My Tracks

[pirenzo]

Ah, forgot about you RG!

[mandretti39]

Me too, P!

[the_royksopp]

Ohh, that Denmarkring sure SUX

[the_royksopp]

And while we are in the nostalgic mood, pirenzo, ya actually posted over 1000 posts in this thread!

Total Posts: 3,753
User Posts
pirenzo 1013
the_royksopp 568
Lustigson 424
Chaynes321 276
Lee Janotta 250
mac 131
RacerGuy2 128
mandretti39 103
DNQ 94
Fish_Flake 88
hakkiman 86
Panzer32 74
Antrodemus 56
Tim Northcutt 54
Jordi 48
bcobbus 45
Speed Demon 43
ASCII Man 24
Duffacus 24
Matthopps 20
knowlesy 17
944turbo 17
McKay 12
Aysedasi 11
Hamann 11
Speed Freak SF 11
pmccormick 11
crozier74 10
Number Juan 9
Tristan 8
rdjones 7
Edmonton 7
alfasud 6
Omega99 5
Blanchimont 4
billnchristy 4
#15 tkm 4/ 4
Damon 3
MagnetON 3
Big Mac 3
golem 3
nicholaswhite 2
FastJoel31 2
Cougar21 2
Shinners 2
Rutle 2
wildride 2
carbsmith 2
sirhc 2
PeppeF1 2
diz 2
Peter Mallett 1
Crash Test 1
Guy Humpage 1
Minardi fan 1
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macdaddy 1
cybersdorf 1
Mark F1 1
cos 1
Sim_Da_BTCC_Man 1
Sherman 1
Tye 1
emmer 1
Johnny thunders 1
moffman 1
jmaroull 1
Andy Trott 1

[Tim Northcutt]

Thanks pmccormick, and I like your revision of Walesboro, Pirenzo...

Something that I try to do when I desing an airport circuit, however, is that I try to put the paddock as close to the pits as I possible can....that way, if a team does need to go "behind the wall," they can push it to an access point that will get them easily to the paddock area....

Kinda like the way "Gasoline Alley" sits behind the main grandstands (Tower Terrace) at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and the way the paddock is directly behind the pits at Sebring....


Note to pmccormick:


For the Floyd Bennett circuit, if it will help, the longest two runways (the one that runs across the top of the image and the one where I have my pit road) are 5,000 ft. long each....

Would that give you some sort of a scale to work from????

I'm particularly interested in knowing the Floyd Bennett length...if have reasons for knowing it that I may share with all in the coming weeks or menths, depending on how things go....

[Tim Northcutt]

Note to Pmccormick:

I made an error in the previous post....

The two runways that are 5,000 ft. long each are:

The one that runs across the top of the Floyd Bennett Image, and the second one is the one that runs diagonal through the center of the airfield image...it is the "complete" runway that crosses the middle of the picture....

[pmccormick]

Here is a very weak attempt to measure Floyd Bennett. Again, the program does not show the runways, so the only points of reference are the land/water boundary and the road to the left. I'll put some thought into how to measure this more accurately.

Anyway, track length is around 4.25 miles. Note, pit straight is around 1.0 miles, so may be a problem if you are abiding by the "<1.0 km straight" rule.

Also, I am assuming this is the latest FB design. I went back through the recent pages and I think this was the last one you posted.

[Tim Northcutt]

That's pretty close, pmccormick...thanks!!!!!


That size of circuit, to me, is ideal for an ALMS race....

I thought that the straights might be a little long, but nothing that a couple of obtuse-angled (as flat as I could make them) "kinks" that would be connected by a few hundred feet of straightaway wouldn't alleviate....thus the cars could still race at fairly high speds in these sections without having to really slow down and bottle up the action behind them....

I appreciate it....

[pirenzo]

sorry Mandretti Probably other i forgot too but there's an awful lot of people who've posted here!

As for my 1013(1014 now) posts in this thread, well, that's just amazing. This has got to be my "main" thread hasn't it?

Tim, Walesboro. I intended the paddock to be in the space directly behind the pits. I know it's not paved or anything, but that could be sorted out, and since you used that area for your attempt anyway....

[Tim Northcutt]

In that case, I like virtually all aspects of that circuit...

in my design for Walesboro, I went into the grass areas with pavement to add some additional features, but also to take advantage of some unique elements that the pavement did offer...like the "u-shaped loop at the bottom of the runway area that runs fairly vertical in this image...

I've doe a couple of others in recent days, and I'll post something to give you additional looks...

I'll also play with the exisiting pavement to see what I can come up with...

[Tim Northcutt]

Here is a version that looks a little faster than what I previously posted.....

Note that the curve on the upper left portion of this circuit would be a 12 degree banked curve, so that once the racers left that"u-shaped" section on the existing pavement, they could get up some pretty good speed and really race through the banked curve and down the following straight before going into the two wider-looping carousel type corners and returning to the existing pavement....

[the_royksopp]

A bit squeezed, runoffwise?

[Tim Northcutt]

Not base don the size and the widths of those runways.... the course runs anti-clockwise...

I could actually draw in the tire barriers and the gravel traps, etc., but remember, the turn at the top of the image to the left is a 12-degree banked corner that would have a SAFER barrier wall and a catch fense, and the banking would make the turn much higher than the other corner that is to the right of it....

There is plenty of room between the 90-degree turn on the runway that crosses over to the taxiway in relation to the road that comes back up towards the banked curve...just split the difference with a tire barrier there and it would be fine...

The same goes for the big looping curve in relation to the stretches of the course that go from teh hairpit up to the bankjed curve...just split the difference with tire barriers and put a gravel trap betweein the barriers and the roadway on both sides of the barrier...

