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18 Aug 2016, 06:38 (Ref:3666300) | #3976 | |||
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Quote:
It's plausible that the car is tough to get right, but, I'd be shocked if it's that far off the Park Place 991. |
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“We’re trying to close the doors without embarrassing ourselves, the France family and embarrassing (the) Grand American Series,” he said in the deposition. “There is no money. There is no purse. There’s nothing.” |
18 Aug 2016, 07:34 (Ref:3666308) | #3977 | ||
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The AJR #23 has been quite dominant in QF and at the race starts , then they are failing to materialize that dominance into wins/podiums. The #23 is exploiting to the max the Silver driver regulations, and the Park Place 911 has been better in the last races.
The BOP is to make all the cars competitive without breaking the bank, not to guarantee a trophy to everybody. The driver component cannot be BOPed. |
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18 Aug 2016, 09:21 (Ref:3666320) | #3978 | |||
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Quote:
Best to keep a close eye on this going forward. |
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18 Aug 2016, 13:16 (Ref:3666342) | #3979 | |
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Interesting to note that at the last round - under the same BoP - WT ran 2 cars in GTD (the extra car always intended as a one-off), knowing by their own standard they wouldn't be competitive.
Somehow, there's a marketing component in this decision, just not yet able to filter it. We'll probably see them return in DPi next year, crying for an P-Am class after getting skunked at the Rolex! |
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18 Aug 2016, 14:01 (Ref:3666352) | #3980 | ||
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There's no BOP issue with the Porsche. 5 poles this year out of 8 have been set by a Porsche in GTD, and the first and fourth fastest cars during the race at Road America were set by a 911. AJR's other car, the 23, has no issues with being at the front of the field. The two WeatherTech cars that were entered at Road America(22, and 77) have nothing to blame but their slow Am's(both of the MacNiels) for their lack of pace.
Breakdown by driver over the past 4 rounds: It's gonna be fun watching Cooper get waxed in PWC. |
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18 Aug 2016, 14:37 (Ref:3666356) | #3981 | ||
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As they say the numbers don't lie.
Honestly I can't see how anyone can complain about BOP in GTD right now, considering the range of victors we've had, and with various teams and brands mixing it up at the front. You don't see Stevenson dropping out citing BOP. They've had pace, but they haven't been able to put it together. Magnus has. Of the teams running Porsches, the 23 has been at the top of the charts, still sits 3rd in championship points despite a run of bad luck. You can't blame BOP for your own inability to put it together when it counts. Luck will always factor in as well, and a team with realistic expectations, and understanding the ebb and flow of life in general will keep their head down and work harder to produce results. Agreed about PWC. It's a deeper pool than 4-5 years ago. |
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-Nate |
18 Aug 2016, 14:45 (Ref:3666360) | #3982 | |||
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Quote:
I hope the team runs a GT and GTA entry...and Sprint X |
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North American SportsCar |
18 Aug 2016, 14:46 (Ref:3666361) | #3983 | ||
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Cooper and David can run as a team in Sprint-X and finish dead last in the Am-Am division.
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18 Aug 2016, 15:46 (Ref:3666376) | #3984 | ||
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Park Place's Porsche also has been yanked by the team from the VIR round, citing IMSA's BOP policy.
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/pa...rawn-from-vir/ |
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18 Aug 2016, 16:14 (Ref:3666378) | #3985 | ||
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Second place finishers at the previous round, with the fastest class lap and citing BOP concerns, yahhh okayyyyy. |
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18 Aug 2016, 16:28 (Ref:3666382) | #3986 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 337
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PP and WT are just whiners and are using BOP as a convenient excuse. If they would just work harder, they would win. This has nothing to do with the IMSA management. I've been saying since day one that the IMSA management is doing an excellent job and the reasons why these teams are dropping out is a problem that was around way before the merger.
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18 Aug 2016, 16:42 (Ref:3666389) | #3987 | ||
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It's just like what Marshall Pruett said on his Twitter page. Teams agreed to have BOP be part of the class, then complain when it gets changed up when data seems to support such a change.
He seems to basically be saying either have BOP and go along with it, or get rid of it and have to do everything performance-wise on your own. And I agree with him. Where was all the whinging and politicking for BOP in IMSA and the ACO back about 10-15 years ago? Of course, I do blame the FIA and Maserati over the MC12 incident that lead to BOP being created in the first place. |
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18 Aug 2016, 16:44 (Ref:3666390) | #3988 | |||
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Quote:
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18 Aug 2016, 17:02 (Ref:3666391) | #3989 | ||
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Maybe just BoP the cars electronically from the Control Tower, based upon who the driver is!!!
