2024 Season - News and Rumours

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Plantagenet

Re. Sainz, it will likely depend if he had keyhole or an old-fashioned open procedure (which may need to be done if they caught if late and it had perforated). If he had an open procedure, that's where you have the issues of a longer period off as the risk of the wound not healing and herniating is higher. Think of the G forces in a F1 car, coupled with the force to stomp on the brake pedal and you have the worst possible circumstances for wound issues.

FWIW, I think be he'll there in Melborune

If it was open I doubt he would have shown up the following day

[S griffin]

Yes, I think it’s pretty much confirmed Sainz will be back for Oz

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Yes, I think it’s pretty much confirmed Sainz will be back for Oz

Mr Jordan seems to think on his podcast that Mr Sainz may be too unwell to participate in the Albert Park event..

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr Jordan seems to think on his podcast that Mr Sainz may be too unwell to participate in the Albert Park event..

Jordan says a lot of things, and most of it is BS. He’s the new JV.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Jordan says a lot of things, and most of it is BS. He’s the new JV.

He's the old EJ, surely?

[E.B]

Originally Posted by HDTVKSS

Jordan says a lot of things, and most of it is BS. He’s the new JV.

Not sure which JV we are talking about.... there are two of them now, both skilled at BS. One a Canadian with a famous Father, the other Dutch, with a famous son.

[Guthrie]

The woman who accused Christian Horner of inappropriate behavior is allegedly appealing the decision to dismiss her complaint against the Red Bull team boss.

Not sure, how this story is going to end?

[HDTVKSS]

Originally Posted by E.B

Not sure which JV we are talking about.... there are two of them now, both skilled at BS. One a Canadian with a famous Father, the other Dutch, with a famous son.

The Canadian one of course. The Dutch one is too busy conspiring with his sewing circle….

[porsche962fan]

slight off topic

having watched some 70s F1 races recently and compared to today one thing strikes me about the grids themselves

in the 70s no grid was really the same !! , what I mean they were usually over 26 entries (on some meeting near 40 cars entered) so you can get variety on the backmarkers make the cut and some who don't

another aspect todays it's the dam same cars, same drivers and same liveries the whole season race after race !! it gets really tiresome and monotonous , back then you had quite a lot driver changes specially to midfield and and backmarkers, sponsor (livery) changes too , some teams had just 1 car, occasionally some of the bigger teams entered 3 cars, and you also had privateers using usually older cars

and then there are the car models themselves , it wasn't uncommon for teams to change models mid-sason , do some visible modifications or just engine supplier mid-season too


today everything seems to be "locked" how it starts is usually how it ends race by race all the way to the next season

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

slight off topic

having watched some 70s F1 races recently and compared to today one thing strikes me about the grids themselves

in the 70s no grid was really the same !! , what I mean they were usually over 26 entries (on some meeting near 40 cars entered) so you can get variety on the backmarkers make the cut and some who don't

another aspect todays it's the dam same cars, same drivers and same liveries the whole season race after race !! it gets really tiresome and monotonous , back then you had quite a lot driver changes specially to midfield and and backmarkers, sponsor (livery) changes too , some teams had just 1 car, occasionally some of the bigger teams entered 3 cars, and you also had privateers using usually older cars

and then there are the car models themselves , it wasn't uncommon for teams to change models mid-sason , do some visible modifications or just engine supplier mid-season too


today everything seems to be "locked" how it starts is usually how it ends race by race all the way to the next season

Nearly every professional category has moved to a franchise system where competitors have to compete in every race.This has the advantage for promoters,media companies and fans of knowing you are going to get the full grid.In return the teams don’t want their exposure diluted by entrants dropping in and out.Even where wild cards are permitted the rules around that are strictly controlled.
As for changes to the car during the season restrictions are mainly due to cost control(except livery).
I appreciate what you are saying but it is economically not feasible.Just changing times with at least as many pluses as minuses.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

slight off topic

having watched some 70s F1 races recently and compared to today one thing strikes me about the grids themselves

in the 70s no grid was really the same !! , what I mean they were usually over 26 entries (on some meeting near 40 cars entered) so you can get variety on the backmarkers make the cut and some who don't

another aspect todays it's the dam same cars, same drivers and same liveries the whole season race after race !! it gets really tiresome and monotonous , back then you had quite a lot driver changes specially to midfield and and backmarkers, sponsor (livery) changes too , some teams had just 1 car, occasionally some of the bigger teams entered 3 cars, and you also had privateers using usually older cars

and then there are the car models themselves , it wasn't uncommon for teams to change models mid-sason , do some visible modifications or just engine supplier mid-season too


today everything seems to be "locked" how it starts is usually how it ends race by race all the way to the next season

So all of that variability with drivers coming and going, teams switching chassis, power units, etc. Was that actually successful or was that just a bunch of enthusiastic and entertaining rabble at the tail end of the field just floundering about? I suspect the answer is that outside of an occasional nearly random success, they were just filling in the field. Why would anyone who was actually trying to win today do any of that? It would be suicide.

