[iV8SC15R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000: 8-11 Oct (WITH POLL)

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

They need to get the black flag nonsense under control. How is a brake light stuck on so dangerous that it warrants the car pitting immediately? How is it that a minor bit of rear bumper that detaches itself half way down conrod as it inevitably would is in any way dangerous?

How is it that blazing around at full noise passing safety and medical cars not to mention the scene of an accident where the marshals need to get to the driver only needs a drive through penalty?

DSO/Clerk of Course etc need to get their stuff sorted and worry less about the nonsense penalties and more about drivers ignoring team orders and putting others at risk.

First of all, it was the brake lights NOT working. You know, those things that give the person behind an idea that you're slowing down.
A piece of fibreglass can still do damage (while it wouldn't kill you unless it hit you in the temple, it could poke out your eye etc)


On the other point, i've always been a big believer that V8s have the yellow flag procedures so wrong its only a matter of time before someone is killed. The sooner they implement a code60 type deal the better (thus no-one gains an advantage from a safety car)
Of course, they wont do this, because its much better to bunch the field to make the boring racing more interesting and create crashes. Might aswell bring back reverse grids

[Peregrine]

Still waiting on confirmation of Lowndes' fine for conducting a burnout before the first corner........

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

First of all, it was the brake lights NOT working. You know, those things that give the person behind an idea that you're slowing down.
A piece of fibreglass can still do damage (while it wouldn't kill you unless it hit you in the temple, it could poke out your eye etc)


On the other point, i've always been a big believer that V8s have the yellow flag procedures so wrong its only a matter of time before someone is killed. The sooner they implement a code60 type deal the better (thus no-one gains an advantage from a safety car)
Of course, they wont do this, because its much better to bunch the field to make the boring racing more interesting and create crashes. Might aswell bring back reverse grids

In an odd coincidence there was an F1 race on last night. They managed quite well without brake lights. There again maybe it was a lack of them that saw Kimi shunt Bottas. They don't tell anyone anything they don't already know.

The fibreglass barely made it off the circuit - it is not dangerous to anyone.

Still $25k for joke in poor taste - how much for deliberately holding up the field after you have been given a penalty? $0 I would expect. Not like the Renault Singapore experience has any relevance to the stunt pulled yesterday.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Still waiting on confirmation of Lowndes' fine for conducting a burnout before the first corner........

Was that a requirement? Sandowns finish line is further down the straight, closer to the grandstand where the burnout happened (and higher speeds i think) so it would be perfectly reasonable to assume no such rule was in place for Bathurst.

If there was a rule, they sure as **** better apply the same fine!

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

In an odd coincidence there was an F1 race on last night. They managed quite well without brake lights. There again maybe it was a lack of them that saw Kimi shunt Bottas. They don't tell anyone anything they don't already know.

The fibreglass barely made it off the circuit - it is not dangerous to anyone.

Still $25k for joke in poor taste - how much for deliberately holding up the field after you have been given a penalty? $0 I would expect. Not like the Renault Singapore experience has any relevance to the stunt pulled yesterday.

Take off the blue coloured glasses for a second.

Its a requirement of the car to have functioning brake lights. They weren't working. So its a problem that needs to be rectified. Dont like brake lights? stay out of this section and stick to F1.

It doesn't matter where the fibreglass ended up, its where it potentially could have gone. You're wlecome to your opinion that it wasn't an issue, but you'd be wrong

25k is a joke, personally i thought it was hilarious, and i will forever refer to that car as the pussy wagon, as it is in no way derogatory. I'm sure both the drivers also saw the funny side.

No-one was anywhere near whincup to make a pass at the end, so as such no penalty would be required. I understand you ford supporters hate winning things on merit (specifically Ambrose telling people to get out his way when he was fighting for a championship ) but there was no issue. Had he actually blocked anyone, i'd be all for a penalty. On that point, on the footage i saw of Reynolds, Tim Edwards was whinging for nothing about the blue flags as DR was way behind the nissan, and as soon as he got close, the Nissan let him past. (unless of course they held him up earlier, but at the start of conrod there was a huge gap)

[Armco Bender]

How is it that blazing around at full noise passing safety and medical cars not to mention the scene of an accident where the marshals need to get to the driver only needs a drive through penalty?

Listening to race control radio at the time,the marshalls at the scene left race control in no doubt that cars were speeding past.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Take off the blue coloured glasses for a second.

Its a requirement of the car to have functioning brake lights. They weren't working. So its a problem that needs to be rectified. Dont like brake lights? stay out of this section and stick to F1.

