Parity Review Has Been Called

[Ares]

There was a disparity and Ford pushed for a last minute re-testing before season start. A small adjustment was indeed made. There were games being played in the testing process, twice to my knowledge this was found to be true. One was mechanical, the other was a test driver who had been instructed to drive the test car in a particular way. After all the testing of the cars, how did Ford (DJR) know last minute there was a problem? Why and how did this get missed in the extensive side-by-side testing program that DJR was a part of? Somewhere late in the off season, just prior to the start of the 2023 season, someone at DJR worked out that the extra frontend aero they had acquired? (How did they do that) was in fact not going to be an asset to them. And they needed it changed. ***** in the media for a re-test and try and fix the cockup, the rest is history. Just a team out of their depth? or a team to busy trying to get an advantage over their competitor and stuffed up. Little sympathy, and maybe that's Supercars attitude.

Hopefully the upcoming testing will sort this sorry saga out and we can move on to a better 2024. 2023 is almost in the bin.

[Tourer]

Thanks Ares - sounds like some deluxe game-playing was tried.

Back when the parity regime was started, cars were taken straight from a race meeting as raced, everything sealed, no opportunity for teams to play games. Of course, with new cars that wouldn’t be possible but it sounds like the current tech crew at Supercars could do with some advice from the old crew on how to keep teams honest.

[GTRMagic]

So... was any of this caused by DJR building their muletto on the previous generation Mustang, then needing to switch to the new shape at Ford's request?

Learnings lost, tears shed.. and like that...

[GTRMagic]

Ford Parity Fears Ongoing

What is the answer?
Would V8Supercar *really* homologated the new spec changes overnight?
Would the Ford squads, at the carmaker’s request, *really* boycott the event?
Are the Grove squad aligned? The owners are overseas but Mr Cauchi is in charge on the ground…

A game of chicken where nobody wins

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Ford Parity Fears Ongoing

What is the answer?
Would V8Supercar *really* homologated the new spec changes overnight?
Would the Ford squads, at the carmaker’s request, *really* boycott the event?
Are the Grove squad aligned? The owners are overseas but Mr Cauchi is in charge on the ground…

A game of chicken where nobody wins

Start from pitlane and race for the mustang cup.

[dirtymacca]

Mostert didn't do well in quali (9th)... was he busy getting his hair tinted for the race?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Would V8Supercar *really* homologated the new spec changes overnight?

The Camaros are showing a consistent 3-4 kph advantage on the straights, so it is definitely not too late to implement an urgent increase in Camaro shift cut time.

[Captain]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Camaros are showing a consistent 3-4 kph advantage on the straights, so it is definitely not too late to implement an urgent increase in Camaro shift cut time.

It's too late in my opinion. Shift cut changes have previously been made for early practice sessions, not just before a race. The Erebus team and Brodie have done a great job so far and they definitely don't deserve to have that put at jeopardy.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Captain

It's too late in my opinion. Shift cut changes have previously been made for early practice sessions, not just before a race. The Erebus team and Brodie have done a great job so far and they definitely don't deserve to have that put at jeopardy.

I agree. You also can't put untested parts on cars the week before the biggest race of the year, and then remove them over that race weekend if they have made too big of a change. As some have suggested. That would put the Ford teams at a massive disadvantage, as they would be binning how many sessions? And then starting from scratch. I'd be able to hear the screaming from here.

[V8 Fireworks]

It’s understood that the development of the Camaro was funded primarily by Supercars

Dear, oh dear.

... so this isn’t a case of two major car brands with a long and bitter rivalry squaring off, it’s internal politics and ultra-competitive race teams in disagreement.

Alarming.

The saddest part of this story is Ford clearly has a soft-spot for Supercars. I was in Detroit last year when the S650 Mustang was revealed and the first images of its racing variants were shown, which prominently featured the Supercar alongside the NASCAR, NHRA, GT3 and GT4 variants. Ford wants to be in Supercars, make no mistake about that.

Based on conversations I’ve had with Ford insiders, I’d rate the chances that – without any major changes to parity – that the company quits the sport entirely by the end of the 2024 season as better than 50 per cent.

This is a decision about the long-term future and sustainability of the Supercars category so the responsibility lies with Supercars Australia’s management teams – Chairman Barclay Nettlefold, CEO Shane Howard, etc.

https://torquecafe.com/why-fords-sup...rtain-opinion/

Such a shame that Supercars do not see Ford Performance as an important series partner and did not set it as the benchmark Gen 3 while slowly speeding up the secondary car. Oh well.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Dear, oh dear.



Alarming.


https://torquecafe.com/why-fords-sup...rtain-opinion/

Such a shame that Supercars do not see Ford Performance as an important series partner and did not set it as the benchmark Gen 3 while slowly speeding up the secondary car. Oh well.

Supercars are a disgrace and what you have posted above reinforces my long held belief that there is an anti-ford bias embedded within supercars.

[V8 Fireworks]

Waters furious during the Bathurst 1000 about straight line disparity, while Tander alludes to aero balance problem with "all of one make of car".

What a disgrace for the series to have the parts and not fit them due to undue influence from Chevrolet Racing who don't even really compete in the series...