Plus as Alan52 calls out, the cost of doing that today would be astronomical. I really would love to see what it would have cost to run one of those 1970's teams in 2024 dollars. My assumption is the budgets would have been much smaller meaning it was probably easy for someone to scrape up enough funds to run a bit and have fun, but really have close to zero chance of winning. Or if the chance to win was higher, it was more down to the level of overall reliability back then being much worse. So that race results would have been more variable than today. A retirement of a car these days is a notable event!

Richard

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Plus as Alan52 calls out, the cost of doing that today would be astronomical. I really would love to see what it would have cost to run one of those 1970's teams in 2024 dollars. My assumption is the budgets would have been much smaller meaning it was probably easy for someone to scrape up enough funds to run a bit and have fun, but really have close to zero chance of winning. Or if the chance to win was higher, it was more down to the level of overall reliability back then being much worse. So that race results would have been more variable than today. A retirement of a car these days is a notable event!

Richard

eating the exact same food day after day after day can also make you sick of it


but say an example, when F1 visits an US circuit , say today it would be impossible for an US driver to have a gig in a race either for a local team to rent some cars or just for the driver buy a seat in an existing team for that event

Why would anyone who was actually trying to win today do any of that? It would be suicide.

for same reason most teams enter today r even if Red Bull wins everything ?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

eating the exact same food day after day after day can also make you sick of it


but say an example, when F1 visits an US circuit , say today it would be impossible for an US driver to have a gig in a race either for a local team to rent some cars or just for the driver buy a seat in an existing team for that event

Fair point. The current dominance, while interesting at one level, results in us here on the forum regularly rating races quite poorly. So from an entertainment and maybe in a "David vs. Goliath" perspective, F1 today is quite boring. As you say... you can get sick from too much of the same thing

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

for same reason most teams enter today r even if Red Bull wins everything ?

Again, I get your point. People and teams compete even if they are hopeless unprepared or unskilled. And we do enjoy watching them try.

Richard

[Rusty Nail]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

another aspect todays it's the dam same cars, same drivers and same liveries the whole season race after race !! it gets really tiresome and monotonous

I take the opposite view. I get really frustrated watching Indycars where the liveries are constantly changing, you never know who's driving what or whom you're watching. I get the reasons for that but I much prefer F1 where you don't have to relearn who's in which livery every week

[steve_r]

Good news - Mazepin has got his ban for potential Putin links overturned, so he is available for F1 again! In other news Mercedes have a seat free for next year.

[porsche962fan]

also why exactly is it banned to enter more than 2 cars ??

here Monza 1976 you can see 3 Ferraris in one shot

Ronnie Peterson in the middle in his March, he won the race

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

also why exactly is it banned to enter more than 2 cars ??

here Monza 1976 you can see 3 Ferraris in one shot

Ronnie Peterson in the middle in his March, he won the race

Because apart from super fans of the specific teams, no one wanted to see 3 Mercedes filling the podium during their dominant years and no one wants to see 3 Red Bulls filling the podium now.

Heck, the teams don't even want a new unproven competitor diluting their monopoly, so they are never going to want to let the already dominant force of the moment fill the podium race after race.

The weird and wonderful 3rd entries in the 70s and 80s are anomalies that were fine at the time but are certainly not needed any more.

F1 could use the sprint races to give young drivers a go and make them separate from the main championship, but that is perhaps a different idea for a different thread. .

[greentrumpet]

Or the Belgian GP 1961, first 4 cars all Ferrari!

[Richard C]

10 teams, 20 cars and they say they can't fit two more for Andretti (which is not true, but it is one of the arguments that is used). How will they fit an additional 10 cars into garage space? I think the requirements for circuits does ask for more than 20, but probably not as much as 30? Then can all teams afford to run three cars?