It doesn't matter where the fibreglass ended up, its where it potentially could have gone. You're wlecome to your opinion that it wasn't an issue, but you'd be wrong

25k is a joke, personally i thought it was hilarious, and i will forever refer to that car as the pussy wagon, as it is in no way derogatory. I'm sure both the drivers also saw the funny side.

No-one was anywhere near whincup to make a pass at the end, so as such no penalty would be required. I understand you ford supporters hate winning things on merit (specifically Ambrose telling people to get out his way when he was fighting for a championship ) but there was no issue. Had he actually blocked anyone, i'd be all for a penalty. On that point, on the footage i saw of Reynolds, Tim Edwards was whinging for nothing about the blue flags as DR was way behind the nissan, and as soon as he got close, the Nissan let him past. (unless of course they held him up earlier, but at the start of conrod there was a huge gap)

I seem to remember Skaife winning Sandown with no lights in the rain no less. Apparently that was ok they even laughed about it on the tellie last week.

Never seen detached fibreglass hurt anyone. They have a big surface area and no mass - they just hit the air and basically stop. The black flag for that was withdrawn anyway. Flags for this have always been nonsense. 888 once lost a race at Adelaide for a loose diffuser. That was a rubbish penalty too.

Point being what Whincup did was dangerous and needs more than a slap on the wrist. In contrast what was handed out to others was massively over the top. He should have followed the safety car in and not held anyone up after the penalty was applied.

[Reload]

Seems like there is some serious butthurt going on from some on here.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

I seem to remember Skaife winning Sandown with no lights in the rain no less. Apparently that was ok they even laughed about it on the tellie last week.

Never seen detached fibreglass hurt anyone. They have a big surface area and no mass - they just hit the air and basically stop. The black flag for that was withdrawn anyway. Flags for this have always been nonsense. 888 once lost a race at Adelaide for a loose diffuser. That was a rubbish penalty too.

Point being what Whincup did was dangerous and needs more than a slap on the wrist. In contrast what was handed out to others was massively over the top. He should have followed the safety car in and not held anyone up after the penalty was applied.

If you think something like that bumper couldn't cause an injury, you're delusional. Is it probable? No. Is it Possible? Absolutely.

On your second point, i'd like to see cars penalized if they cause damage to a car that ends up black flagged. Doubt that'd happen though

If the series is known for laughable rules, why would the drivers take them seriously?

[GTRMagic]

Congratulations too to our successful pollers..

Cinghio44, Go Harder., Greem, greenracer, Razor, STEALTHY each picked the winning car

[Reload]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Congratulations too to our successful pollers..

Cinghio44, Go Harder., Greem, greenracer, Razor, STEALTHY each picked the winning car

And chavez came very close

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

If you think something like that bumper couldn't cause an injury, you're delusional. Is it probable? No. Is it Possible? Absolutely.

On your second point, i'd like to see cars penalized if they cause damage to a car that ends up black flagged. Doubt that'd happen though

If the series is known for laughable rules, why would the drivers take them seriously?

Anything is possible. Just not at all likely. We have marshall posts that survive an assault by 1400 kg of Falcon. (Thankfully, that could have been really bad). One or two kg of fibreglass is not a real issue, only one for people who want to get worked up about it.

100% agree the black flags, driver standards and the leverage of penalties all need sorting and quickly. It is a blight on the sport.

[GTRMagic]

A 2kg piece of fibreglass hitting the carbonite windscreen of a V8SC at 250km/h up one of the straights, would likely be enough to smash it

With no 'Larry' bar aboard now, pilots are arguably even more vulnerable to injury through the screen...

[djr81]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A 2kg piece of fibreglass hitting the carbonite windscreen of a V8SC at 250km/h up one of the straights, would likely be enough to smash it

With no 'Larry' bar aboard now, pilots are arguably even more vulnerable to injury through the screen...

Oh you mean the polycarbonate ones they changed to on the grounds of safety? Those ones?

"Run in a number of categories around the world, including NASCAR, the United States-sourced polycarbonate screens are said to have 250 times the impact protection of glass."

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

Anything is possible. Just not at all likely. We have marshall posts that survive an assault by 1400 kg of Falcon. (Thankfully, that could have been really bad). One or two kg of fibreglass is not a real issue, only one for people who want to get worked up about it.

100% agree the black flags, driver standards and the leverage of penalties all need sorting and quickly. It is a blight on the sport.

You're welcome to your opinion on the matter, but i 100% agree with the safety issue in this regard, it is an issue and it was good they were going to sort it

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Reload

And chavez came very close

My pick came second.

And yours?

