My Tracks

[Duffacus]

Here is my boston one, i had to put my pits in the same place as mandretti39 coz i couldn't see an alternitive...what do you think? Ill post my version of Chaynes321's home town race shortly. Ive also made a track up on paint by itself but thats on hold right now!

[Chaynes321]

cool
oh and everyone calls me ... CG i prefer it

[Duffacus]

Here is my version of where CG lives, south-east london. Im not sure where to put the pits on this one either so i just put them down the main road! Dont know how much space is down there so i dont know if it would work or not.

[pirenzo]

where abouts in London is Welling CG?

i'll post my favorite track around my local roads later. It would never be built, as it's mostly residential, and also right next door to Crystal Palace Park, in which resides the old Crystal Palace track, that hosted major national and international races from 1937-39, and 1952-72.
Still, it would be an awesome track

[944turbo]

Definitely trees, Tim. Check out the same site on Mapquest with their aerial photos.

Actually, both our tracks would need a little paving, but very little. But the chicane's very much there, and looks even more awesome in close-up.

And yes, there are trees growing right up to the edges of the runways. This hasn't been a fully active airport for a long time. Mostly it's been cars and helicopters since JFK opened up across Jamaica Bay. The wildlife authorities, want to cut down a lot of the trees, though, to open up grassland on the site once again, to favor grassland birds.

Actually, those trees would kill the earlier discussion we had about lines of sight for spectators. Although that one I pointed out at the end of the 5000' runway would still be good.

But it wouldn't be like Burke, they'd need concrete barriers (or Armco) on the sides of many of the runways, roads and taxiways.

One of the runways we're both using will need resurfacing, though (the one that leads back onto the pit straight in my design). And there seem to be some built-up earthen mounds that would need to be removed as well.

[pirenzo]

here's my track using roads quite near me.

It's got some pretty extreme elevation changes, the only flat bit being the start straight, and the lowest point being the northmost hairpin.

The longest straight is very steeply downhill, and just before the bend near the bottom there's a railway bridge that the track sort of goes over producing a pronounced jump

[pirenzo]

about 1.8 miles only though BTW

[944turbo]

Originally posted by pirenzo
here's my track using roads quite near me.

Very nice! But... *looks at the right edge of the map*

[pirenzo]

And now to see if our mod really is just peeking in here once in a while A track around where he lives (or at least the town he lives in (unless there are two or more lymingtons)
I think a 48 hour Debora challenge ought to do.

[pirenzo]

dotted is bit of track that don't exist anymore.

Most of the track is half the width it used to be however, and the tarmac has been ripped up, and concrete set gravel put in instead. Oh, and the borders of the new paths have plant bed and not gravel beds(not that there ever were any gravle beds). Also, the grandstands around the running track are half on the track too....

[pirenzo]

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/MI/..._S.htm#packard

How about this for an abandoned airfield Tim!!

Just north of Detroit apparently. Built as an automobile proving grounds in 1921

Shallow banked oval, twisty track next door, a massive space on the infield, what more could you want!?! Not much of an airfield there though lol.

[pirenzo]

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/MI/..._MI_S.htm#ford

Or even this one! Michigan has lots of these places

[pirenzo]

http://www.airfields-freeman.com/IL/...IL_N.htm#meigs

Miegs field. I didn't know about it's fate. An outrage indeed!

[944turbo]

Lots of cities would kill for an airport like Meigs Field... Daly had one destroyed. Unbelievable. The ATC personnel at O'Hare and Midway must _love_ handling that extra load of light aircraft. In fact, with Meig's destruction, O'Hare is now the busiest airport in the country!

Yeah... Mayor Daly's a real piece of work, same as his father.

[944turbo]

Originally posted by pirenzo
Shallow banked oval, twisty track next door, a massive space on the infield, what more could you want!?!

A partially wooded lot, gently rolling topography, generous but not absurd runoff, smooth pavement, excellent freeway and commuter rail access, suburban location in a major and largely untapped market, seclusion from neighbors, especially residential development...

The last three are actually the important ones. Race tracks usually fail for the same reasons as airports: Poor location, poor access, and encroachment by development (which, of course, doomed Bridgehampton almost from day one... Goddamn idiot people buying homes next to a pre-existing race track, then complaing about the noise! )

[Tim Northcutt]

Notes to 944turbo and Pirenzo:

Thanks a million for the aerial photo link for Floyd Bennett, 944 turbo...I studied it thoroughly last night and have formulated a series of options for this circuit that would have to be considered based on my intense study of the condition of various surfaces and what could be done that would be feasible...see it below...and I'll speel out the color keys for you...

To Pirenzo...the Ford Airport is now a Ford Test Track.....but the Packard facility apparently sits dormant....I looked at those during my searches....


The color key to the image, that I call "Real Options":

The white indicates where pavement of some sort would have to be laid to make the surface race ready...that one wide stretch of runway that gos from the upper left corent of the circuit to the center, when you examine the closest possible aerial photos, would take a lot of paving to use...period...I have compleely ruled it out of my plans, unless I would get a long-term deal from NYC to race there......

The blue dotted lines are roads that could be part of the circuit, but they would have to be widened to make them equivalent to the stretches of road that 944turbo has considered on the right side of his circuits...

The red dotted lines are any number of race-ready roads that could be used for designs...

The orange signifies run-off areas...

