BNT NZSuperTourer 2015

[promax]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's not an issue at the moment. I was speaking to looking beyond just one race and what is to come.

i don't think a new series.. with a brand new car is the answer. there's nothing wrong with the current cars. they still have plenty of miles in them. so why change just for the sake of changing? updating the look of the cars isn't an issue. kiwis like V8s.. so that isn't an issue. the issues were separate series and car numbers.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by promax

i don't think a new series.. with a brand new car is the answer. there's nothing wrong with the current cars. they still have plenty of miles in them. so why change just for the sake of changing? updating the look of the cars isn't an issue. kiwis like V8s.. so that isn't an issue. the issues were separate series and car numbers.

Couldn't agree more!

With the current state of play who on earth would put their hand up & spend say $200,000+ on a new "XRMTS8V" (or whatever it may be) for a new Series???

Like it or loath it, the ONLY option for controlled formula V8 racing in NZ are the current chassis, preferably as a single class.

Anyway it will be a few years before the Falcon & Commodore actually become 'old', and its not like Ford or Holden are tipping cash into the series so manufacturer support isn't the be all & end all. Plus the bodyshell's can always be changed further down the line as has already happened with both the Hyundai V8ST and the MRX 'mule'...

[bluespur]

also agree - there are two current chassis - MRX (TLX) and ST - surely there is sufficient combined goodwill to develop technical specifications to incorporate both of them into a single formula

[socram]

There is nothing wrong with running two or three or four classes at the same time. (The successful Aussie GT series manages that.)

Every small grid effectively keeps a larger grid off the programme. Less than 15 or 20 cars on a grid and you wonder why spectators aren't interested? What is the point of having good tracks devoid of cars?

[NZSTfan]

Interesting development. I have been out of touch for the last few weeks, wondering what on earth is going to happen come Puke.

I agree with most on here that sees this as a positive step in the right direction. Good on the TLX owners taking up the invitation.

So with this in mind, does anybody know how many ST/TLX cars will be running at the Puke round?

I think it will be well worth watching the 2 very different concepts (that may look the same from the outside for many) race on the same grid, and presumably under the same rules? I imagine tyres will be 'kook's for the ST's and Dunny's for the TLX?

If ST can muster 10-15 cars and TLX can bring their 5 cars in, then we almost have a 'grid' of some sort.

It will be interesting to see how close the cars are in terms of performance. I will pay to go along and watch that. Hopefully other punters who have stayed away since this all started unravelling will come back to the track.

Good stuff...

Where does MSNZ sit in all this?

Stu

[NZSTfan]

I've done some more digging about this, and things SEEM to be on the mend.

From what I can tell, a meeting was held last night and a certain someone has offered to buy ST as a category. Ray wants out, a certain someone is keen to pick up the pieces, merge, and move forward. This certain someone is, how do you say, quite a big deal round here (referring to an Anchorman quote!). As I understand it they are in negotiations as we speak, and some sort of result may be known by Monday. I hope it works out, as this could be a major step in moving forward.


I hear there has been some sort of agreement around working together, and the Puke round will be billed as a kinda "we got our s*** sorted now, so everyone come back to the race track'. And because both categories are not doing well, then i'd imagine that in the off season, some sort of parity measures will be worked out. So come the 2015/2016 season, we will actually see a 'new' series, whatever it will be called, and this will be made up of ST's and TLX's that have been parity adjusted. I don't know anything about the parity side of things, i.e. are ST's going to de-tune, or are TLX's going to turn the wick up. One would imagine that they would meet halfway. Either way, for this to work, it can't be dialled down too much I reckon. We have had a taste now of cars that are damn near on SC, performance wise. It would be a shame to move away from that. But i'm sure there are people who have a plan in mind....I hope.

I also wonder, that if this does pan out, will we have an enduro part of the season? Be great if they can keep that, as lets face it, the enduros were/are the only real thing that people seem to attend and like.

A new era dawns......possibly

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by CDM

Couldn't agree more!

With the current state of play who on earth would put their hand up & spend say $200,000+ on a new "XRMTS8V" (or whatever it may be) for a new Series???

Like it or loath it, the ONLY option for controlled formula V8 racing in NZ are the current chassis, preferably as a single class.

