uk f1 tv coverage - sky, bbc and ch4

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I have not seen enough of Danica to know what she is like as a pundit really, Jenson is a bit grey as are most ex drivers, the best was Villeneuve!! Stirred it right up,. but we all know why!! I have seen Nico be excellent at times, but Hill, Chandhok, Davidson, all bland and just going through the motions, as they are probably told to.

It appears we value different things in our presenters, which will be why we have such opposite opinions on things.

I'm looking for decently well presented facts and information. You are wanting entertainment.

[flatlandsman]

I have just watched a few sort of 10 minute reviews etc. I really think people give Danica a hard time. You have to look at the bigger picture here. The sport is owned by America now, Sky is by far the biggest outlet for F1 globally, SHE is American, she is a woman, she has competed at a very high level and unlike plenty of other female presenters she has driven in very competitive series and in Indy terms won a race that was not lucky or gifted. She is about as close as it gets to an ex female F1 driver. And as far as it goes she looks great, she can present, she can speak well. These are all factors in modern sports presenting. Regardless of knowledge, experience.

As far as you say Akrapovic you are right to some degree, if I am paying that much money ( I am not and never will) to watch a sport I want to be both entertained and informed, do I find Croft entertaining? No, he is simply annoying, fake and has too much ego. I personally would give the host role to Pinkers, she can do it well, she has been in there for years now. I would lose Croft, Button, Davidson and the two SKY people is it Rachel and the Scottish guy, totally unnecessary. Streamline it, it only needs a few people.

[Greem]

Ant Davidson isn't paid to be entertaining, he's paid to be the excellent analyst that he is. Dispassionate, unbiased, highly experienced as both a driver and pundit.

Karun Chandok is a walking motorsport encyclopaedia. The reason he's so enthusiastic is that he just loves the sport, in any form, and he brings that along in everything he does. Bland he most definitely is not!

Rachel (Brookes) and the Scottish guy (Craig Slater) are both sports reporters. They do vastly more off camera than on, and without them the various shows would be a shadow of what they are.

We get it, you don't like the coverage. That's fine, there's no law against it, but for the love of the forum would you please stop demanding people justify why they do like things? You're beginning to sound like the stereotypical bloke who sits at the bar in your local, telling everyone who orders something why they shouldn't. It's tedious.

[EastonNeston]

The fact that Rachael Brookes and Craig Slater are "proper" news reporters adds massively to the coverage. It is a live sports news event, the presentation team are there to present the facts and explain what is happening, something that Ant D and Karun are also excelelnt at, especially as both competed for many years in the upper levels of the sport.

What doesn't add to the coverage, in my opinion, is the "Village idiot" act presenters, eg Kravitz, and before he was removed Johnny Herbert.

[flatlandsman]

I did not say I did not like the coverage. You did that I think. I am merely pointing out that you could easily lose a considerable number of them and miss very little from the footage. There are not many teams, most of the stuff they get is from PR people, do you really need two news reporters?

Do we really need 4 or 5 people to analyse every aspect of the race? I know there are a lot of hours of coverage at each race and the crew sort of come in and out with various other responsibilities, but it does seem rather tv person heavy does it not?

Interestingly Kravitz has been in the F1 pitlane for well over 20 years, why is he a village idiot, I really so no issue with him!! Herbert I could see why he was gone, but for certain fun aspects of the overall coverage they had he was a good addition, but they seemed to have moved into a more heavy, news based version of their coverage.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ant Davidson isn't paid to be entertaining, he's paid to be the excellent analyst that he is. Dispassionate, unbiased, highly experienced as both a driver and pundit.

Karun Chandok is a walking motorsport encyclopaedia. The reason he's so enthusiastic is that he just loves the sport, in any form, and he brings that along in everything he does. Bland he most definitely is not!

Rachel (Brookes) and the Scottish guy (Craig Slater) are both sports reporters. They do vastly more off camera than on, and without them the various shows would be a shadow of what they are.