[Tim Northcutt]

Now for my track:

In the center section where the runways criss-cross, I would not need to pave at all in reality, but I put dots in there just to give me a little cushion of pavement....note the big run-off area...

In the hour-glass section in upper right...I know you objected to this, but those runways are VERY wide....my barrier would be SAFER walls 5 ft high on the outsides of both sides, backed by tire barriers on both sides with a concrete center....the total barrier would be about 30 ft thick...IMSA wouldn't object to that, and if SAFER barriers can stop IRL cars going 235 m.p.h. on 90 degree turns, this system that would have added cushion by being backed with the tire barriers surely would pass muster with IMSA..

If you STILL object ot this hour-glass feature, I would just create a left-hand turn there...the straight would be about 4,000 ft. long...still long, wide and fast enough for me...

I got rid of the shepherd's crook turn in the middle right-hand side just to make it safer....

Notes to 944turbo:

I really like all of your ideas....when I looked at the reality of pavement conditions, I couldn't find a way to make your hairpin and switchback work without paving that one stretch of runway, and that would be expensive...

I also love the chicane on the right side...but it would only work if the track ran counter-clockwise....if you object to my hour-glass, there is no way IMSA would pass your chicane with that building that sits on the outside of your chicane if the course would run clockwise...

Here it is...I think this works, and it would not cost a lot to put it in...a big consideration for a promoter..

[944turbo]

Tim, one other thing... The sections you've marked off in blue... They're about as wide as a suburban street... Not a place to pass, but who's gonna pass there anyhow?

The scale's distorted because everything there is _so_ wide!



There are some photos from the ground here:
http://maxho.com/floydbennet/

[Tim Northcutt]

That width is why I think the hour-glass would have more than enough room...it is where two of those wide runways intersect.....every photo I have seen tells me that this place has so much racing room that I would have a huge margin of space from the apex of the corners to the SAFER Barrier set-up.....but I will make that a left-hander onto that straight if the objection still remains....

added note:

That's why I marked those blue areas for paving to make them wider....so that you could possibly pass and thus race there....

With a long-term agreement with the City for use of the facility, I probably would go ahead and pave those areas to create the wider avenues and race on them instead of going on the bigger loop....it would add some road course elements that this facility kinda lacks and would create some interesting combinations for the drivers...

Thanks again for your input.....and I do like your creativity on all of your designs....you have a true talent for this..as does Pirenzo...you both think outside of the box, but you have a good sense of reality in all of your designs....

[the_royksopp]

i don't really like 90 degree street circuits (u know) & i really hate airport circuits...

I REALLY have to agree there. I also tend to get bored by the avalanche of street at airport tracks coming on us right now. I am very happy that you new-to-the-thread guys are coming here, and are participating, but i simply cant comment on 10-15 boring street and airport tracks a day. Quality fantasy tracks, challenges and so on i will ofcourse comment and edit on, as well as post my own, but i will spare myself of the street tracks...

Has anyone of you ever tried to make a _normal_ racetrack? Its actually quite fun

[Tim Northcutt]

Question for 944turbo:

How does one go about copying an aerial photo from Mapquest???

Why I ask....

The true "Race-ready" airfield in a big mUS metro area from what I proposed in the original "Option for ALMS to Consider" is the Dallas NAS airfield...

On Mapquest, plug in this address:

100 Millennium Way
Dallas
TX 75211-9306

This airfield would make an incredible road circuit, and all of the facilities that would be used or Leased from the private company that runs it are in 1st Class shape...

But I want to draw my course on somtheing shot directly overhead, and the airfields-freeman site has one that looks kinda from the side behind the tarmac area....it does not give a great perspective of the true potential of this circuit...

Thanks!

[Tim Northcutt]

Here is a compromise for you, the royksopp:


Give this an open mind view, because this will be a "fantasy track...believe me...a from the ground up creation...

First, an old airfield hat has virtualy nothing left but some service road areas and remnants of the old runway....

[Tim Northcutt]

Now for the "Mobile Bay Motorsports Raceway"

[Tim Northcutt]

Nothing "90-degree street" or "boring airport" about that one, is there???

[944turbo]

Try right-clicking and saving the image, Tim. Or taking a shot of your screen. Instructions here:
http://homepage.mac.com/bradhopkins/...creenshot.html

Note: Mapquest will only give you the option of selecting aerial photos for some sites. Specific addresses often don't work. But they _have_ aerial photos of nearly the entire continental US, and much of the inhabited parts of Canada. Sometimes you'll have to pick a city nearby, or even the whole state, and zoom in manually.

The address wouldn't work in Mapquest. But I assume I'm supposed to be looking at Dallas Executive Airport? Yeah, great site. But I have reservations about the fan support in Dallas... They were never all that interested in the CART/Trans-Am weekend.

With the hourglass, even given how wide all of that is... You're subtracting twenty feet for the barriers, then cutting it in half... It's just not hardly enough runoff if someone has a blowout or a rear wing failure there. Sorry.

royksopp: Many, many times. But some of us actually do seriously aspire to someday have one of our tracks built. So we have to pick real-world sites, and work within the boundaries of physics, topography, safety, and even maintaining a reasonable budget. It's a much more rewarding challenge.

Right now, no one has the budgets to build real circuits except Hermann Tilke, so we go with what's available. That means streets, parks, and airfields.