc. There is no way for ELMS/IMSA/ALMS teams to join the WEC now unless they partner with a current team or go to Hypercar for huge money.

A cynic might suggest that this is just another way of limiting diversity on the grid. They made LMP2, LMP3 effectively all spec racing. You could even argue that this is just a way for the ACO to sell GT spots to the highest bidder....

This may have a knock on effect in GT3 of actually pushing GT manufacturers out of the sport by putting the manufacturers who dont get selected by the ACO at a disadvantage to those who do get selected when it comes to attracting customers.

[Coach Ep]

Clearly, the easy solution is to expand the grid. ACO/FIA/WEC need to get to work!

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Clearly, the easy solution is to expand the grid. ACO/FIA/WEC need to get to work!

They have already made it clear that expanding the grid is a priority for 2025 - the limiting factors in 2024 are the available pit spaces at Imola (a one year replacement for Monza (which is closed in Spring/ summer next year) and CoTA which is also likely to be a one-off next year

[veeten]

Another grand example of too many entrants and not enough spots. Just goes to show how much interest sportscar racing is getting.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

They have already made it clear that expanding the grid is a priority for 2025 - the limiting factors in 2024 are the available pit spaces at Imola (a one year replacement for Monza (which is closed in Spring/ summer next year) and CoTA which is also likely to be a one-off next year

Hell of a difficult job putting together a calendar. But it is pretty ironic that it's the short-term rounds which are actually holding the series back from a grid standpoint.

[Mike E]

Also mind boggling that at Bahrain 2021 there were three hypercars on the grid and one of those was a grandfathered LMP1

[S griffin]

The sooner they expand the grid the better. Although they have to make sure those coming in have enough quality about them

[veeten]

Originally Posted by S griffin

The sooner they expand the grid the better. Although they have to make sure those coming in have enough quality about them

The issue here is... just how far can they do that expansion without leaving teams or manufacturers out, and still maintain that level of quality. The main thing is coming to an agreement as to what transpires, and recognizing that there will be some things that will be left out or behind, in order to achieve something that all involved will be able to build, maintain, and grow. teams and manufacturers will come and go, dependent upon their own issues and circumstances, but the core series, and the people who run it, should be able to maintain something not just for this season, but for a far longer.

That is the task.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by veeten

The issue here is... just how far can they do that expansion without leaving teams or manufacturers out, and still maintain that level of quality. The main thing is coming to an agreement as to what transpires, and recognizing that there will be some things that will be left out or behind, in order to achieve something that all involved will be able to build, maintain, and grow. teams and manufacturers will come and go, dependent upon their own issues and circumstances, but the core series, and the people who run it, should be able to maintain something not just for this season, but for a far longer.

That is the task.

Good point here. They shouldn’t rely too much on manufacturers, but they would be foolish to turn them down. Hopefully the right solution is found

[broadrun96]

There's also a LOT of when if you open it these guys WILL be there. If we saved a spot for every car that claimed to be interested in a program LM would have 500 cars

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

There's also a LOT of when if you open it these guys WILL be there. If we saved a spot for every car that claimed to be interested in a program LM would have 500 cars

Well obviously they would at least need to have a car design first

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Clearly, the easy solution is to expand the grid. ACO/FIA/WEC need to get to work!

How about doing split prototype and GT races? Say 3-4 hours each.

[Steve McQ]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

They have already made it clear that expanding the grid is a priority for 2025 - the limiting factors in 2024 are the available pit spaces at Imola (a one year replacement for Monza (which is closed in Spring/ summer next year) and CoTA which is also likely to be a one-off next year

Are there any plans to expand COTA's pitlane ? I only see 34 pit garages, 2 or 3 less than WEC entrants in 2024.

BTW, are there serious reasons why they refuse one off entries on tracks with enough space once the grid is fully subscribed ? In other words, could SCG or Vanwall or a second IFM be at Spa and Le Mans only (if they want and are ready)?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by v8supes

I was really excited about GT3 becoming the only GT class in ACO. I wanted it for the past few years but its very clear that the ACO have to do things their own way. What they have done now is create a closed shop in GT. Nobody other than AF Corse will ever be able to run a Ferrari in WEC. Iron Lynx with Lamborghini, Manthey with Porsche etc. There is no way for ELMS/IMSA/ALMS teams to join the WEC now unless they partner with a current team or go to Hypercar for huge money.

I agree and the fact teams like AF Corse, WRT, Proton, Iron Lynx do double duty in hypercar and GT isn't helping either.

