[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[seanyb505]

So weird no one's using riley /s. And that stings even further knowing there's likely some company that has the ability to make a p2, but isn't legal.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

So weird no one's using riley /s. And that stings even further knowing there's likely some company that has the ability to make a p2, but isn't legal.

I understand that the Riley is the Multimatic and it will be used by Porsche, Audi, Lambo and Bentley.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

So weird no one's using riley /s. And that stings even further knowing there's likely some company that has the ability to make a p2, but isn't legal.

The original Riley P2 was a collaboration between Riley and Multimatic. Since the parts Riley were responsible for where quite ****, Multimatic eventually took over the whole car. Hence why it's now Multimatic instead of Riley.

[Speed-King]

Bentley LMDh not happening after all?

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/ben...o-le-mans-2023

[Graham Goodwin]

The writer of that piece initially headlined it as the Bentley CEO "rubbishing" our story.

In fact his quoted comments came before my story was written. The Australian story has been rewritten to more accurately reflect the timeline and the initial headline has been deleted

There are more ways of funding 'Works' programmes that the company concerned funding it!

Bentley programme is not confirmed - but then neither are a number of others yet that are more common currency. I stand by the story as it is written.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Koenigsegg

The original Riley P2 was a collaboration between Riley and Multimatic. Since the parts Riley were responsible for where quite ****, Multimatic eventually took over the whole car. Hence why it's now Multimatic instead of Riley.

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I understand that the Riley is the Multimatic and it will be used by Porsche, Audi, Lambo and Bentley.

You're right. I'm a complete idiot lol. Carry on nothing to see here folks!

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Napolis

We agree with Toyota.
The LMP2's have to be slowed down.
LMH Le Mans time will be 3:30
LMP2 has to be 3:40.
Without clear separation I don't see LMH or LMDh being viable.

P2s won't pose a threat, if Hypercars run semi-reliably. If the entire Hypercar field presents a totally shambolic performance, they absolutely deserve to be beaten by a lower class. The leaders should never have time for a full car wash and detailing in the pits

I don't see how anything above a 5 second stratification gap can be a problem for sustainability. Here's why.

LMH Le Mans pace will possibly be better than 3:30. Meanwhile LMP2 has been slowed down enough already to be around 3:40 mark anyway.

With the 2021 adjustments P2s lost around 2 seconds at Spa. Google says, P2 lap record at Le Mans is 3:27. Which means real pace was in the low 30s at best. I'd guestimate, 2021 adjustments put them in the high 3:30s.

Meanwhile, LMH pace at Spa was already higher than pre-2021 LMP2. Which will likely land them in the high 3:20s.

2020 Le Mans hyperpole gap between P1 and P2 leaders was under 10 seconds. Yet P2s never came even close to featuring at the top of the field.

Take 2010, then the leading petrol P1 car was 6 seconds off the pole in qualifying. In that era, did petrol cars ever interfere with the diesel party beyond the opening lap? Not really.

My estimates can be wrong, of course. If anyone has a better idea, please share.

[canaglia]

not to be taken as an absolute comparison but 2011 spa pole was 2.01.5... we could consider also a possible 2.01 or faster since peugeot's, that had been faster than audi's all the race long, weren't able to set decent qualifying timelaps.
2011 LM pole was in 3.25, so I think realistically LMH pole will be in 3.24-3.26 as well, with most of the time lost in porsche sector than any other part of the track compared to the recent past lmp1 performances.
At same time I think orecas/lmp2 pole could be in the range of 3.30 or slightly faster/slower since they still have a better aero counterbalanced by worse acceleration and top speeds.

It's difficult to predict race pace but LMH, or well toyota and 007 for sure, will get benefits on having longer stints and lmp2 pace will change according to the pro or am driver presence inside the car.
I don't think there will be many problems anyway... if until 2020 toyotas were going for a lonely ride after 15 minutes, this year at worst LMH will get a considerable gap from lmp2 after about 40 minutes when lmp2 will need the first refuel. The big overall difference is that from this years will be unlikely to see epic comebacks like the winning porsche in 2017

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by canaglia

At same time I think orecas/lmp2 pole could be in the range of 3.30 or slightly faster/slower since they still have a better aero counterbalanced by worse acceleration and top speeds.

Do LMP2s have better aero than last year to offset the power and weight deficiency compared to 2020? Tires are another question mark.

Pole time in the low 30s seems about fair. But in the race, they'll be considerably slower, I think.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Do LMP2s have better aero than last year to offset the power and weight deficiency compared to 2020? Tires are another question mark.

