IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[Mike Hedlund]

Dropping the budget by $100-150k a season by slumming it in a pickup truck and having everyone rollup their sleeves and haul tires and fuel jugs around isn't going to change anything.

Where's the other $600-850k it's going to cost to run for the season going to come from to run the PWC season (in reference to jj, who i know is experienced in the paddock. and this is the IMSA thread...)?

And if you're talking about the IMSA season, where's the other $2.9 Million dollars coming from?

-mike

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Sorry, it does not work that way in the real world! EVERYONE who is in racing is a type A personality and will do what it takes to achieve their individual goals.

Tell that to Atherton who has more than once referred to such teams as "the worst sort of competitor." To their faces.

Even at the local dirt tracks it becomes cubic dollars to be competing at the front.

I can DIRECTLY confirm this is not the case. Not in most classes, anyway. The majority of dirt trackers are just out to have fun without breaking the bank.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

I can DIRECTLY confirm this is not the case. Not in most classes, anyway. The majority of dirt trackers are just out to have fun without breaking the bank.

Especially true if you run the car under someone else's banner... A season in 360 sprints, especially a local only series, is next to nothing compared to PWC. Even more so if you don't crash, or blow a motor up.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Sorry, it does not work that way in the real world! EVERYONE who is in racing is a type A personality and will do what it takes to achieve their individual goals. Even at the local dirt tracks it becomes cubic dollars to be competing at the front.

L.P.

A very fair point. My work is no different (lots of type A personalities) and there's a lot of ego and one-upping and keeping up with the joneses and this and that. I don't think racing at this level, or even the club level, is ever cheap; it's a virtual impossibility. There are ways to make it cheaper though.

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

Dropping the budget by $100-150k a season by slumming it in a pickup truck and having everyone rollup their sleeves and haul tires and fuel jugs around isn't going to change anything.

Where's the other $600-850k it's going to cost to run for the season going to come from to run the PWC season (in reference to jj, who i know is experienced in the paddock. and this is the IMSA thread...)?

And if you're talking about the IMSA season, where's the other $2.9 Million dollars coming from?

-mike

I'm not saying it will take anything less than a large pile of money to run a season of IMSA, in whatever class. I would think that by reducing some of the costs of non-crucial staff, extra paddock space, multiple transporters, fuel and whatever else could be trimmed, the result would be a decent chunk of money. Talking food, lodging, transportation costs and the like.

And for me personally, just being an underdog kind of guy, would love to see something like that happen. I remember at Sebring in I think 2010, there was a guy running GT3 Cup who won or podiumed in one of the races there or something. And it was literally just him, his family and some friends, an F350, a 24' trailer and some pop-up tents. Yeah they had scales and things you need to properly set a car up, but it wasn't like the NGT paddock 100' down the row with what seemed like 10 acres of flooring, 3 rigs and this and that and the other. It was just cool to see.

And yes i know $250k or whatever it took to run GT3 back then is a drop in the bucket to a full IMSA season, but that approach applied to a Weathertech season would be an interesting thing to see. Unlikely, but interesting nonetheless. I think if you compared the most basic rig in the IMSA paddock today with a factory or well-funded GT team from 15 years ago, the factory team of 2001 would look like paupers.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Especially true if you run the car under someone else's banner... A season in 360 sprints, especially a local only series, is next to nothing compared to PWC. Even more so if you don't crash, or blow a motor up.

It's all relative! Of course running a dirt car does not compare in cost to a PWC. The point is in every class, individually, you must spend at the front to consistently run at the front.





L.P.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

It's all relative! Of course running a dirt car does not compare in cost to a PWC. The point is in every class, individually, you must spend at the front to consistently run at the front.

Not really. So many dirt series have chassis/engine claim rules that prevents costs getting out of control...

I can jump into a 360 or 410 for a fixed cost and be just as competitive as the guy at the front so long as my skills are on par, and I make smart choices in tire selection and setup.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Maybe it's just me these days, I don't know... but I have loved GT racing for a long time. But these days, I don't get the feeling that the best car, best driver, or best team won most of the time... it just feels like, well, the team with the most favourable BoP on the day got the call.

I sort of feel the same. I haven't been one to complain about BoP too much, as when I started watching the ALMS it felt much less invasive and like it was actually trying to balance the performance of the vehicles.

