[WEC Race] WEC 2024: Round 6 - Lone Star Le Mans

[Gerard C]

Thank you. Yes Alpine has strong and consistent drivers. Now they should let the start to Milesi if he's the best during Q.

[Adam43]

Another way to look at the spread. This time ordered by marque.

Each circle is the Top 50 average lap times from that car. Orange line is the median.

The slowest laps can be influenced by a disrupted race.

What are the takeaways?

• As always it is close!
• Even ignoring the disrupted #12 Porsche race the spread of this marque is as wide as the median difference of most others.
• Obviously ignoring Lamborghini (still finding their feet) Peugeot (still Peugeot)

Again, if anyone spots anything or has a suggestion I am up for it.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Another way to look at the spread. This time ordered by marque.

Each circle is the Top 50 average lap times from that car. Orange line is the median.

The slowest laps can be influenced by a disrupted race.

What are the takeaways?

• As always it is close!
• Even ignoring the disrupted #12 Porsche race the spread of this marque is as wide as the median difference of most others.
• Obviously ignoring Lamborghini (still finding their feet) Peugeot (still Peugeot)

Again, if anyone spots anything or has a suggestion I am up for it.

One thing that this data shows, is that 1 car manufacturers are difficult to BOP. If you look at the top 50 laps per car with the manufacturers that have 2 cars, there is always a spread.

So we can't be sure if we were seeing the "slower" Cadillac and the "slower" Lamborghini if they had 2 cars. The 2 car mandate for next year will be a good thing for the BOP.

[TF110]

Koby was the only driver in the #7 to double stint. In sc365's post-race write up, the team said that was on purpose because of the heat and Kobayashi was part of that decision (team principal and all)

[Adam43]

“I can make it”

Did he take on new tyres when he stopped in the middle of the double?

[TF110]

Probably, but we would have to look at the pit stop time.

[S griffin]

Excellent analysis as always Adam.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by TF110

Probably, but we would have to look at the pit stop time.

I think possibly just two tyres were taken.

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I think possibly just two tyres were taken.

literally watching the full race on YT right now. Took 4 new tyres when they did the undercut.

[Adam43]

Thank you.

On this here you can see how the battle progressed.

[Matador]

Thank you for your service @Adam43

[Matador]

Looking back at the incident between Buemi and Estre. Buemi has taken a lot of heat in the court of public opinion, but in my opinion, what Estre did was just as bone headed.



Especially silly on Buemi's part is that KE should have had to have ceded the place as he was fully all wheels off the track passing.


In the initial move onto the racing line, Buemi did slam the door shut, but KE was not forward enough to have the right to room on the outside.



Case of Dumb and dumber, but the #8 bore the brunt of the consequence of the actions, somewhat deservedly I suppose as the severity of what the worst case scenario of that outcome could have been.

[Gerard C]

Proof in the clafoutis aux pruneaux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTWnSLMfVQI

[Adam43]

It was on a straight. I know there is a kerb there, but it wasn’t in the middle of a corner. In the court of 43 I’m giving him the heat!

[flatlandsman]

I struggle to see what Estre did wrong, I know he is not exactly the bastion of safe driving, but he got far better drive off the hairpin, was already on the rear wheel of Buemi and the Swiss idiot just kept on going left, OK, maybe the only thing in his favour was that he may not have known that kerb would lift him slightly but he should not really have been there in the first place.

Estre did very little wrong, what else could he do? Should he have backed off, no because no driver in Hypercar or GT would, Buemi should not have pushed him there when he KNEW he was already alongside, even only by say a meter, you can NOT take that much of a liberty, Buemi is the epitome of mercurial for me. often amazing, but occasionally idiotic. Much like Estre aswell to be fair, but this time for me 100% of the blame is on Buemi

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It was on a straight. I know there is a kerb there, but it wasn’t in the middle of a corner. In the court of 43 I’m giving him the heat!

Ultimately it ended on the straight, but it was coming out of a hairpin, with a GT car in front. As I said, the initial move was on Buemi, but Estre also fully sent it.

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I struggle to see what Estre did wrong, I know he is not exactly the bastion of safe driving, but he got far better drive off the hairpin, was already on the rear wheel of Buemi and the Swiss idiot just kept on going left, OK, maybe the only thing in his favour was that he may not have known that kerb would lift him slightly but he should not really have been there in the first place.

Estre did very little wrong, what else could he do? Should he have backed off, no because no driver in Hypercar or GT would, Buemi should not have pushed him there when he KNEW he was already alongside, even only by say a meter, you can NOT take that much of a liberty, Buemi is the epitome of mercurial for me. often amazing, but occasionally idiotic. Much like Estre aswell to be fair, but this time for me 100% of the blame is on Buemi

No, no driver would back out, just like Bamber didn't in... Spa was it?


And no, Estre was NOT in fact alongside him. he was on his rear wheel.

[Adam43]

I’m not seeing it. It was way out of the corner when it happened and the GT car didn’t mean it had to get to the edge of the track.

At Spa the track was a lot narrower and the cars boxed in. No boxed in here, plenty of room. And way before the GT car too.

[TF110]

he squeezed him, and it looks like by the time he was fully alongside the Porsche is out the track. But you're supposed to leave space, correct? Silly move by Buemi, but also kinda too late for Estre to move the other side.

