What is Aston Martin up to? - Page 135

canam · 8 Jul 2011, 18:09 (Ref:2923794)

Unless there is a requirement for a lot of carbon components, the economics are difficult to justify. It is unlikely to be quality or control issues as most of the better composite companies are very good.

It is hard to judge what this means.

gwyllion · 9 Jul 2011, 17:24 (Ref:2924192)

The latest edition of Racecar Engineering has an article about the AMR-One: http://gb.zinio.com/pages/RacecarEng...16178379/pg-10

The engine guy Jason Hill explains the advantages and disadvantages of a inline 6 compared to a inline 4 layer: reduced installation height, decreased individual cilinder loads, longer and slightly more friction losses. Note that he does not make the comparision with a V6 layout

MulsanneMike · 10 Jul 2011, 20:50 (Ref:2924762)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

The latest edition of Racecar Engineering has an article about the AMR-One: http://gb.zinio.com/pages/RacecarEng...16178379/pg-10

The engine guy Jason Hill explains the advantages and disadvantages of a inline 6 compared to a inline 4 layer: reduced installation height, decreased individual cilinder loads, longer and slightly more friction losses. Note that he does not make the comparision with a V6 layout

All the advantages of the I6 are all well and good. One thing though, why are they massively down on power? We're not talking 50 hp, we're talking 150 hp...And no reliability to boot.

Victor_RO · 10 Jul 2011, 20:52 (Ref:2924764)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

All the advantages of the I6 are all well and good. One thing though, why are they massively down on power? We're not talking 50 hp, we're talking 150 hp...And no reliability to boot.

Maybe they've overstretched themselves somewhat to make the engine small and lightweight?

JAG · 10 Jul 2011, 23:21 (Ref:2924835)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

All the advantages of the I6 are all well and good. One thing though, why are they massively down on power? We're not talking 50 hp, we're talking 150 hp...And no reliability to boot.

Aren't they related, if there's a design issue, until it's addressed, they have to run the engine well down on power.

Upto now, they've been fixing issues, only to find the weak spot moves elsewhere.

MulsanneMike · 11 Jul 2011, 10:16 (Ref:2924996)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAG

Aren't they related, if there's a design issue, until it's addressed, they have to run the engine well down on power.

Upto now, they've been fixing issues, only to find the weak spot moves elsewhere.

I'm sure they are related, but it would have been nice to inquire with them along similar lines for a change instead of giving them carte blanche to blather...

mackteck · 14 Jul 2011, 14:10 (Ref:2926582)

from john dagys twitter:
Aston Martin Racing could revert to its V12-powered Lola-Astons for Silverstone, according to this week's Autosport

MitchZ06 · 14 Jul 2011, 14:16 (Ref:2926586)

Maybe they should test the I6 in the Lola for the rest of the year?

Dead-Eye · 14 Jul 2011, 15:09 (Ref:2926607)

If it blows up in the Lola it still blows up...

Acid09 · 14 Jul 2011, 17:01 (Ref:2926679)

My bet stands, the AMR One in its current form is never racing again... I guess Prodrive has finally realised that the car is an unfixable mess, hence the idea to go back to the Lola.

They should have done that for Le Mans, just to save face.

chernaudi · 14 Jul 2011, 18:33 (Ref:2926705)

Especially when the AMR-Ones only managed 7 laps between them and were the first retirements, while their old car with a team partly comprised of pay drivers managed a top 10 overall finish.

And Cytosport in the ALMS has done a decent job with their car (even though they're only facing a couple of four-banger powered Lolas).

gwyllion · 14 Jul 2011, 18:49 (Ref:2926714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acid09

My bet stands, the AMR One in its current form is never racing again... I guess Prodrive has finally realised that the car is an unfixable mess, hence the idea to go back to the Lola.

And which engine will they put in the Lola? Grandfathered LMP1s are meant to be slower than new LMP1s. What would be the use in racing a handicapped car?

Acid09 · 14 Jul 2011, 18:58 (Ref:2926720)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

And which engine will they put in the Lola? Grandfathered LMP1s are meant to be slower than new LMP1s. What would be the use in racing a handicapped car?

Handicapped or not, they at least have the chance to make the finish with the old car.

There is not a possible way that racing the old car could have provided a worse result than what they archived... doing worse is virtually impossible.

The worst thing they can do now is waste another year or even more trying to "fix" the AMR One... they should come to the painful realisation that the car in its current form can't and will never work and ditch the whole design.

The sooner they make this decision the better and the Lola would allow them to have at least a respectable on-track presence in the meantime.

Deleted · 14 Jul 2011, 19:03 (Ref:2926726)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Grandfathered LMP1s are meant to be slower than new LMP1s

Only in theory, look at Pesca...

Reverting back to old Lola is a very sensible choice IMO, running anything else besides that new joke of a car is a way to safe their face from even further embrassment.

Audi Racer · 14 Jul 2011, 19:17 (Ref:2926739)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

Only in theory, look at Pesca...

Reverting back to old Lola is a very sensible choice IMO, running anything else besides that new joke of a car is a way to safe their face from even further embrassment.

That just goes to show you how much the Rebellion Toyota is underperforming......and why we dont have any proper diesel petrol comparisons.

AGD · 14 Jul 2011, 21:32 (Ref:2926810)

About time! I think this is the most logical thing they can do at the moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiana

Only in theory, look at Pesca...