We get it, you don't like the coverage. That's fine, there's no law against it, but for the love of the forum would you please stop demanding people justify why they do like things? You're beginning to sound like the stereotypical bloke who sits at the bar in your local, telling everyone who orders something why they shouldn't. It's tedious.

Brilliant

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I have just watched a few sort of 10 minute reviews etc. I really think people give Danica a hard time. You have to look at the bigger picture here. The sport is owned by America now, Sky is by far the biggest outlet for F1 globally, SHE is American, she is a woman, she has competed at a very high level and unlike plenty of other female presenters she has driven in very competitive series and in Indy terms won a race that was not lucky or gifted. She is about as close as it gets to an ex female F1 driver. And as far as it goes she looks great, she can present, she can speak well. These are all factors in modern sports presenting. Regardless of knowledge, experience.

So you like Danica because she's hot.

That's all well and good, you do you, but what matters for F1 presenters is what comes out of her mouth, which more often than not is drivel.

We have a female ex-racer and if that's what's important to you, attractive too - already in Naomi Schiff.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I really think people give Danica a hard time. You have to look at the bigger picture here. The sport is owned by America now, Sky is by far the biggest outlet for F1 globally, SHE is American, she is a woman, she has competed at a very high level and unlike plenty of other female presenters she has driven in very competitive series and in Indy terms won a race that was not lucky or gifted. She is about as close as it gets to an ex female F1 driver. And as far as it goes she looks great, she can present, she can speak well. These are all factors in modern sports presenting. Regardless of knowledge, experience.

.

And she thinks the world is controlled by lizard people.Giving complete nut jobs like this any sort of platform at all gives them some credibility and encourages people to go down that rabbit hole.
The world has enough crazy in it without increasing it.However it is Murdoch where crazed conspiracy passes as news and all morals come with a dollar sign integrated.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Skam85

So you like Danica because she's hot.

That's all well and good, you do you, but what matters for F1 presenters is what comes out of her mouth, which more often than not is drivel.

He has made it clear he doesn't like what comes out of the other presenters mouths because they are boring, apparently.

Maybe Karun should wear a dress.

[flatlandsman]

Oh dear, did I say I liked Danica because she is hot, I think I gave multiple reasons why having her on screen at times is worthwhile, but if you want to take that angle so be it, denying it is a factor is also silly because whatever you say, it is.

But mainly, she is there for her achievements and status among racing drivers, she certainly has far more clout in racing terms than Schiff who barely raced anything to a decent standard.

She has weird views on things, sorry, she is American, that explains that.

As far as not liking any of the other presenters, I have not said that, I merely said they could do with being thinned out a bit. Unless you want 15 people every weekend presenting the sport. We managed perfectly well with about 5 for decades!! F1 has always been fairly popular you know, this is not a recent phenomenon

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

She has weird views on things, sorry, she is American, that explains that.

What a way to stereotype [insult] a significant portion of the membership of this forum!!!

[EastonNeston]

There is a lot of work involved in producing 10-12 hours of live TV for 3 days, especially as they are working on a very spread out site and limited access to key participants. so the size of the broadcast crew is probably about right for what is needed.

[flatlandsman]

You are right, I cannot edit it unfortunately

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

What a way to stereotype [insult] a significant portion of the membership of this forum!!!

I'm not insulted, I find generalisations about Americans rather amusing.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Oh dear, did I say I liked Danica because she is hot, I think I gave multiple reasons why having her on screen at times is worthwhile, but if you want to take that angle so be it, denying it is a factor is also silly because whatever you say, it is.

But mainly, she is there for her achievements and status among racing drivers, she certainly has far more clout in racing terms than Schiff who barely raced anything to a decent standard.

She has weird views on things, sorry, she is American, that explains that.

As far as not liking any of the other presenters, I have not said that, I merely said they could do with being thinned out a bit. Unless you want 15 people every weekend presenting the sport. We managed perfectly well with about 5 for decades!! F1 has always been fairly popular you know, this is not a recent phenomenon

Nobody cares about what a TV presenter did on track in their past career because they are *checks notes* not on the race track anymore.

Villenueve is a World Champion but he's a bit of a muppet on screen. Ant Davidson and Karun scored a grand total of 0 points in their F1 careers but provide valuable and respected insights.