Pole time in the low 30s seems about fair. But in the race, they'll be considerably slower, I think.

oreca 07 (and ligier? can't remember if there are teams still running that car) will use same low drag bodywork used last year at LM, aerowise nothing changed but they will have a worse acceleration because of extra ballast and worse top speed because of power cut, even if I won't be surprised if 07 will be able to stay regularly >310-315km/h anyhow. What is lost on straights will be recovered on porsche sector. Race pace will be slower for anyone anyhow.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by canaglia

What is lost on straights will be recovered on porsche sector.

That's the word that threw me off earlier. You mean recovering against LMH. But what matters, I think, is how much slower P2s are compared to 2020 P2s. If they are considerably slower over a lap, let alone a race, we're okay.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

That's the word that threw me off earlier. You mean recovering against LMH. But what matters, I think, is how much slower P2s are compared to 2020 P2s. If they are considerably slower over a lap, let alone a race, we're okay.

I mean recovering compared to 2017-2020 lmp2 top performances.
This year lmp2 will be slower on straight but in theory as fast as past in porsche sector where lmp2 will recover most of time lost on straight.
During spa race I saved a short clip when HUD telemetry shown differences of toyotas and lmp2 speed at puhon and it was almost embarassing for LMH the difference of speedcornering

[Pandamasque]

Recovering =/= not losing.
Gaining weight and losing power won't make P2s faster in S3 (or any section for that matter). They may lose less in certain sections compared to others, but they will still lose time.

[canaglia]

I was meaning that compared to 2020 lmp2 will be slower on straights but could recover some pace because won't be that slower on porsche sector due aero.

To be more specific, most of time lost compared to 2017-2020 laptimes will be on straights. The exact opposite of what is going to happen for LMH.

[Mike E]

BMW thoughts

https://www.motorsport.com/formula-e...ula-e/6532503/

[joeb]

This doesn't seem to be a real proposition from all the other talk we've heard, but one of Lamborghinis new hypercars meets FIA crash test certification for the hypercar class.

https://carbuzz.com/news/lamborghini...ace-at-le-mans

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by joeb

This doesn't seem to be a real proposition from all the other talk we've heard, but one of Lamborghinis new hypercars meets FIA crash test certification for the hypercar class.

https://carbuzz.com/news/lamborghini...ace-at-le-mans

A hypercar racing in Hypercar?! A racing Lamborghini with a Lamborghini V12? Nah, that would make way too much sense. Better use an LMP2 with a Bentley V8 and a Duracell, just draw a bull on it, fans are too dumb to know a difference anyway.

[TF110]

Probably just a little too heavy for lmh but with recent bop, it might be ok

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

A hypercar racing in Hypercar?! A racing Lamborghini with a Lamborghini V12? Nah, that would make way too much sense. Better use an LMP2 with a Bentley V8 and a Duracell, just draw a bull on it, fans are too dumb to know a difference anyway.

Your reflection is very interesting, I would also like to see this car in LMH.
But as TF110 says, probably just a little too heavy for LMH.
I guess Stefan Ratel could already be thinking about how to recreate his GT1 with this car, the Bugatti Bolide, GMA T50 Lauda, ??Pagani Huayra R, Aston Valkyrie AMR Pro and the Brabham BT62, probably with gentlman drivers.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

Your reflection is very interesting, I would also like to see this car in LMH.
But as TF110 says, probably just a little too heavy for LMH.
I guess Stefan Ratel could already be thinking about how to recreate his GT1 with this car, the Bugatti Bolide, GMA T50 Lauda, ??Pagani Huayra R, Aston Valkyrie AMR Pro and the Brabham BT62, probably with gentlman drivers.

You mean a new GT1 class as the hypercar/LMDH was supposed to be when announced?

[canaglia]

I remember lamborghini sesto elemento was 999kg heavy and could realistically be even lighter without the AWD shafts.
Anyway don't think lamborghini is in the position to design and produce a LMH, likely will get a green painted multimatic-porsche.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I remember lamborghini sesto elemento was 999kg heavy and could realistically be even lighter without the AWD shafts.
Anyway don't think lamborghini is in the position to design and produce a LMH, likely will get a green painted multimatic-porsche.

Cmon, give them a little credit. Theyll definitely have different light assemblies

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by TF110

Cmon, give them a little credit. Theyll definitely have different light assemblies

Mk I Cortinas?

[canaglia]

from BMW CEO instagram

https://www.instagram.com/markusflas...dium=copy_link

We are back daytona 2023

[Simmi]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2021/0...programme.html

What a way to announce haha!