General Sportscar Chat thread

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

I always liked Shaw, but I wasn't impressed by what he did in the recent ALMS broadcasts. Maybe he just didn't get along with Creamer very well, but whatever the reason, most of the time I wished they'd get someone else.

Shaw's strength is that he provides an independent and direct commentary regardless of whom he is sitting beside. Unlike, say, Cole who gets completely dragged off course if his co-commentator is too giddy. Haven is a good commentator but he can get very giddy. Kirby is a complete calamity in that respect.

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Funnily enough, my impression of Hindhaugh is that that's exactly what he doesn't do. I thought about this while watching the Shanghai WEC race, and was very happy that compared to many other pundits (especially on American TV), he doesn't constantly tell you how exciting the battle for seventh in the slowest class is and how awesome the series is because of it. Yes, he sometimes gets excited, but that's because he genuinely is excited about something, and that doesn't bother me.

That Shanghai race was completely under the safety car and no commentator is going to lavish praise on a race completely under a safety car. There's no question of the man's sincerity, but it's often people who are too enthusiastic about their subject matter who grate and Hindhaugh is far too aggressive in the praise he heaps upon the action when there is action in comparison to say Addison's who is very proportionate. American commentary is geared towards selling, selling, selling, it's 'infomercial' style, it won't change and yes, American commentary is miles more condescending than anything you'll get, well, from Britain, anyway.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

I always liked Shaw, but I wasn't impressed by what he did in the recent ALMS broadcasts. Maybe he just didn't get along with Creamer very well, but whatever the reason, most of the time I wished they'd get someone else.

Funnily enough, my impression of Hindhaugh is that that's exactly what he doesn't do. I thought about this while watching the Shanghai WEC race, and was very happy that compared to many other pundits (especially on American TV), he doesn't constantly tell you how exciting the battle for seventh in the slowest class is and how awesome the series is because of it. Yes, he sometimes gets excited, but that's because he genuinely is excited about something, and that doesn't bother me.

He would do that all the time in the alms broadcasts when he was lead commentator on espn3

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

That Shanghai race was completely under the safety car and no commentator is going to lavish praise on a race completely under a safety car.

You're confusing Shanghai and Fuji.

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

He would do that all the time in the alms broadcasts when he was lead commentator on espn3

Fair enough, I can only comment on what I've seen, and being outside the US I had to make do with Shaw and Creamer. Maybe it is actually an American TV thing, instead of a personal style, because I still don't see how that criticism can be applied to the RLM stuff he does.

[Adam43]

I don't see much of a difference between some of these commentators. Some continuously tell you that the race is amazing for a minor point. Others take the tact of putting down everything else to prove how amazing we are for watching the current race. Perhaps as suggested above there is a difference US and UK, but it is the same thing. One is a glass half full, they other a glass half empty approach to the same thing.

Can someone just report on the race and add to the understanding of the race? I shall decide if I am enjoying it. This rant covers all commentary, all formats, all mediums, all series and channels.

Actually I do want to know if they have passion for it, but I don't want it to be the dominant part of the commentary. That's why Trussers is so good, he talks about the race, tells you things about the race, his theories about the race. He clearly has oodles of passion. You don't need constant telling that it is the best thing ever (or everything else is worthless).

For me we are in a real low point of commentary in the world generally. They try to do too much of the thinking and opinion forming for the listener. At best it just grates, at worse it is patronising.

[chernaudi]

This.

I'd like to think that sportscar fans are serious car guys and are interested and invested to some degree in the race, be it the cars, the technology, the spectacle, whatever draws one's interest.

I'd hope that the commentators can inject some interesting tidbits about what's happening on the track and behind the scenes of the sport, without trying to shove one sect of the sport down my throat or p*****g and moaning about how another sect sucks or putting down all other forms of racing. That should be up to individual tastes.

Not saying that these guys shouldn't have opinions nor that they shouldn't share them, but, as some of the mods and admins have told me at times here in the past, make your point and move on! Or get a blog or a place to post an editorial on your views. Just don't pollute what is supposed to be a major race broadcast with them unless they're something relevant to the series itself. And even then, be mindful that there's a competition going on, not matter how thrilling or boring it may seem up front or elsewhere. I believe that Shanghai showed that you can't always keep an eye off of a sport where there's not guarantees until the checkered flag flies--or until the official results get posted.