The last few seasons in IMSA though it has felt more like "distribution of wins" and it really has been hurting my enthusiasm. Sure, sometimes they have gotten it right, but other times it has felt super artificial (Viper championship win for example).

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Not really. So many dirt series have chassis/engine claim rules that prevents costs getting out of control...

I can jump into a 360 or 410 for a fixed cost and be just as competitive as the guy at the front so long as my skills are on par, and I make smart choices in tire selection and setup.

Sorry my many years of Dirt experience do not bear that out. If you do not have the very best and the other team does, with drivers being equal, you are at a disadvantage.




L.P.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Sorry my many years of Dirt experience do not bear that out. If you do not have the very best and the other team does, with drivers being equal, you are at a disadvantage.

Seconded.

Dirt track racing is nice in that it's still pretty possible to do more with less thanks to the cramped tracks and traffic and track evolution and such, but you can plainly see the difference between a garage built engine and even something local but experienced like a Shark, nevermind something bigger dollar like a Shaver or Gaerte.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

I can jump into a 360 or 410 for a fixed cost and be just as competitive as the guy at the front so long as my skills are on par, and I make smart choices in tire selection and setup.

Bringing 410s into it just makes it a complete joke. There's a world of difference between a budget 410 and a top level World of Outlaws car in both cost and performance. That is not any kind of cost controlled category.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Accident

Seconded.

Dirt track racing is nice in that it's still pretty possible to do more with less thanks to the cramped tracks and traffic and track evolution and such, but you can plainly see the difference between a garage built engine and even something local but experienced like a Shark, nevermind something bigger dollar like a Shaver or Gaerte.

I'm not saying you can't, but, you can still be really competitive for pretty low budgets with the right guys who have good knowledge, and the right skills.

[Maelochs]

To the best of my understanding (slightly better than that of a dead insect) I'd say that teams Want to look big and prosperous because no one wants to invest in teams which look broke.

I could tell a potential sponsor that I am super-frugal and everyone does three jobs and my season budget is a few hundred K less than most others but unless I have a more successful record than the other teams, I suspect a sponsor would suspect that his money would go towards hiring a few gophers so everyone doesn't have to do three jobs.

Also, as I understand it, travel, food, and lodging is a lot of the cost, and squeezing nine guys into one hotel room might help a little, but not much. It might however have a serious impact when I want to hire new staff.

If I am looking to move up in the ranks, I might consider adding an engineer or a driver with more experience or a better record than current staff ... and when I explain that we lay out a tarp under the cars instead of that snap-together flooring, and everybody does extra work to save a buck ... that prospective employee might decide to wait for an offer from a team which doesn't seem to be so close to financial ruin---even if the wealth is mostly sham and overextended credit.

I am not saying it is not possible to run a team and be really frugal—and successful. I am saying that it would take a very special group of people who would be willing to do more for less and sacrifice personal comfort and privacy for the sake of the team ... and even then the savings wouldn’t be that significant.

I confess I have never run or worked for a racing team. Everything I think I know, I heard from people who do or claim they do or claim they could do it better if they did.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

To the best of my understanding (slightly better than that of a dead insect) I'd say that teams Want to look big and prosperous because no one wants to invest in teams which look broke.

I could tell a potential sponsor that I am super-frugal and everyone does three jobs and my season budget is a few hundred K less than most others but unless I have a more successful record than the other teams, I suspect a sponsor would suspect that his money would go towards hiring a few gophers so everyone doesn't have to do three jobs.

Also, as I understand it, travel, food, and lodging is a lot of the cost, and squeezing nine guys into one hotel room might help a little, but not much. It might however have a serious impact when I want to hire new staff.

If I am looking to move up in the ranks, I might consider adding an engineer or a driver with more experience or a better record than current staff ... and when I explain that we lay out a tarp under the cars instead of that snap-together flooring, and everybody does extra work to save a buck ... that prospective employee might decide to wait for an offer from a team which doesn't seem to be so close to financial ruin---even if the wealth is mostly sham and overextended credit.

I am not saying it is not possible to run a team and be really frugal—and successful. I am saying that it would take a very special group of people who would be willing to do more for less and sacrifice personal comfort and privacy for the sake of the team ... and even then the savings wouldn’t be that significant.

