[Team] Alpine: The cars are Racing Points

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Speaking of Ferrari, while "Scuderia Ferrari" is called out, I can imagine if there is any team in F1 that is deeply integrated with their owner, it would be Ferrari. So for example if Ferrari was to "sell" their F1 team, how would that work? I expect it would be nearly impossible due to them likely being deeply embedded in other parts of Ferrari.

Richard

It would be difficult given racing car parts and road cars are cast side-by-side!

Ferrari have an excellent level of integration between the race team and road car manufacturing, which really adds to the mystique!

Do Enstone employees really feel like part of Renault or Alpine, by comparison?

The Alpine/RenaultSport Dieppe factory is relatively small in mass production terms -- 5,000-10,000 units p/a IIRC, simialr to Ferrrari production volumes. If possible, maybe the Alpine Grand Prix team should be located there to have closer integration with Alpine road cars like Ferrari (I'm guessing Dieppe is where Alpine sports prototype racers were made in the 1970's)?

The Alpine plant in Dieppe is a site dedicated to the production of small series, sports and competition vehicles. Flexible and with little automation, the workshops at the Dieppe plant can accommodate all types of vehicles, as its history shows. The Dieppe plant is the birthplace of Alpine.

FOUNDED IN: 1969
ACTIVITY: Installation/assembly series vehicles, assembly and sale of competition vehicles, sale of spare parts for racing cars.

https://www.renaultgroup.com/en/our-...ieppe-plant-2/

The story of Alpine (later RenaultSport and now Alpine again) in Dieppe is not so different from Ferrari at Maranello... Maybe Group Renault should leverage that?

There should be so much passion for the French national team Alpine racing proudly in French racing blue, but where is it?!

[To be fair, Aston Martin haven't done much better in getting fans in the stands out there waving Union Flags, but at least the cars are painted and presented nicely and the green team uniforms look sharp.]

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

There should be so much passion for the French national team Alpine racing proudly in French racing blue, but where is it?!

Lack of French GP doesn't help. What is the state of motorsports fandom in France these days?

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

[To be fair, Aston Martin haven't done much better in getting fans in the stands out there waving Union Flags, but at least the cars are painted and presented nicely and the green team uniforms look sharp.]

Do most automobile marque branded racing teams have a bit of an uphill climb to generate "new" fans? I personally have a deep personal ownership history of both Honda and Porsche, and as a motorsports fan tend to support Honda and Porsche centric teams. But do I care much about Mercedes, Alpine or Aston Martin? I don't personally aspire to own any of those. Ferrari ends up being the exception as many (not all) may aspire to own a Ferrari even if they never will. I am not particularly nationalistic (US citizen) so I don't feel an affinity to switch allegiance to a GM or Ford F1 entry. I can see it being much easier for teams like McLaren or Williams to gather new fans as you are not breaking easting marque affinities.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

There should be so much passion for the French national team Alpine racing proudly in French racing blue, but where is it?!

[To be fair, Aston Martin haven't done much better in getting fans in the stands out there waving Union Flags, but at least the cars are painted and presented nicely and the green team uniforms look sharp.]

Not having a French Grand Prix doesn't help. French fans can't waive their tricolours at their home race. On the other hand go to Silverstone and it's awash with Union Flags.


You don't really need Aston Martin to get fans waving Union Flags, Lewis Hamilton and George Russell and now Lando Norris can do that. If Alpine had more success on the track, or indeed if French drivers had more success, things would be different.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Richard C

Isn't that a bit of a distinction without a difference? Everyone is a power unit customer. Ferrari is a customer of Ferrari, Mercedes is a customer of Mercedes. Note, all teams including Ferrari, Mercedes, Alpine and Red Bull must account for "Power unit costs" and ALL teams pay the same amount for their power units in their team operating budgets per the regulations. For some suppliers the arms length structure is more clear such as "Red Bull Powertrains" or "Mercedes AMG HPP". Of course they may have some level of shared ownership (i.e. Mercedes owns part of both Mercedes F1 and Mercedes AMG HPP). Plus it is highly likely that F1 team exist as separate legal entities from their parent. Same applies for 2026 power unit manufactures. If anything to make it easier to manage cost cap (which apply to both F1 team operation and F1 power unit supply) requirements.

So to the Alpine example. It goes to my earlier question. Ryan Reynolds and associates would have bought into the "Renault/Alpine/Enstone" F1 team, but likely not any ownership share for the power unit side. BUT when they bought in, that team was enjoying direct benefit of being the primary team for an F1 PU supplier. Clearly Renault PU was focusing on the Renault owned F1 team!

If reports are correct, then the Renault/Alpine/Enstone team is transitioning from "full manufacture team" to that of a customer team. They would be getting power units and other components from others and would NOT be getting the same level of design service they have in the past, or other teams like Mercedes, Red Bull (with Honda and in the future with RBPT) and Ferrari. So for those who bought into Renault/Alpine/Enstone, I think they are seeing the team go backwards. However at the end of the day, they still may make money given team value may still be above one billion US. Lastly, if Renault has sold the RR group a 24% share, I assume (not sure how remaining 76% ownership is distributed) that someone just needs to buy a controlling interest. So in some ways might a purchase of the F1 team be cheaper now that Renault has offloaded 24% already? Or... could the RR group increase their ownership share to control the team? Does Renault want to continue with any ownership share in any potential sale?

Speaking of Ferrari, while "Scuderia Ferrari" is called out, I can imagine if there is any team in F1 that is deeply integrated with their owner, it would be Ferrari. So for example if Ferrari was to "sell" their F1 team, how would that work? I expect it would be nearly impossible due to them likely being deeply embedded in other parts of Ferrari.