Be that as it may, if one wants to see some at times truly god awfully cringe-worthy race coverage, watch a NASCAR race from an US broadcast feed, especially Fox/Fox Sports or ESPN. Focus on who's running up from 80-90% of the time, lot's of commercials, and the freakin' cringe-worthy antics of some of the commentators, especially on Fox. Maybe then you sportscar guys will see how good you have it even at the worst of times LOL! In all seriousness, though, NASCAR commentary in the US is pretty bad at times.

[dxk1]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

Agh no not Taro!! Taro for gosh sake turn your mic on...taro turn your mic on!!

I thought it was a good thing when Taro kept his mike off!

DK

[Mal]

So with the budget cap in F1 is there now a real possibility of the richer teams running parallel P1 programmes to help split some development costs between two programmes and therefore helping the them keep to the F1 budget cap?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Mal

So with the budget cap in F1 is there now a real possibility of the richer teams running parallel P1 programmes to help split some development costs between two programmes and therefore helping the them keep to the F1 budget cap?

This certainly bubbled up last time there were muttering of resource restrictions in F1, and with the level of potential commonality in regs you can see it being a lot easier than it's been in recent years.

Add to this the desirability of locking in the next generation in a meaningful way (what price a Kevin Magnussen in a McLaren-Honda LMP1 in a counterfactual 2014?) and there's another strong reason for doing it.

I suspect this is me being a bit of a Dr Pangloss. Realistically it means potential LMP programmes for the three or four manufacturer teams (where Renault sits is maybe a little more open to question). If they can make a financial case, which is always an issue for sportscar racing in general, then maybe it's a runner - so for Ferrari they may see a sales argument around "the return" in the same way that Porsche has done, but for, say, Mercedes I'm less sure; and as to the prospects of us seeing another Sauber at Le Mans? Sadly I'm not holding my breath.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by isynge

This certainly bubbled up last time there were muttering of resource restrictions in F1, and with the level of potential commonality in regs you can see it being a lot easier than it's been in recent years.

Add to this the desirability of locking in the next generation in a meaningful way (what price a Kevin Magnussen in a McLaren-Honda LMP1 in a counterfactual 2014?) and there's another strong reason for doing it.

I suspect this is me being a bit of a Dr Pangloss. Realistically it means potential LMP programmes for the three or four manufacturer teams (where Renault sits is maybe a little more open to question). If they can make a financial case, which is always an issue for sportscar racing in general, then maybe it's a runner - so for Ferrari they may see a sales argument around "the return" in the same way that Porsche has done, but for, say, Mercedes I'm less sure; and as to the prospects of us seeing another Sauber at Le Mans? Sadly I'm not holding my breath.

Renault is linked to Nissan of course so it is already planned. Honda already has a car planned, as does Caterham although it is currently P2, Red Bull already have a link to Nissan via Infinity, Lotus has a tenuous link to Kolles's team.

So really Ferrari, Mercedes, Sauber, Williams and Marrusia are the only ones with no connection to current Prototype teams.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Mal

Renault is linked to Nissan of course so it is already planned. Honda already has a car planned, as does Caterham although it is currently P2, Red Bull already have a link to Nissan via Infinity, Lotus has a tenuous link to Kolles's team.

So really Ferrari, Mercedes, Sauber, Williams and Marrusia are the only ones with no connection to current Prototype teams.

I guess it depends on how you construct your motorsport family tree and what we mean by an F1 team running an LMP programme to get round a budget cap.

Are we looking at something designed to keep plant going through a fallow period imposed by budget caps, so something maybe a little like a Ferrari 333SP?

Or is it a shadow programme something aimed at developing technology for F1 outside of the restrictive regulatory environment and getting drivers some mileage, so something akin to Alpine-Renault in the 1970s?

Or a level of diversification, amortising investments in F1 somewhere else, such as the Williams flywheel hybrid showing up in an Audi?