Danica provides nothing other than tokenism

[flatlandsman]

I would tend to disagree, people who have raced can add a certain amount of their experience to situations and compare to things that occurred during their careers especially at the top level.

Danica is there for tokenism in many ways, she is American she is female, but she is also about the only driver in the world who has completed consistently at the very highest levels of motorsport, with varying degrees of success. You HAVE to accept this, it is now the norm in sports reporting.

As for Jacques, he has no dog in the race he doesn't work for F1, SKY or a team so he can say what he likes, and I find it hilarious! He cant offend anyone, so he can be brutal like SKY can not as they need their passes and meal tickets.

I value what KArun and Davidson say but overall is it really necessary? That is the point, it only is because you have 5 bloody hours of air time to fill. is THAT necessary too?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

As for Jacques, he has no dog in the race he doesn't work for F1, SKY or a team so he can say what he likes, and I find it hilarious! He cant offend anyone, so he can be brutal like SKY can not as they need their passes and meal tickets.

I value what KArun and Davidson say but overall is it really necessary? That is the point, it only is because you have 5 bloody hours of air time to fill. is THAT necessary too?

I find it interesting that you value what Karun and Davidson have to say, but find it unnecessary, whilst also thinking Jacques is great because he's offensive.

I can see why your opinion here is not marrying up with others opinions.

You also tell people they "HAVE to accept" what is the norm in sports reporting, yet you're unhappy with, quite literally, the norm in sports reporting.

This thread is in danger of no longer providing value.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Danica is there for tokenism in many ways, she is American she is female, but she is also about the only driver in the world who has completed consistently at the very highest levels of motorsport, with varying degrees of success. You HAVE to accept this, it is now the norm in sports reporting.

I'm really struggling to think of a single other person who's raced at the top level of multiple series internationally with (as you say) varying degrees of success.

Nope. Can't think of a single one.

Oh, wait a minute... That Button bloke did a few things with a modicum of success, didn't he? Like the NASCAR at Le Mans. Of course.

Oh, did you mean *female* drivers? Well, aside from Katherine Legge, Simona di Silvestro, Michelle Mouton and all the other female drivers in top level racing... Nope, can't think of any there either.

Or am I spectacularly missing your point?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Nobody cares about what a TV presenter did on track in their past career because they are *checks notes* not on the race track anymore.

Villenueve is a World Champion but he's a bit of a muppet on screen. Ant Davidson and Karun scored a grand total of 0 points in their F1 careers but provide valuable and respected insights.

Danica provides nothing other than tokenism

I don't think care is the right word, however people do have an interest in what a presenter did in their past sporting career. If someone is brought in as a commentator/pundit, who has competed at the top level of their sport, that in turn brings an element of authority and experience, which fans and casual viewers a like appreciate.

However, that person also has to be able to fulfill that role in front of a camera, which they might not find that easy, despite their sporting success, which is why some are good at it and some aren't.


As for Danica, she is the only woman driver to win a race in a top open wheel series, so in that regard, maybe she does provide nothing other than tokenism.

[flatlandsman]

The word missing is female, but I am sure your pedant-ism spectacularly missed that point, we all make mistakes. Mouton has no relevance to F1, neither does Legge who is still racing therefore unavailable. de Silvestro is a good shout, maybe still racing too, Danica is not clearly, so a better person to use. And in many parts of the world Danica is considerably better known than any of these drivers.

I am not sure I find Jacques offensive, I said I found him interesting as he has no defensive position in the sport, he just made points, calling out Stroll and Ricciardo for not being very good is hardly offensive, or is it these days? A wildcard able to sat what he wants with no fear of retribution makes for good tv surely?

And the issue I am trying to raise about Danica is that every large tv company will now have to have female presenters in their lineup, that is the part that has to be accepted. DO I like it, not necessarily as others say it is tokenism, but does she qualify as a presenter more than Davidon or Karun, probably not, but in modern tv I am sad to say it is likely those two would lose out in preference to a female ex racing driver presenter perhaps.