Richard

No Renault has long been different.

Two sides in different countries under different management.

For many years the Renault team wasn’t even the ‘works’ Renault outfit.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by peebee2

No Renault has long been different.

Two sides in different countries under different management.

For many years the Renault team wasn’t even the ‘works’ Renault outfit.

Not disagreeing with anything you are saying. But I will say it all of that is not at odds with my comments regarding degradation of the RR group investment. But I am making assumptions as to what their assumptions were when they bought in. I would assume Renault was not highlight the points you are making as they would be poor selling points to any investors.

Richard

[chillibowl]

after the last several races, surely any suggestion that a team is moving to a Merc supply contract would surely increase its value? McLaren's current form showing no signs of being hampered by being a Merc customer is it?

plus, and it pains me to say this, the Flavio effect...what does he touch that doesnt make money?

aside from all sports teams going up in value (a sign of the times), i would think Alpine is definitely more valuable today then it was when the RR group initially bought in?

anyways, with the success of his latest movie, RR is much richer today than he was last weekend so he's doing fine!

[GTRMagic]

Who will be in line for the second seat?

Is it possible Mr Doohan will join Mr Piastri and Mr Ricciardo on the grid in 2025… meaning Aussies have 15% of the grid

The Benz deal for Alpine is interesting, if they take the engine, gearbox & suspension from Mercedes.. it doesn’t leave a lot to get heavy or poorly designed…

[GTRMagic]

New Alpine Team Principal

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Who will be in line for the second seat?

Is it possible Mr Doohan will join Mr Piastri and Mr Ricciardo on the grid in 2025… meaning Aussies have 15% of the grid

The Benz deal for Alpine is interesting, if they take the engine, gearbox & suspension from Mercedes.. it doesn’t leave a lot to get heavy or poorly designed…

Mr Zhou to Alpine To Pay For The Benz Kit

Is school holidays over yet..?

[GTRMagic]

2 Aussies on the grid confirmed!!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

2 Aussies on the grid confirmed!!

2 Aussie graduates from the Australian Kart Championship too - that's a pretty strong strike rate!

Pleased for Jack - very easy to underrate him but the team have seen plenty of data out of his testing and clearly believe in him.

Good stuff.

[Sandgroper]

YEOW !!!!!!!

ANOTHER "AUSSIE" AUSSIE" AUSSIE" On the grid. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO JACK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gerard C]

Viry employees on stike but going to Monza. https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/...za,193567.html

[Tourer]

Change to Mercedes power units confirmed - but not until the end of 2025.

No question that it IS a great shame after a long history of F1 work out of Viry but also no question that Viry has not got to grips with the hybrid power units as successfully as all the other manufacturers.

For all the dragged out process, it does seem that the decision was made much earlier in the year but there was a procedure to follow.

Might well be quite a strange 2025 season for them.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Change to Mercedes power units confirmed - but not until the end of 2025.

No question that it IS a great shame after a long history of F1 work out of Viry but also no question that Viry has not got to grips with the hybrid power units as successfully as all the other manufacturers.

For all the dragged out process, it does seem that the decision was made much earlier in the year but there was a procedure to follow.

Might well be quite a strange 2025 season for them.

Good grief good luck with reliability..

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Change to Mercedes power units confirmed - but not until the end of 2025.
.

From that article it suggests that whilst it confirms the 'Viry' F1 engine manufacture will cease, Mercedes stepping in is still a work in progress yet to be officially confirmed.

"Discussions with Mercedes are ongoing, and nothing has been formally announced yet regarding a future partnership."

[P38 in workshop]

I wonder if thy will be leaving the A over the door and changing the following letters,beginning perhaps with n then d .

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by E.B

From that article it suggests that whilst it confirms the 'Viry' F1 engine manufacture will cease, Mercedes stepping in is still a work in progress yet to be officially confirmed.

"Discussions with Mercedes are ongoing, and nothing has been formally announced yet regarding a future partnership."

That's what I get for going with the headline too much - but I also think that article has grown since I first saw it. Either way, good point although I suspect that the only thing currently missing is a formal announcement.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Tourer

That's what I get for going with the headline too much - but I also think that article has grown since I first saw it. Either way, good point although I suspect that the only thing currently missing is a formal announcement.

Totally agree its pretty much a fait accompli re the Merc engine deal, and I certainly didnt mean my comment as a dig if it came across that way.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by E.B

Totally agree its pretty much a fait accompli re the Merc engine deal, and I certainly didnt mean my comment as a dig if it came across that way.

All good - zero offence taken

[Gerard C]

I you like to keep your translator busy: https://fr.motorsport.com/f1/news/co...llon/10659354/
http://www.racingbusiness.fr/2024/09...-de-la-f1.html

[P38 in workshop]

Hypertech sounds a bit like Supertech-but more so.I have to wonder about Renault as a whole,given that Nissan are changing the balance of power in their relationship https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/bus...t/75397186007/ .

[flatlandsman]

Do you think now they are done we can go back to calling Alpine, Al Pine, or do we have to keep calling the sportscars Alpeen? Idiotic rubbish

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Do you think now they are done we can go back to calling Alpine, Al Pine, or do we have to keep calling the sportscars Alpeen? Idiotic rubbish

Both sound like cleaning products.

[Gerard C]

Could be Dinalpin but rather Bulgaralpine with a Dacia logo on front fenders… Interlagos would no more be convenient.