Anyway it will be a few years before the Falcon & Commodore actually become 'old', and its not like Ford or Holden are tipping cash into the series so manufacturer support isn't the be all & end all. Plus the bodyshell's can always be changed further down the line as has already happened with both the Hyundai V8ST and the MRX 'mule'...

Yeah folks, no need to spazz out. I'm not talking about tomorrow, I'm talking about starting to think about a strategic plan for the future both for the series and what it could morph into at some point.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

From what I can tell, a meeting was held last night and a certain someone has offered to buy ST as a category. Ray wants out, a certain someone is keen to pick up the pieces, merge, and move forward. This certain someone is, how do you say, quite a big deal round here (referring to an Anchorman quote!). As I understand it they are in negotiations as we speak, and some sort of result may be known by Monday. I hope it works out, as this could be a major step in moving forward.

We will see what happens and hopefully it all works out.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Yeah folks, no need to spazz out. I'm not talking about tomorrow, I'm talking about starting to think about a strategic plan for the future both for the series and what it could morph into at some point.

Maybe make a thread about that then? "A 2020 vision for NZ touring cars" or something...

[E36ST]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe make a thread about that then? "A 2020 vision for NZ touring cars" or something...

Hopefully a modern version of this:

[Woolley]

I'd go back half a generation before that when Touring Cars were based on actual touring cars.

[promax]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

This certain someone is, how do you say, quite a big deal round here

Woolley is buying ST????

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

I've done some more digging about this, and things SEEM to be on the mend.

From what I can tell, a meeting was held last night and a certain someone has offered to buy ST as a category. Ray wants out, a certain someone is keen to pick up the pieces, merge, and move forward. This certain someone is, how do you say, quite a big deal round here (referring to an Anchorman quote!). As I understand it they are in negotiations as we speak, and some sort of result may be known by Monday. I hope it works out, as this could be a major step in moving forward.


I hear there has been some sort of agreement around working together, and the Puke round will be billed as a kinda "we got our s*** sorted now, so everyone come back to the race track'. And because both categories are not doing well, then i'd imagine that in the off season, some sort of parity measures will be worked out. So come the 2015/2016 season, we will actually see a 'new' series, whatever it will be called, and this will be made up of ST's and TLX's that have been parity adjusted. I don't know anything about the parity side of things, i.e. are ST's going to de-tune, or are TLX's going to turn the wick up. One would imagine that they would meet halfway. Either way, for this to work, it can't be dialled down too much I reckon. We have had a taste now of cars that are damn near on SC, performance wise. It would be a shame to move away from that. But i'm sure there are people who have a plan in mind....I hope.

I also wonder, that if this does pan out, will we have an enduro part of the season? Be great if they can keep that, as lets face it, the enduros were/are the only real thing that people seem to attend and like.

A new era dawns......possibly

Hi Stu,
Firstly there will be no parity adjustments between ST and TLX for the coming together meeting, however, it has been agreed between the parties that an independent panel will be convened as quickly as possible to look at a cost effective formula to bring about parity, if indeed that is considered to be possible at an acceptable cost, given the significant differences in engine capacity etc.

Unless that "certain someone" has exceptionally deep pockets then there is little point in some one else owning the category with out being able to pay appearance monies, travel monies, and slash profit margin's on consumables etc, in order to guarantee a minimum of 15 cars can afford to turn up for every race.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by promax

Woolley is buying ST????

[The Realist]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Stu,
Firstly there will be no parity adjustments between ST and TLX for the coming together meeting, however, it has been agreed between the parties that an independent panel will be convened as quickly as possible to look at a cost effective formula to bring about parity, if indeed that is considered to be possible at an acceptable cost, given the significant differences in engine capacity etc.

Unless that "certain someone" has exceptionally deep pockets then there is little point in some one else owning the category with out being able to pay appearance monies, travel monies, and slash profit margin's on consumables etc, in order to guarantee a minimum of 15 cars can afford to turn up for every race.

That could be me and my team. However, we will wait until after the April meeting and then reconsider. This would need to be in the context of all three classes including TLX and TL to make it viable.