Reverting back to old Lola is a very sensible choice IMO, running anything else besides that new joke of a car is a way to safe their face from even further embrassment.

Yeah, exactly. The Pescarolo has been quite fast this year. At times it has been faster than all the other petrols. Heck, the Kronos/MarcVDS Lola-Aston was decently fast enough (compared to other petrols) at Le Mans and they barely had any time with the car.

I wonder what will happen to Aston's ALMS plans for this year. Maybe they will send a factory Lola to whatever race it was they were planning on doing beside Petit (Laguna I think it was, I don't remember)? Also, how many Lolas does the factory team have at their disposal at the moment? Can they run two cars?

Accident · 14 Jul 2011, 22:06 (Ref:2926832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGD

I wonder what will happen to Aston's ALMS plans for this year. Maybe they will send a factory Lola to whatever race it was they were planning on doing beside Petit (Laguna I think it was, I don't remember)? Also, how many Lolas does the factory team have at their disposal at the moment? Can they run two cars?

I think it was said elsewhere that there is one remaining Lola coupe at AMR, and that it isn't fitted with all the updates, and the chances of it ever being raced again are slim.

Simmi · 14 Jul 2011, 22:22 (Ref:2926838)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebanza

I think it was said elsewhere that there is one remaining Lola coupe at AMR, and that it isn't fitted with all the updates, and the chances of it ever being raced again are slim.

DR is quoted in Autosport as saying: "One option is to use the Lolas, because we have the cars available."

So Lolas plural.

AGD · 14 Jul 2011, 22:29 (Ref:2926846)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebanza

I think it was said elsewhere that there is one remaining Lola coupe at AMR, and that it isn't fitted with all the updates, and the chances of it ever being raced again are slim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simmi

DR is quoted in Autosport as saying: "One option is to use the Lolas, because we have the cars available."

So Lolas plural.

Yeah, someone was saying on a thread here that one was available. Perhaps the old Kronos car is available to them now? I don't know who actually owns that car. Is it the old Signature Plus car?

isynge · 15 Jul 2011, 00:15 (Ref:2926877)

The full Autosport story does state than an independent third party validation of the AMR-ONE had passed it as a fit for purpose project. The way I read the overall tenor of the piece was that Aston Martin had undertaken a serious review of operations post Le Mans and this has given them some grounds to persevere with the AMR-ONE.

However, and I'm reading between lines here, there might be such root and branch change needed that parking the ONEs until 2012 might be called for, in which case to do Silverstone would need old Lolas to be pressed into service. I'd see this as a pragmatic call - Aston Martin Racing need to be at Sliverstone - and if they can't realistically be there with the new car then they need a fallback.

Mixed feelings about this - love the V12, but really want them to make the ONE work - in the flesh it's really not that bad and going back to the Lola is a real retrograd step. I'd also question the commercial rataionale for running the Lolas - which are, after all, a paid for programme. Even if the AMR-ONE ends up being something like a Ford P68 surely some running will bolster the long run value.

MitchZ06 · 15 Jul 2011, 00:18 (Ref:2926878)

Whats the chances they could run one with the V12 and have another as a 'current' spec car (not grandfathered) with the I6? If the I6 blows itself again atleast they'll have one car still running.

Canada ALMS fan · 15 Jul 2011, 02:10 (Ref:2926892)

A couple of concerns - first, selfishly, I worry they won't be at Petit.
Second, and more importantly, what does this mean funding wise? They have 5 pre-sold and are using some of that $$$ to bankroll the project. If I had put money down on an AMR One I would not be happy and surely there must be some performance clauses in the contracts??

Acid09 · 15 Jul 2011, 02:41 (Ref:2926897)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

A couple of concerns - first, selfishly, I worry they won't be at Petit.
Second, and more importantly, what does this mean funding wise? They have 5 pre-sold and are using some of that $$$ to bankroll the project. If I had put money down on an AMR One I would not be happy and surely there must be some performance clauses in the contracts??

Well, the collectors get a car with a pristine racing history.. worst works prototype failure at Le Mans is something that makes the cars special, isn't it?

canam · 15 Jul 2011, 07:39 (Ref:2926938)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGD

The Pescarolo has been quite fast this year.

The Pesca is probably the best (non-works) chassis out there. It was extremely well designed at the outset and very quick. It took full advantage of the regulations (following the RS Spyder's wholescale (re)interpretation of those regs and the ACO's inability to claw things back). It is no surprise that even in grandfathered form it is quick and indicates how far the Lola is behind the curve.

The car could be updated into current spec and would be very formidable. With a good motor, it will be even quicker; however, it still wont touch the diesels.

SebringMG · 16 Jul 2011, 11:42 (Ref:2927386)

The thing is the Lola-AMR V12 is a closed development option - there is no long term benefit to the team in running it (other than saving some embarrassment i guess). The V12 is a dead engine option, yeah so it gives them a couple of decent results this year....does not help for next year or 2013 onwards.

AMR would be better off purchasing an AER turbo four pot dropping that into one of the ONE chassis and using that to at least run chassis development / testing at least until the I6 engine is actually capable of allowing the car to go fast enough for further development to be worthwhile.

What would I do at Silverstone? Depending upon where the engine program is consider running at least one of the ONE's maybe with a V12 to at least show where it is going wrong.

But the V12 is not a good option going forward IF they are serious about a 3 year program.

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