[Matador]

Guys, I'm not say Buemi isn't at fault for initiating the incident. I'm saying Estre didn't act any less idiotic.



You can even tell from the way the commentators reacted that they probably felt that way too.


Anyway, that's my perspective and opinion, no one is obliged to share it

[flatlandsman]

What was telling was the look on Buemi's face, that spoiled brat look, then he made it worse by ignoring blue flags. I will say another thing, and sorry, again Buemi 100% to blame and I doubt you will find many who think otherwise.

Again the rules are the same for everyone, but a drive through for disrespecting yellow flags, OK fair cop, but if all you have to do is lift the gas, is that really slowing you down much? Is that really helping the track crews that much? Is that really fair to ram a 30 second penalty on for such a minor transgression, and even then, it happened about 2 bloody hours before it was issued!" so the crew have no chance at all to push and make up any time.

I am sorry but the stewarding here left a lot to be desired

[Gerard C]

Originally Posted by Matador

You can even tell from the way the commentators reacted that they probably felt that way too.
Anyway, that's my perspective and opinion, no one is obliged to share it

Your opinion is valid of course mine is that I don't care so much about what commentators can say unless it's proven that they did some marshalling and races themselves. I must admit they have some moments to find the right words when they see this kind of action: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y9v4l

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Matador

Guys, I'm not say Buemi isn't at fault for initiating the incident. I'm saying Estre didn't act any less idiotic.



You can even tell from the way the commentators reacted that they probably felt that way too.


Anyway, that's my perspective and opinion, no one is obliged to share it

As far as I saw the only commentator who defended it was Anthony Davidson, who is a former Toyota driver...and winner of the 2014 WEC Championship with his teammate, Sebastian Buemi....So forgive me if I'm going to take that with a grain of salt...No one else blamed Estre.

They made contact on the straight because of Buemi's swerving. Buemi would never have been punished if Estre backed out. Buemi got what he deserved twice. The first was a puncture, the second was the penalty.

[Adam43]

I don’t recall Ant defending him. Just said he was desperately defending initially. Here is the pudding:

Originally Posted by Gerard C

Proof in the clafoutis aux pruneaux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTWnSLMfVQI

None of the commentators on this feed reacted that is was Estre’s fault. I don’t know about RLM.

Whatever, we are laboring this. Public or non public puts the blame on Buemi and not Estre. People with his team don’t think it was down to Buemi. I for one fully support Estre keeping his foot in. There was plenty of room even if it meant he was forced off track and that kind of bullying Schumacher esque defending needs to be stamped out of the sport.

[chernaudi]

And I think back to two events in 2007 in the ALMS, namely St. Petersburg where Romain Dumas blocked Allan McNish and tried to run him into the pit wall. That lead to IMSA ruling that after LM, when the green flag comes out, you go. You don't, whatever happens, happens.



Also, Stefan Johannson threw an insane block and Marco Werner at Laguan Seca later that season, and got drilled and got a puncture. He then was nailed (due to the puncture) by a Dyson Porsche and knocked off the road. IMSA ultimately parked Johannson for the rest of the race for his blocking and aggressive driving.



And for incidents including St. Pete, IMSA penalized Dumas following Mosport, initially fining him $25,000, and penalizing him 6 drivers' championship points, though the points penalty and $20K of the fine was suspended until the end of the season as long as he didn't draw the ire of IMSA race control until season's end (basically putting him on probation for the rest of the season).


Point is that in general, throwing blocks like that (and like what Buemi did) is highly frowned upon by most race directors, and if you get taken out, it's basically your fault.


And yes, the point is being labored and dragged out. However, I'm posting this just to demonstrate that there has been a precedent for this for quite a few years, namely that the blocker is responsible for anything that happens, including his demise as far as being a factor in the race if it comes to that. Most of the responsibility for a clean overtake is with the overtaking car/driver, but it doesn't excuse the one being passed from making idiotic, dimwitted or hamfisted moves.

[flatlandsman]

This is a discussion area, not a lets post stats all day. This is a valid discussion and I see no issue with there being a few posts about it, it decided a race for two teams.

I think the issue maybe is that Estre is hardly a shrinking violet and has done numerous things over the years to suggest he might have done the same thing where the boot on the other foot, therefore I would submit a few don't really like him, fair enough.

I would say the only point Davidson made that was valid was the vision issue of seeing a car behind but not necessarily being aware he has a wheel at your inside left rear wing area, that is tricky. But Estre's exit was superb he had the right to go where he did and was shoved twice off the track, the stewards saw little in what he did wrong, and this could, if that second shove on the kerb had been bigger, been a Bamber type accident.

There were a lot of moves that were sketchy, the Peugeot team were notable for late moving under braking into T1 as was Milesi a couple of times, it is not on, if you are already in the braking area and someone moves suddenly in front of you that is not a great idea.

Yet they got away with it, so expect it to continue.

However if a mechanic touches a car by reflex accident, that is easily worth a 30 second drive thru, not lifting throttle past a yellow when everyone else lifts for a tenth of a second (and probably scrubs off 5 mph) and get away with it, is worth a drive through, for a car pulled over on the exit of a hairpin 20 yards off line.

yes some of this is driver error, but what would you rather call dangerous, lifting for a tenth past a yellow, or moving under braking from a 190mph straight into a first gear hairpin.

Consistency with stewarding is the issue, nothing else.