Or finally a bit of branding commonality, so seeing a lineage from Red Bull through Infiniti and Renault to Nissan?

I guess I was thinking about the prospects for option 1 or 2, where you could see a degree of cross over of personnel and quite possibly branding, and in that light I'll stick to my mild skepticism.

Time, no doubt, will tell, but in the meantime it's December, and thus what could be better than idly kicking these ideas around?

[Maelochs]

Hate to be negative but I don’t see enough commonality between F1 and P1 for much real F1 development to happen in a P1 car. Then engines would have to be so substantially different, and the ERS systems, Obviously the suspension …. I can’t see how a team could get around the F1 budget cap with a P1 project.

What I could see is a really big team having some extra money and considering the PR benefits of a P1 program if it could be done at a low enough cost—possibly helped out by customer cars?

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Hate to be negative but I don’t see enough commonality between F1 and P1 for much real F1 development to happen in a P1 car. Then engines would have to be so substantially different, and the ERS systems, Obviously the suspension …. I can’t see how a team could get around the F1 budget cap with a P1 project.

I agree.

Also even more negatively: what the budget cap means is that they get the same exposure in F1 with less money. The saved money doesn't have to go anywhere.

WEC's cost then again is on the rise and exposure certainly isn't where it is supposed to be.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

I agree.

Also even more negatively: what the budget cap means is that they get the same exposure in F1 with less money. The saved money doesn't have to go anywhere.

WEC's cost then again is on the rise and exposure certainly isn't where it is supposed to be.

Which could all change next April for all we know.

[Mal]

The manufacturers and the ACO really need to get a grip on the promotion of the series especially with a decent TV package - why not try and get it shown in the UK on Sky F1 - we know there are no clashes and with the added interest via Mark Webber all the F1 website sites are currently following his progress - its a golden opportunity to get decent TV and press exposure

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Which could all change next April for all we know.

Porsche & Webber will help for sure, but gradual, small rise sounds a bit more realistic.

[Speed-King]

Bit of a history question: I seem to remember having read about a series proposed for 1999 that would have combined the remnants of FIA GT1 with prototype entries from Audi, BMW, etc.

Thing is that I can't find any information whatsoever about plans for such a series on the internet, so I am beginning to wonder if I didn't just make that up.

So, does anyone know if plans for such a series really existed and if so why they didn't get off the ground?

[rich07]

Id be very interested about this also so if anyone is in the know please speak up

[deggis]

=> http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...48#post3322648

Originally Posted by Mal

It will be good if it finally happens:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...irector-650523

Tom Cruise is to be part of a film based on the book 'Go Like Hell'

Brad Pitt again attached to this

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...cruises-666348

Again... as he was already when it was still a Michael Mann project.

[Mal]

I see MotorsTV will be on Freeview channel 240 in the Uk this year - good news for many I presume!

[Gingers4Justice]

That could well save the channel.

[Mal]

Reading more it is Freeview HD - although it is not HD - if that makes sense?

[Adam43]

Not even SD

[Simmi]

It will open up the channel to more people which is good. Albeit a lot of the people complaining before running basic set-ups still won't be able to get it as you need a TV with internet connection.

Apparently Motors have also confirmed during this announcement that HD still isn't viable. So we're still stuck with race feeds that looked like they've been taken off a 90's VHS, taped onto a camera phone.

But god bless them - I'd certainly be a less happy motorsport fan if they weren't around.

[Nick Woodbury]

A new sim racing game that has been in development for quite some time called Project Cars (pCARS) has released some new in-game stills of their own LMP1 style prototype (a build of their own, done so by the developers) and my god, it looks absolutely STUNNING!

Now, I post this information in this particular thread because I wonder if this in-game Prototype would actually be a feasible design and if we could possibly witness the creation of something similar to this in the near future?







As a side note on the photos, I do indeed see traces of 1st generation Audi R18, perhaps in the livery? The front also resembles a moderately scrunched and tweaked R18 front facia.

[Maelochs]

My first thought was Bentley ... so yeah, Audi ....