I think F1 would need to be significantly restructured in many ways to support three cars per team. I think the area to push would be to allow customer cars for smaller teams.

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I think F1 needs to be significantly restructured.

Richard

Fixed that for you.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Fixed that for you.

I can agree with that!

Richard

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I can agree with that!

Richard

Amen.
The present conundrum is purely artificial and at odds with the history of the championship.

[Vassago]

Originally Posted by steve_r

F1 could use the sprint races to give young drivers a go and make them separate from the main championship, but that is perhaps a different idea for a different thread. .

That's not gonna happen ever since F3000/GP2/F2 was put on the support bill of Grand Prix so all the young talent is on site to be looked at anyway. 28 F2 races is more than enough to recognize talent and give the fans a show. Plus it's much cheaper to have those ladder teams pay the crash bill.


The whole sprint idea concept was a completely useless swing for the fences since Red Bull's dominance actually profits from the extra points boost of these races. And nobody will approve reverse grids in F1 because that's pure hogwash gimmick at this level. Manufacturers don't spend millions of dollars for their cars to be put on the last row by design.

[bathurst77]

Originally Posted by Richard C

So all of that variability with drivers coming and going, teams switching chassis, power units, etc. Was that actually successful or was that just a bunch of enthusiastic and entertaining rabble at the tail end of the field just floundering about? I suspect the answer is that outside of an occasional nearly random success, they were just filling in the field. Why would anyone who was actually trying to win today do any of that? It would be suicide.

Plus as Alan52 calls out, the cost of doing that today would be astronomical. I really would love to see what it would have cost to run one of those 1970's teams in 2024 dollars. My assumption is the budgets would have been much smaller meaning it was probably easy for someone to scrape up enough funds to run a bit and have fun, but really have close to zero chance of winning. Or if the chance to win was higher, it was more down to the level of overall reliability back then being much worse. So that race results would have been more variable than today. A retirement of a car these days is a notable event!

Richard

In my mind there are a few ways around it

Have a 2 tier F1 franchise system.
Tier 1 "pro" is your traditional 2 car full entry guaranteed start in the race etc as now.

Tier 2 "privateer" Much cheaper entry fee but you have to prequalify and only the top few get to race sunday and you dont have to attend every race, maybe a set minimum. The prequal session is televised like normal P123 sessions. P1 and P2 is for all entrants, then prequalify is t2 only on saturday morning. P3 and main qual is for T1 and the successful pre-qualifiers only. So the T2 cars get 3 televised on track sessions (and drive to survive interest), and if they make the sunday grid they get prime time tv coverage, for a cheaper buy in.

Allow customer cars, in T2, so they can buy a chassis of mclaren or RB etc and engine from honda, ford or whoever is in the game, or maybe even a company like Lola purely building chassis or engines for multiple customers.
Could end up with a Red bull chassis with a Merc engine or the like! (which would be highly embarrassing if they beat the Donor team)

Customer cars, a couple of pay to drive drivers and cheaper license and you have more cars, variety and interest, and more opportunity for new talent to get a look.

You could have restrictions on T2, no team can be in T2 for more than 3 years, they have to step up or step out, or a relegation system like many football comps have.

[bathurst77]

Another idea could be the current teams only but 3 car teams, with the 3rd car being a "juniors" car. totally different paint and sponsors to the main team, changing depending on whos in the car, with no single driver allowed to do more than 4 or 6 races a year in the car.

WCC points go only to your 2 best finishers each weekend.
(so if one of your main drivers has a shocker or DNF and your junior gets a top 10, the 3rd drivers points go towards WCC, but if all 3 cars re top 10 only the 2 best points count)

A youngster with budget to pay for a few races but not a whole year could buy a seat, plaster his stickers on the car, race a few selected events, then someone else next time. Or a team can give a "Lawson/Doohan" etc the car for a few races and a chance to show his stuff in the real world, without having to risk half of their whole years championship strategy.
Maybe only some races have facilities and pit enough for 3 car teams, so not every race has all 30.

For the teams they get cash from paid drivers, and a spare race-ready car at every track (Looking at YOU Mr V.) - Building 3 or 4 cars is not that much more expensive than 2 or 3. THe biggest cost is R&D testing, making the stamps etc.
They could even try new parts etc on car 3 and not risk the main game cars. More cars, more drivers, a way in for new faces etc, find the next Lewis/Max/Lando, lots of interest and lots for drive to survive to show.