Runoffs should be at least 100 ft, if not more, based on the proportions of thsi image...

In the uppoer right, I could just shorten up that stretch of track to give it more room....that would not be a problem...

[pirenzo]

Originally posted by Tim Northcutt
Not base don the size and the widths of those runways.... the course runs anti-clockwise...

I could actually draw in the tire barriers and the gravel traps, etc., but remember, the turn at the top of the image to the left is a 12-degree banked corner that would have a SAFER barrier wall and a catch fense, and the banking would make the turn much higher than the other corner that is to the right of it....

There is plenty of room between the 90-degree turn on the runway that crosses over to the taxiway in relation to the road that comes back up towards the banked curve...just split the difference with a tire barrier there and it would be fine...

The same goes for the big looping curve in relation to the stretches of the course that go from teh hairpit up to the bankjed curve...just split the difference with tire barriers and put a gravel trap betweein the barriers and the roadway on both sides of the barrier...

Runoffs should be at least 100 ft, if not more, based on the proportions of thsi image...

In the uppoer right, I could just shorten up that stretch of track to give it more room....that would not be a problem...

Walls are not safe in head-on collisions. In side on impacts they're better, which is why they're used for banked Ovals. The tighter a corner you have, the higher the angle (ie, the accident will be more head-on than side-on)
I believe this was a complaint amongst NASCAR driver at one of the shorter 1 mile ovals this year. A relatively tight corner coupled with only a few degrees of banking made drivers feel as though they were driving straight on at a solid wall when aproaching the turns.

[the_royksopp]

aha

[Tim Northcutt]

That's why New Hampshire International Speedway put in SAFER barriers, Pirenzo.....

I'm fully aware of that....

The idea of the banked curve based on the combination that the cars will be coming out of before entering it would not be a dangerous corner....

I could make it a flat curve and put in the usual gravel traps and the tire barriers 120 ft. beyond it, but the circuit would not offer as much in the way of speed and racing/passing opportunities as the current layout with the banking does...

I'd make that change, but being a guy who has watched racing on ovals in the US, and who knows people here in the racing business, that corner would not be a problem or a safety hazzard, especially with the SAFER barrier...

BTW...The banked curve would be 3 lanes wide to coincide with the width of the other sections of the course....

For whatever it is worth....

[pirenzo]

is SAFER some sort of accronym?

[Tim Northcutt]

It is....I'd have to look up the exact words which make up the acronym, but they are the new technology walls developed by the Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the University of Nebraska's School of Engineering.....pretty amazing results achieved with them for safety in auto racing.....

[Tim Northcutt]

SAFER is the acronym for "Steel And Foam Energy Reduction" barrier....

[pirenzo]

I thought when you said SAFER barriers i thought you were trying to make some kind of point about a concrete wall being safer than a run-off area with a tyre barrier and catch fancing.... Might be true in some situations, but i made my comment in response to that, now i realise you're talking about the type of barrier, i widthdraw those somewhat defiant comments. Doh!

[Tim Northcutt]

That's fine, Pirenzo...



We share many ideas on many different forums and I always enjoy reading your posts and the many ideas you present, both in this particular thread ans well as the racing forums....

I guess there wouldn't be a bunch of info in Europe on the SAFER barriers with so few ovals over there....

But the technology is extremely good....

It would be an essential part of the "Hour-Glass" section of the Floyd Bennett Field track I had propsed...if you remember reading how I would use it in that circumstance (SAFER Barrier, Tires behind it, and concrete in the middle, but about 15 feet inside of the structure)

These walls not only absorn and slow the car at impact, but they deflect it ti dissipate energy and impact, unlike tires, which can grab the car on impact....

I should have made my point clearer...sorry about the confusion...

[pirenzo]

No probs Tim.

I'd agree there's little info over here. In Europe there are basically just two ovals. The last Oval we had in britain before Rockingham/Corby was Brooklands. And that had an extremely effective barrier. trees. Though one time one car ended up on the road below, and there was a huge outcry that some of the paying public ight have been injured. So they planted more trees and moved the road further away

I don't think Corby has SAFER barriers though.

I think they're much like a Conveyor belt tire barrier is to an ordinary tire barrier. ie just as good, but also having a stronger outer sheel if you like that stops the grabbing effect. I do think that ultimately most tracks will have to be built, where road or oval with some sort of system similar to SAFER. The benefits in maintainance, no rebuild needed after an impact, and probably near equal, if not better (in the situation that they're used for road courses, we already know that they're safer already for ovals) safety in the future when used correcty will mean that circuits will begin to adopt them.

[the_royksopp]

So, ladies and gentlemen, give it up for my latest track:

*drums*

Lübben Autodrom...

Firstly, the graphic version...



Now, the simple "easy-edit" version.



Yes, it looks a bit like my previous track, but i focused on it being a bit less squeezed...

All tracks run counter-clockwise. Note the oval. Southern corner is banked, northern corner isnt.

[Tim Northcutt]

Only one note:

Would your pit lane entrance put those cars in the racing line through those corners????

If you feel that it would, I would suggest an "Inside Pit Lane" that exits the trac from the long straghtaway on the upper-right side of your image....

Many US Ovals use a pit lane like this that gets cars out of the racing line at the end of the backstretch and brings them around to the pit lane...it is a very safe and effective way to approach it....

Otherwise...what an Awesome Circuit!!!!!!

and I like the idea that you considered a banked corner as part of the layout....

I wish that Monza would have kept their banked curve as part of their course....but I understand that trees are now growing up in it....

[pirenzo]

the sheer cost of making that Oval safe was too high to keep it open. After Von Trips was killed most of the F1 drivers said that they'd never want to race on it again....