[Tech Issue] 2011 Pirelli tyres

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Whatever happened to trying to work stuff out for yourself?

Could you tell the difference between Bridgestones soft and hard tyres?

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Could you tell the difference between Bridgestones soft and hard tyres?

Usually the one on softer tyres goes faster than the one with the harder tyres.
(not that a Red Bull on hard tyres would go slower than a HRT on soft ones, but who cares about HRT?)

Also the length of stints is a useful clue.


It's about as informative as James Earl Jones going "THIS IS CNN" when you bloody well know already.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

It's about as informative as James Earl Jones going "THIS IS CNN" when you bloody well know already.

This sort of reminds me of the blokes who reckon that they can tell each brand of beer from another, but never actually can when put to the test.

Most top teams (not including HRT) usually started on the softer tyre with a full fuel load, so the softer tyre was actually quite slow during that first stint, and then they went much faster on the hard tyre. Teams from 10th place back sometimes started on the hard tyre, which was much slower than the softer tyre during the first stint because they had a full fuel load. They then went faster on the soft tyre. Sometimes they even put the softer tyre on quite early on in the race because track position was more important than tyre degradation. Remember that all of Bridgestones tyre compounds actually got faster as the fuel came off!

During qualifying there was so little difference between even the 'step apart' compounds Bridgestone used that qualifying times were more down to car and driver rather than any great difference that the tyres would make.

Without the markings I don't think that anyone outside of the teams would have been very sure who was on what tyre in 2010.

I would also suggest that Pirelli get rid of the markings so that we can then all read some good conspiracy theories as to why driver so-and-so was hampered in their efforts to win the race.

We could even have a "Who's on what tyre?" poll.

[ASCII Man]

Originally Posted by Marbot

This sort of reminds me of the blokes who reckon that they can tell each brand of beer from another, but never actually can when put to the test.

That's just because they're bad at it, or drunk.
Or both.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Could you tell the difference between Bridgestones soft and hard tyres?

If you pay attention over the race weekend you can yes. It is strikingly obvious.

But no, let's paint the tyres red.

[JeremySmith]

Personally I did not think we needed to know what compound they are running. But it's a good compromise, at least they are not going to paint the entire sidewall of the tyre a different colour..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

If you pay attention over the race weekend you can yes. It is strikingly obvious.

But no, let's paint the tyres red.

If we relied on information from the pit lane as to what tyre was going to be used, and coloured markings were not in use. Then I'm pretty sure that most teams would remain somewhat 'tight-lipped' about their tyre choice. We would then be left to guess what was going on, along with the pundits and everyone else.

Does anyone need to be asking Michael Schumacher what tyres he will be starting his race on again?

So maybe it's a useful thing to have?

But no, let's keep it dark.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If we relied on information from the pit lane as to what tyre was going to be used, and coloured markings were not in use. Then I'm pretty sure that most teams would remain somewhat 'tight-lipped' about their tyre choice. We would then be left to guess what was going on, along with the pundits and everyone else.

Does anyone need to be asking Michael Schumacher what tyres he will be starting his race on again?

So maybe it's a useful thing to have?

But no, let's keep it dark.

I think it's fine and a good choice by Pirelli...

[Bononi]

Uhn... I don't know.

The colors like this, the logo and so... looks very... italian.

But come on, people will be really keeping a note with the colors and their classification and saying "Oh yeah he's on soft".... come on, it sounds unlikely, it's calling too much attention for the tyres thing... Pirelli is an attention seeker !

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, Formula One Circus !!!!!

[Marbot]

Like it or not, the the tyres are going to play a big part in this seasons races. And yes, many will be interested in just who has what tyre on his car as the race progresses. For those that like strategy, there's nothing better.

Also remember that Pirelli may be inviting the wrong kind of attention. But I'm sure that they have an 'hard as iron' tyre on standby should anything go wrong with the 'plan'.

[Bononi]

That's right, this is very tiresome...

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by Bononi

That's right, this is very tiresome...

*groan*

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

If we relied on information from the pit lane as to what tyre was going to be used, and coloured markings were not in use. Then I'm pretty sure that most teams would remain somewhat 'tight-lipped' about their tyre choice. We would then be left to guess what was going on, along with the pundits and everyone else.

Does anyone need to be asking Michael Schumacher what tyres he will be starting his race on again?

So maybe it's a useful thing to have?

But no, let's keep it dark.

Do we have to know though. A bit of intrigue and trying to guess is good. You can generally tell who is on what, but sometimes not. That is good.

But no, we know before a driver stops what tyre he will be using.

We need to do away with mandatory use of compounds and this silly colouring system. It annoyed me in the death throes of Champcar but this is another level entirely. What a great era this is. Only one manufacturer allowed and that manufacturer can only make tyres that fall to bits rather than push the boundaries of technology an we must have markings that tell us the difference between full wets and inters. I weep for this sport.

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I weep for this sport.

weep for the people in Japan or Libya, F1 is going to be more exciting than ever this year

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

What a great era this is. Only one manufacturer allowed and that manufacturer can only make tyres that fall to bits rather than push the boundaries of technology an we must have markings that tell us the difference between full wets and inters. I weep for this sport.

I think that it's become obvious that in order for any tyre manufacturer to continue to push the boundaries of technology, you would most definitely have to have races without tyre stops and tyres that lasted 5 or 6 races. Something along the lines as to what is being done with engines and gearboxes. I think that Michelin had something like that in mind.

Even when Michelin were battling with Bridgestone, there was always that artificial way in which the two tyre companies only needed to make a tyre that lasted until the next refuelling stop.