Everybody gets their own Performance Index.. That would be easy to manage. Maybe just BoP them some more during the race, should they go outside their performance window. Last edited by Fogelhund; 18 Aug 2016 at 17:13. |
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18 Aug 2016, 17:05 (Ref:3666392) | #3990 | |||
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 283
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Quote:
"Team, we had pace for 4th place today, but unfortunately we lucked out and got 2nd instead. Truly, this is a dark day for Park Place Motorsports..." |
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18 Aug 2016, 17:20 (Ref:3666397) | #3991 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 337
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Quote:
This is what racing has become. It's almost like bracket racing. You can only go so fast, go too fast, you are penalized. So you run as close to the index as you can. I know it's already done for some endurance races in Europe and SCCA now does it for their Enduro Series. Just get more used to PWC and IMSA having the same exact classes along with their own take on the BOP. Teams that are upset with one series, will just go to the other. When that doesn't work out they will go back. Teams have no sponsor commitments any more so they will just flip back and forth just to try to get what they want. If not, they quit or move to another class. |
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18 Aug 2016, 17:35 (Ref:3666401) | #3992 | |||
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Quote:
Play your cards right, to get the win you want, such as Ford at LM, which might have been the biggest mockery of BoP in recent memory. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the alternative is. |
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18 Aug 2016, 17:42 (Ref:3666402) | #3993 | ||
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Alternative is go back to the pre-BOP dominated days. Problem with that is that racing in almost every class and discipline is quite a bit more expensive than it was back then, too. Only reason why GT racing isn't insanely more expensive than it was back then (not counting inflation) is that the cars are still technically production based and quite a bit of the technology has become cheaper and more mainstream.
Sadly, prototype racing is still god-awfully expensive (Audi Sport used to do the ALMS on $15 million a season, plus whatever for Le Mans, by 2011 that got up to the $80-85 million a season range LM inclusive, now they're well into the lower 9 figures, and that's just one of the more extreme examples since it's LMP1), and BOP is being done outside of LMP1 (which uses a very different BOP format to about everything else, since major changes are only made once or twice a season) to cut on cost for carmakers (who are trying to make money off selling cars, parts and engineering), try to discourage spending (and development) by individual teams, and protect the factory teams from getting beaten by private teams who manage to squeeze more out of a car than the factory can. Especially now in GT racing. |
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18 Aug 2016, 17:52 (Ref:3666403) | #3994 | ||
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"Knowing that it's in you and you never let it out Is worse than blowing any engine or any wreck you'll ever have." -Mike Cooley |
18 Aug 2016, 18:11 (Ref:3666407) | #3995 | ||
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Maybe it's just me these days, I don't know... but I have loved GT racing for a long time. But these days, I don't get the feeling that the best car, best driver, or best team won most of the time... it just feels like, well, the team with the most favourable BoP on the day got the call.
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18 Aug 2016, 18:23 (Ref:3666411) | #3996 | |
Racer
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 337
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The thing about cost is that it doesn't have to be a fortune to go racing. How long has everyone here heard about the next great thing because the field is going to be leveled and the racing is going to be cheaper? We homologate everything, rank the drivers, BOP the cars, run twice the amount of caution laps so everyone gets back in order and nobody gets an advantage, create a numerous amount of sub classes just to please every driving ability, penalize cars left and right after the race because they broke some oddball rule, etc...
It's to the point where we might as well just broadcast whatever racing video game that you can play on XBox or PS4. Why go through all of the trouble of buying cars, hiring crew, sending the crew all over the country, fixing cars etc.. when we could just save a bunch of money by doing it virtually. In the end, you'll still get the same results. Plus, it's setting a bad precedent to quit before the end of the season just because you don't like the BOP. All that does is put the sanctioning body in a predicament. If they give in, then another team will just do the same thing. Taking your car and going over where the grass is greener won't result in happiness either. I suspect that in a few years with PWC and IMSA running GT3, GT4 and TCR, that each will have a slightly different BOP. So, if you are on the losing end at IMSA, go run PWC. When the BOP changes there and you are not winning, then go back to IMSA. When that doesn't work, quit and go run HSR. Teams not getting what they want, publicly complaining and then leaving is going to become the new norm. People don't want to work hard and stick it out any more. |
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18 Aug 2016, 18:27 (Ref:3666412) | #3997 | |
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For all the talk has anybody actually withdrawn because of BoP issues up until now? In IMSA that is?
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18 Aug 2016, 18:29 (Ref:3666413) | #3998 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 337
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18 Aug 2016, 18:42 (Ref:3666415) | #3999 | ||
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Sadly, in 2004, the FIA in the FIA GT Championship with the MC12 let the BOP genie out of the bottle. And he's not going back in anytime soon anywhere. Of course, NASCAR also had BOP before the "common template" cars from 2003 to now.
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18 Aug 2016, 18:57 (Ref:3666419) | #4000 | ||
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Also, if this is a problem with the 911 GT3's performance, only fault I'd give to Porsche is that they took so long to come out with a direct 991-based successor to the 997 GT3. The 991 platform 911 GT3 RSR GTE car came out in 2013, when the road car did. Porsche only officially had the 991 911 GT3 out this season.
In that time, Audi, Mercedes-Benz, McLaren, BMW, Lamborghini and others raced not only their first generation GT3 cars, but also introduced their current generation cars. Porsche left the 997 GT3 to soldier on, while waiting to introduce the 991 GT3 only this season. Even allowing that, I'm not sure there's any big problems with the car, though the current 991 GTE has struggled quite a bit in both IMSA and the WEC. But the GT3 is second in manufacturers' points in GTD right now and isn't that far behind Audi who lead the standings. But you do have to think about some questions, like is the LMP1 project and development of the new "mid-engine" 991 GTE taking away from the GT3 program? Or have Porsche screwed up their sums on the 991 GT3? Or is it down to driver talent/team ability? |
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