SKY seem happy to have ever more people on their staff. SO at the moment is it an issue, no. I simply think they could streamline their lineup more, but they do not want to.

[Richard C]

Lets put aside Danica's crazy personal beliefs. On paper she hits a lot of marks and "should" be ideal as flatlandsman has mentioned. She has raced in a few different top level series. She has had some minimal success. She is a recognizable name. And, I hate to call this out, but it works in her favor... she is attractive and presents well on TV.

For me, the issues are... She doesn't live up to the paper version of herself. I generally get the feeling that while she has significant experience, she is relatively not particularly knowledgably about racing. Or maybe better said, she seems to be less knowledgeable than she should be. Or maybe on camera she is not able to communicate her knowledge. This flows into the second issue which is she doesn't seem to actually be good on camera as a race commentator. I really don't know what value she "actually" adds.

I fully recognize that is a hard job. But just like racing, some are good, some are not. While I think I could occasionally come up with insightful or pithy comments as a commentor, I would also likely in general be quite bad as I would either find myself just watching and not talking, or not be able to say meaningful things when put on the spot on live TV!

Originally Posted by Greem

Oh, did you mean *female* drivers?

Sorry for the selective quote, but I am doing this just to set the context of the comment below...

We are focusing on the idea that to be a good F1 commentator that you need to have been a top level driver. Yes, they do bring a specific perspective. But F1 is much more than just what is going on in the head of the driver. For example, I very much enjoy Ruth Buscombe Divey's perspective as a former F1 race strategists. I think there is room for women in racing who participate at top levels, but in other roles to potentially be successful as commentators.

Richard

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I

it only is because you have 5 bloody hours of air time to fill. is THAT necessary too?

Do you actually sit there and watch the full 5 hours for every race, 20 times a season? I thought that from other threads that you did not actually like f1? But if you do sit there are watch the entire weekend coverage in its entirety, then no wonder you are fed up with it. I just watch the race. And occasionally a little build up and post race if anything interesting is going on.

Apart from Shouty Croft, from what I have seen they all do a reasonable job. And in fact as pointed out above, many of the drivers who have never raced in F1 or have never scored in F1 actually have better input than some of the former WDCs they have on.

Sky have a whole channel dedicated to the sport, so it stands to reason that their coverage will involve a team of presenters. That does not mean that you have to sit there an watch every minute of it, or that every minute of it is going to be top class.

When I first started watching F1, they used to have Murry Walker on his own and they used to interrupt race coverage to show swimming or the UK Bowles championships, or the 2:45 from Cheltenham etc.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

As for Jacques, he has no dog in the race he doesn't work for F1, SKY or a team so he can say what he likes, and I find it hilarious! He cant offend anyone, so he can be brutal like SKY can not as they need their passes and meal tickets.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

whilst also thinking Jacques is great because he's offensive.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I am not sure I find Jacques offensivee, I said I found him interesting.

This thread is becoming one users monologue of their opinion, which changes at every post.

You said you like that Jacque can offend people. I said that you said Jacques is offensive. You said he's not offensive.

I mean, what are we even discussing here? Now you're moaning the coverage is too long, and it's just filled with people you don't want to see. Why are you watching it then? You also say you don't watch it. So what actually is it? You seem to spend more time on here telling us how bad the coverage is then watching the coverage.

This thread has jumped the shark.

[Peter Mallett]

Just a reminder everyone, there is an ignore facility.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

As for Danica, she is the only woman driver to win a race in a top open wheel series, so in that regard, maybe she does provide nothing other than tokenism.

Its irrelevant in the commentary context, but just for the record Desiré Wilson might beg to differ.... She won an Aurora British F1 Championship race at Brands in 1980. She scored another 4 or 5 podiums in the series. Edit: checked and she scored 7 Aurora / British F1 podiums in 1979/80.
Away from open wheelers she also won in Sportscars....she won the 1980 Monza 1000km and Silverstone 6 Hours World Championship for Makes races, making her the first woman to have won an FIA world championship circuit race.
She was also the only woman to have been licensed to drive in a CART Indycars event.