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Stu,
Firstly there will be no parity adjustments between ST and TLX for the coming together meeting, however, it has been agreed between the parties that an independent panel will be convened as quickly as possible to look at a cost effective formula to bring about parity, if indeed that is considered to be possible at an acceptable cost, given the significant differences in engine capacity etc.

Thanks Mark, well aware of all of that

I do wonder if any parity could ever be achieved between the 2 VERY different concepts?

[Goat Boy]

How about parity between the drivers...???

[GHOGH]

The nzv8 tuners thought they could get 2% power parity between the tlx and STs.
http://news.motorsport.org.nz/achiev...-tlx-v8-field/

Driver parity? - add lots of ballast to the younger lighter drivers' cars.

[bluespur]

just read the document and it would appear to me having watched TLX that the engine parity is pretty good between four makes of cars - so why could this not be used between TLX and ST

there will be gearbox ratio, suspension, brakes and tyres still different but I am sure that some of that can also be worked out as long as there is a will on both parties

I would hope that they can keep it as simple as possible also hope the 'new' group concentrate on category management and do not wish to become promoters - that sure did not work for previous ST management and NZV8s have kept away from that.

can understand Marks comments about appearance money, subsidised parts etc but most of our racing groups do not have that - so perhaps such a business model is not sustainable to the level he expects - maybe that is part of the problem.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by promax

Woolley is buying ST????

Imagine, a Pom running it. The forum would melt

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by bluespur

just read the document and it would appear to me having watched TLX that the engine parity is pretty good between four makes of cars - so why could this not be used between TLX and ST

there will be gearbox ratio, suspension, brakes and tyres still different but I am sure that some of that can also be worked out as long as there is a will on both parties

I would hope that they can keep it as simple as possible also hope the 'new' group concentrate on category management and do not wish to become promoters - that sure did not work for previous ST management and NZV8s have kept away from that.

can understand Marks comments about appearance money, subsidised parts etc but most of our racing groups do not have that - so perhaps such a business model is not sustainable to the level he expects - maybe that is part of the problem.

Bluespur, Firstly, I never said anything about subsidized parts, I said quote "slash profit margins on parts" Secondly, when NZV8's was at its strongest we turned over $900,000 pa in parts sales, and made enough profit to pay David Slater, as a full time Series and control parts co-ordinator, and after making provisions for winter cash flow, we then dispersed the balance of the monies as appearance monies.

The promotor TMC also paid out just under under $100,000 per season in travel money.

TMC in its "heyday's" turned over just under $4million dollars, and paid some $390,000 pa in fee's and levies to it its 60% owner MSNZ plus rent etc.

I agree with you that to make a similar model work today all three parties would need to work together in the interest of the V8 Touring car community, which is why I said unless a new owner of V8 SuperTourers 2013 Limited, has very significant financial resources and is prepared to spend them, there is little point in anybody actually buying the business, least in my my opinion.

[bluespur]

Mark

Subsided or slash profit margins...basically the same thing. Competitor pays less.

Turnover on control parts sure looked as if it turned a dollar. Pity the numbers reduced and consequently money available reduced.

I am very keen to see a premier touring car category and do get annoyed to read of the bitter feeling between the two groups. I remain ever hopeful

[NZSTfan]

Anyone heard anymore on the April event?

I have heard that there is still negotiations going on with regards to the purchase of ST. This may affect (apparently) the April event.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Anyone heard anymore on the April event?

I have heard that there is still negotiations going on with regards to the purchase of ST. This may affect (apparently) the April event.

Hi Stu, you will be pleased to know that as of today the meeting is going ahead.

The meeting is being run and promoted by KRD [and know they are not Russian's!] and invitation's have been received by all invited class's, including all three V8 Touring car class's, Muscle cars, V8 Utes, and Supertrucks.

We Ssangyong Actyon Sport Racing have already confirmed our acceptance of the KRD invitation and will have all 30 SRS utes on the grid for that weekend.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Stu, you will be pleased to know that as of today the meeting is going ahead.

The meeting is being run and promoted by KRD [and know they are not Russian's!] and invitation's have been received by all invited class's, including all three V8 Touring car class's, Muscle cars, V8 Utes, and Supertrucks.

We Ssangyong Actyon Sport Racing have already confirmed our acceptance of the KRD invitation and will have all 30 SRS utes on the grid for that weekend.

Who is KRD?