And as we all know, when there are no stops during a race for either fuel or tyres, they can be rather processional. And if you are racing on tyres that are expected to last for 5 or 6 races, there isn't going to be a lot of difference in the performance of each manufacturers tyres until maybe the last couple of races that they are expected to last for.

Although some wouldn't believe it, Pirelli can definitely make a tyre that lasts for 5 or 6 races. The difficulty comes when you then have to compete with another manufacturer that's doing the same thing that you can, but is also trying to make tyres that are faster as well.

Paul Hembrey -Pirelli
“We have to communicate very clearly our priorities and objectives in Formula 1, which is to fulfil the brief handed to us by FOM and FOTA to promote overtaking,”
“Because of that we have constructed a tyre that is designed to last for about 100 kilometres (62 miles), which should lead to two pit-stops per race on average. Naturally, that doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of building a tyre that will last a whole race or even five or six races – in fact, it would be considerably easier to do so."
“Instead, we want to do something to help the show a bit, but we need to make it clear that the wear characteristics of these F1 tyres are completely different to those of our road car tyres because they are built to do two entirely different jobs. It’s like comparing mozzarella cheese to parmesan and we are very clear about this.”

[HughGJohnson]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Paul Hembrey -Pirelli
“We have to communicate very clearly our priorities and objectives in Formula 1, which is to fulfil the brief handed to us by FOM and FOTA to promote overtaking,”
“Because of that we have constructed a tyre that is designed to last for about 100 kilometres (62 miles), which should lead to two pit-stops per race on average. Naturally, that doesn’t mean that we’re not capable of building a tyre that will last a whole race or even five or six races – in fact, it would be considerably easier to do so."
“Instead, we want to do something to help the show a bit, but we need to make it clear that the wear characteristics of these F1 tyres are completely different to those of our road car tyres because they are built to do two entirely different jobs. It’s like comparing mozzarella cheese to parmesan and we are very clear about this.”

I'm quite sure Pirelli can make a very durable tire if they wanted. At least I was untill they started to use any excuse to boast that they could make tires to last the whole race. Then it was the whole weekend and now almost 1/3 of the season! They protest too much and I'm sick of hearing them talk about it. I have a solution to this and a few other problems.

Pirelli can make their 'good for the show tires' and make their 'forever' tires, too. Hopefully the show tires will produce exciting racing with strategy and tire management at a premium. Then give each car one set of 'forever' tires to last the whole season and let the teams test on them. That way they can have more testing, while still keeping it within reason. That would also give Pirelli something tangible to brag about. The teams could also give their young drivers a shot and maybe actually test a part before Friday race testing.

Most importantly F1 fans wouldn't have to hear Pirelli brag about what they could do.

[Marbot]

I believe that Pirelli are bringing more tyres for the teams to test on during the practice sessions. Whether or not the teams would want to test on 'forever' tyres is another matter. Good idea though.

[Marbot]

As we know, Pirelli are no strangers to brightly coloured tyres (Benetton B186).

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Marbot

As we know, Pirelli are no strangers to brightly coloured tyres (Benetton B186).

Are you sure that wasn't taken at the Cellnet F3 Superprix?

Come on now.....

[Try Hard]

To dive in, I've just been reading the interview with Paul Hembery over on Autosport.com, and I have to say... hugely impressed with the attitude they have taken. For example, this quote (talking about how the tyres are wearing being an integrated feature)

Originally Posted by Autosport.com

Nothing shows this better than taking a closer look at the way the tyres degrade over a long stint. If you analyse tyre data figures from testing you will see that the tyres have a one or two lap window of peak performance, then drop off quite a bit before entering a phase of steady degradation. After a certain time, however, the lap times then drop off considerably - perhaps by as much as three to four seconds per lap.

That timing data has been said by some to be evidence of Pirelli not being able to create a tyre that can last longer than that. However, Hembery reveals that such dramatic drop-off is a deliberate design feature - because it is produced due to the tyres wearing down to a harder [and therefore slower] compound.

"That big drop-off period is when drivers need to change the tyres, and that is on purpose. That is their warning sign!" says Hembery.

"If all you had was wear and very light degradation, then the risk is you don't know when you have got to change. So the point of that is that when you hit the big drop-off, it is because you are starting to use a different compound. It is a message: to go change! You don't want drivers going beyond that point, because that is when you have integrity issues.

"It is a material thing – so you see, we have done some intelligent things..."

That, in my opinion, is pretty darn clever thinking... and have gone about it in the right way, specifically stating that the tyres are designed to degrade. Even the most general of fans should be able to grasp this concept, and the more educated of us should have no issues

Have to say, if any driver whinges about the tyres this year, their getting no sympathy from me!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Are you sure that wasn't taken at the Cellnet F3 Superprix?

Here's another pic of the same car. It appeared at the 1986 Detroit GP.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Here's another pic of the same car. It appeared at the 1986 Detroit GP.

Different number and different driver though?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

Different number and different driver though?

So they are. The tyre wall colors are slightly different as well. The #20 car has a blue front right tyre wall and a green left rear tyre wall.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

So they are. The tyre wall colors are slightly different as well. The #20 car has a blue front right tyre wall and a green left rear tyre wall.

They look like they have different compounds across the axles too, or is it just rainbow paint with no meaning?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

They look like they have different compounds across the axles too, or is it just rainbow paint with no meaning?

Maybe so. Here's the #20 car again, this time with another tyre wall/color combination, so quite possibly trying out different compounds?