[Terry S]

I firmly believe that Lowndes won MAINLY because Whincup held up the opposition after the safety car.

Lowndes was in lead, and Whincup knew he was out of it because he had to serve penalty. So to help the team mate he held up the opposition. Look how they were held up. Whilst Lowndes galloped away.

The winning margin was about what Whincup held the others up by!

surely in that great V8sc Rule book there is something against this. He should behave been immediately Ordered into the pits when it became obvious what he was up to. It's just a very unfair advantage to a team mate. i hope it is never allowed to happen again.

[mikuni]

You can't serve a penalty under the safety car, so no matter what happens, that rule is set to stay and this could potentially happen again.

The others were more than welcome to pass him if he was going so slow, I believe they were actually told not to. That is their problem, not 888's.

I didn't really like it, but as I say, it is part of the game, so I don't have a big issue with it.

[Mixer]

Frosty didn't have the pace of Lowndes all day. Whincup did not hold anybody up. He was in a legal position with no reason to let anybody past or otherwise drive abnormally.

[Henry]

I don't think that Lowndes was under any threat from anybody in those last 20 laps, with or without a surreptitious baulk from Whincup. The final 20 laps of the 1000 are the time and place where Lowndes' legend resides, and with the possible exception of last year's brain fart move on Winterbottom, any time CL's within a sniff of the lead and his engineer says 20 to go, IT'S ON.

As far as the whole silly thing, if they did what NASCAR do and close pit lane until the field is under the control of the Safety Car, it'd cut out the temptation to put in a qualifier while there's wreckage and officials and injured drivers on track...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by djr81

I seem to remember Skaife winning Sandown with no lights in the rain no less. Apparently that was ok they even laughed about it on the tellie last week.

Never seen detached fibreglass hurt anyone. They have a big surface area and no mass - they just hit the air and basically stop. The black flag for that was withdrawn anyway. Flags for this have always been nonsense. 888 once lost a race at Adelaide for a loose diffuser. That was a rubbish penalty too.

Point being what Whincup did was dangerous and needs more than a slap on the wrist. In contrast what was handed out to others was massively over the top. He should have followed the safety car in and not held anyone up after the penalty was applied.

Winning with no lights is a different situation to not having brake lights, plus you're talking about some years ago and there's a new rule book issued each year so you're unfortunately comparing apples with grapes. You're completely correct on your earlier point re open wheelers and brake lights but V8s, like many other bodied categories, have brake lights - the drivers are used to them and the rules require them to be working, end of story.

Those panels I think are kevlar rather than fibreglass and that can slice someone if it goes into the crowd, which COULD happen. You may also recall Max Wilson getting glass in his eyes which became a real problem for him after bodywork had come off a car, flown up, hit a bridge and then dropped back down into his windscreen. People don't often get injured by bodywork but it has happened.

Agree that drivers going hard under SC conditions is a risk that's still hanging there. JW may well have rolled off it going past the crash area but it wouldn't have been much, given where he ended up relative to the others.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Winning with no lights is a different situation to not having brake lights, plus you're talking about some years ago and there's a new rule book issued each year so you're unfortunately comparing apples with grapes. You're completely correct on your earlier point re open wheelers and brake lights but V8s, like many other bodied categories, have brake lights - the drivers are used to them and the rules require them to be working, end of story.

Those panels I think are kevlar rather than fibreglass and that can slice someone if it goes into the crowd, which COULD happen. You may also recall Max Wilson getting glass in his eyes which became a real problem for him after bodywork had come off a car, flown up, hit a bridge and then dropped back down into his windscreen. People don't often get injured by bodywork but it has happened.

Agree that drivers going hard under SC conditions is a risk that's still hanging there. JW may well have rolled off it going past the crash area but it wouldn't have been much, given where he ended up relative to the others.

For what it is worth it was with no HI rain light in atrocious conditions.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by chavez

My pick came second.

And yours?

Nah no good, but I thought that #1, #2, #5, #55, #22, #888, #97, #14, #17 and #8 would be up near the front at some stage.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

For what it is worth it was with no HI rain light in atrocious conditions.

Its not worth anything. The car had a fault that was required by the rules to be rectified. End of story!

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Its not worth anything. The car had a fault that was required by the rules to be rectified. End of story!

You missed the point.

The question is why does a mechanical flag for such a minor thing have to be served immediately when a drive through for a far more dangerous transgression can be served in the next three laps or whenever it suits?

Teams need time to prepare to fix things - even if it is only tape or a reboot of an ecu. With circuits having lap times in the 50 second range it doesn't allow enough time to plan a proper fix of a supposedly dangerous car.