Originally Posted by v8supes

This may have a knock on effect in GT3 of actually pushing GT manufacturers out of the sport by putting the manufacturers who dont get selected by the ACO at a disadvantage to those who do get selected when it comes to attracting customers.

I don't agree. There's still room for 9 or 10 manufacturers. And outside ACO there are lots of series for GT3 cars, both sprint and endurance racing.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Steve McQ

Are there any plans to expand COTA's pitlane ? I only see 34 pit garages, 2 or 3 less than WEC entrants in 2024.

BTW, are there serious reasons why they refuse one off entries on tracks with enough space once the grid is fully subscribed ? In other words, could SCG or Vanwall or a second IFM be at Spa and Le Mans only (if they want and are ready)?

This past season Caddy had an extra car at Spa didn't they? So perhaps that can still be done?

[Coach Ep]

Yep. The one Van der Zande crashed at Raidillon.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Nevertheless, it's another step towards eliminating diversity.

Moaning about lack of diversity when we are gaining an extra 4 car manufacturers.

Originally Posted by S griffin

Very short sighted decision. We’ve always loved seeing teams having a one off at LM. This is not going to be very popular

The teams will still get a chance of a one off at LM. Teams previously winning AsLMS, they sometimes had to run a different model at LM in GTE. For example Optimum (McLaren to Ferrari) and Walkenhorst (BMW to Ferrari).

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about doing split prototype and GT races? Say 3-4 hours each.

No! If I want that type of racing I'll watch IMSA.

[Bcarr6]

Please do someone tell me why this doesn't make sense, but my mind goes straight to the IMSA way of doing pits. They are capable of running these very same cars from a marquee behind a line of concrete blocks.

So, while I don't think we need to be that extreme, im sure there is a way of increasing capacity when there is only 36 physical garages?

Each GT MFG will have 2 cars on the pitlane this year, why not give each team 1 garage for 2 cars.

Maybe the teams have to reduce the amount of gear they have in the back of the garage, and put up a tent out the back.

I'm sure theres practical issues with it, but seems like a worthy compromise

[broadrun96]

IMSA teams bring their own "garage bays" usually off the side of the hauler rather than the garages to work on the cars. It's just a different way of getting the same thing done. Road Atlanta has no garages, well kinda but they aren't on the "pro" side, and the IMSA paddock area is just a flat paved area. In theory yes they can do that, Sebring is an example cause I don't think they built them a garage structure on the back straight did they? But will any WEC teams settle for the temporary structure at the end of a row of pit garages?

[Coach Ep]

No, Sebring pit structures are/were temporary. Adequate nevertheless. Here are a few examples on how things looked: https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...bring-paddock/

A similar type of set up for additional entries could work. Heck, the ACO did it @ LM so why not for other WEC rounds?

[GT3_Fan]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

How about doing split prototype and GT races? Say 3-4 hours each.

WEC has no need to do this at all. IMSA is a place to try an idea like this. i think they should run two 10 hour Petit Le Mans on back to back weekends. First with LMP2, GTD Am. Second week with GTP and GTD Pro.

GT3 in WEC is going to be neat. I like the idea of 9 different makes but only 2 cars each. Reminds me of FIA GT in the 2012 season. They did this format as well. I think SRO for GT WC Sprint should revert back to something similar perhaps a limit of 4 per make in their case. But sticking to the topic as this is a WEC forum. I can see a different manufacturer winning each race in 2024 for sure. I hope they use green number panels though to counter hypercars red. No point using orange anymore.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by GT3_Fan

WEC has no need to do this at all. IMSA is a place to try an idea like this. i think they should run two 10 hour Petit Le Mans on back to back weekends. First with LMP2, GTD Am. Second week with GTP and GTD Pro.

You do understand that would no longer be Petit but rather just 2 pointless SRO and LeMans Cup races right? Why do people keep wanting to destroy the essence of an event for well I have no idea what the motivation is frankly.

Oh and a 10 hour Sunday race IS NOT NOT NOT HAPPENING. By law it wouldn't work so just stop with that already. Back to back weekends is just not workable in terms of teams, track folks, corner workers, etc, it's just far far far too much strain on the costs and system to be viable

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

No, Sebring pit structures are/were temporary. Adequate nevertheless. Here are a few examples on how things looked: https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...bring-paddock/

A similar type of set up for additional entries could work. Heck, the ACO did it @ LM so why not for other WEC rounds?

That was my thinking, if they can get 2-5 more cars in the freight making an additional pit area at 2 venues, one of which is schedule filler anyway COTA, they should consider it