I confess I have never run or worked for a racing team. Everything I think I know, I heard from people who do or claim they do or claim they could do it better if they did.

I worked for a really frugal team in P675. It sucked.

[jjvincent]

You guys missed the point. I am only stating if I could afford to run a team by paying for it 100% out of my pocket (just like 99% of the teams do today) I would do it different. That's why I would not spend the money on all of the fluff that does nothing to make the car win. I would dump the money onto the crew, car and being efficient (race teams are some of the most inefficient businesses out there).

If you run a rental operation (like 99% of the teams do) then you have to be surrounded by fluff. If not, no renters and you can't race.

There's a team in GS that literally bought the complete Panoz GTLM team equipment and runs with it (used to run ST). That's pretty much the standard. If you want to run a two car ST team, for some reason you need a tractor trailer, motorcoach and then an extra truck and trailer. On top of that, you'll need at least 30 guys on the crew.

The sanctioning bodies actually like this and reward teams with bigger operations. The more you show up with, the better space you get. The more they come by and tell you that they appreciate you. Show up with something basic, then you are out in left field and nobody ever comes by to talk (the fans actually do because you are not as standoffish).

At least in GA, they limited you to one tractor trailer and a 25' awning for a two car team. If you wanted more stuff, then park it on the outside of the track. That's why it was funny that at the Indycar race at Barber, Ganassi shows up with four tractor trailers for his two car Indycar team and three motorcoaches. The DP team had one tractor trailer working under two 10X20 EZ ups and a basic pit cart. That team was the model for efficiency. Everyone on the team knew their job and they did it with less crew.

As long as you can live with actually showing up at a race and doing well but leave the fluff at home, you can do well. There's no mystery about it. Since that can't be done any more, we are stuck with what we got.

[ATLFalconsFAN]

Ben Keating buys a Riley LMP2, possibly to run in IMSA:
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...programme.html

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

Ben Keating buys a Riley LMP2, possibly to run in IMSA:
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...programme.html

Good news for the series, they need prototype numbers and a upward movement of a GTD regular is great for PR!

Also nice to see someone pick a Riley Multimatic over the standard Ligier or Oreca


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coach Ep]

Great to see Bleekemolen being retained as well.

Now to solve the logistic Detroit <-> LM test day puzzle...

And let's hope this serves as an incentive for other AM drivers to step up to the Prototype class!

[rich07]

Sounds like Keating is very happy with Riley and also having Bleekemolen as a co driver is a big bonus. Very happy to see them continue together.

My mind wanders and thinks of the Viper engine in the new Riley

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by rich07

Sounds like Keating is very happy with Riley and also having Bleekemolen as a co driver is a big bonus. Very happy to see them continue together.

My mind wanders and thinks of the Viper engine in the new Riley

Oh boy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Makaze]

Thinking out loud.

ESM shows up at the Roar of Daytona with a Onroak JS 2017 or two(that will have Acura Bodywork by late 2017) with HPD power.The question is.... are they only doing the big TUSCAR races and WEC(switching engines) or just doing TUSCAR?

IMSA will have the HPD DPi Engine(NSX engine) next month to dyno.

People keep putting Penske to HPD DPi program and forget about ESM.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by ATLFalconsFAN

Ben Keating buys a Riley LMP2, possibly to run in IMSA:
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...programme.html

Seeing as how he wants to get back to Le Mans, via the Auto entry attached to IWSC's Trueman Award........







L.P.

[Matt]

Oh look, a revival of the stupid TUSCAR thing.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by rich07

My mind wanders and thinks of the Viper engine in the new Riley

I imagine having Viper-esque bodywork on that Riley DPi... *shudders*

[Matt]

It would look incredible.

[WolfsburgRS]

Originally Posted by jjvincent

You guys missed the point. I am only stating if I could afford to run a team by paying for it 100% out of my pocket (just like 99% of the teams do today) I would do it different. That's why I would not spend the money on all of the fluff that does nothing to make the car win. I would dump the money onto the crew, car and being efficient (race teams are some of the most inefficient businesses out there).

The same point I was trying to make as well, thank you for being able to summarize it a bit more eloquently than I.

In other more relevant news, really great to see Keating stepping up into LMP2.