A shameful and dark day for the sport, as Camaros build another 10 second lead. Dreadful. To think they could have had a close and exciting race and made Ford Performance happy just by fitted the data-driven parts to improve the disparity.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

What a disgrace for the series to have the parts and not fit them due to undue influence from Chevrolet Racing who don't even really compete in the series...

A shameful and dark day for the sport, as Camaros build another 10 second lead. Dreadful. To think they could have had a close and exciting race and made Ford Performance happy just by fitted the data-driven parts to improve the disparity.

“Influence from Chevrolet racing”?? No media releases, no statements from them - don’t know why you would claim that.

Not sure that the proposed aero change is actually “data driven” as I don’t recall a back to back test with it against the Camaro. Regardless, the rules don’t allow for the change at this stage (no parity change trigger) so all entered teams would have to agree to the aero kit being fitted outside the rules. They didn’t all agree.

I suspect that the aero kit may find its way onto the Mustangs if it stacks up under back to back testing but rushing it in without that & before Bathurst was always going to hard to get done.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

I suspect that the aero kit may find its way onto the Mustangs if it stacks up under back to back testing but rushing it in without that & before Bathurst was always going to hard to get done.

Why the lack of urgency to avoid Camaros checking out to 10 second leads over and over again? (The third time now.)

The parts were there to produce a close race, yet were not fitted.

Originally Posted by Tourer

no statements from them

Jamie Whincup:

Supercars has got a plan. They've got a sensational plan at the end of the year to go aero testing. I think we all just need to forget about it. This talk about doing aero updates for the next round is just outrageous. We've had enough. We've given the Ford guys all year to develop and they are as close as they've ever been right now.

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...n%20the%20race.

Of course Chevrolet Racing would not say anything, they are hardly involved. 888 Race Engineering, however, acts as their proxy and indeed representative.

Whincup seems to have a view that 888 Race Engineering and their Camaros have the "right" to be a leading team, which is an alarming view. Rather than the Mustang being the benchmark car, from the involved manufacturer Ford Performance, and the secondary Camaro slower brought up closer over the season...

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Why the lack of urgency to avoid Camaros checking out to 10 second leads over and over again? (The third time now.)

The parts were there to produce a close race, yet were not fitted.

Because the rules don’t allow for it.

The claim is that the parts would produce a close race but that hasn’t been proven by testing - it MAY be that the parts produce an advantage & need further change or adjustment for example.

You said that Chevrolet Racing, which does not compete in the series had influence. Jamie Whincup from 888 clearly competes in the series & is not Chevrolet Racing (any more than DJR is Ford).

[Gaz170]

The one thing from all of this is the whole process is flawed. The fact that there is a dispute at this stage shows no confidence in how Supercars handles this.
Maybe it is time to get one team to homologate both cars.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

it MAY be that the parts produce an advantage

And it would such a bad thing for Mustangs to have a moment in the sun at the highest profile race, after having a disadvantage all season?!

Somehow it is OK for Camaro to have an advantage in the Bathurst 1000km, but not for Mustang? That really makes no sense. A correction in favour of Mustang would be welcome to account for the rest of the season, after all -- pending the proper wind tunnel and AVL dyno testing that could not done in time for Bathurst.

[Mixer]

Two wrongs don't make a right. You cannot just make up rules to get an outcome for the brand you support.
That brand changes what it wants every two weeks and has been the boy who cried wolf this year.
The rules for handling all of these things are part of the contractual arrangements of the sport and were well known before the season started. Aero tests and transient dynos were not part of that, and are just a fantasy scenario introduced after the season had already started.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Aero tests and transient dynos were not part of that, and are just a fantasy scenario introduced after the season had already started.

Oh, the irony of inventing COG tests during the 2019 season.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Oh, the irony of inventing COG tests during the 2019 season.

The COG testing you were calling for in 2018 when the ZB rolled out.

[Mixer]

4 Mustangs in the top 10 unassailable by Will Brown shows the smoke being blown by Ford pre race isn't appropriate.

Anton looked quite speedy throughout his stint and the WAU cars also didn't seem affected by the Waters straight line speed complaint.

I guess we see now if a parity trigger is met.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

4 Mustangs in the top 10 unassailable by Will Brown shows the smoke being blown by Ford pre race isn't appropriate.

Anton looked quite speedy throughout his stint and the WAU cars also didn't seem affected by the Waters straight line speed complaint.

I guess we see now if a parity trigger is met.

Rubbish, if it wasn't for the shift cuts to the mustang introduced for sandown there wouldn't be a mustang left on the lead lap.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Camaros are showing a consistent 3-4 kph advantage on the straights, so it is definitely not too late to implement an urgent increase in Camaro shift cut time.

Giz hit 300kph, there's not a mustang that could get anywhere near that.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Giz hit 300kph, there's not a mustang that could get anywhere near that.

... in quali

If you looked at Natsoft anytime during the race you would see that all the top 10 or so cars had incredibly similar top speeds.

Cam was the one whining, and he was also fastest across the top.

Who knew that the thing you adjust at the back of the car to make you quick up the top slows you down a bit up and down the mountain?

ADP and both Grove cars had no issue.

Cam needs to quit whining, or flat out just quit. He's never going to finish better than 2nd in the championship.

Also for those complaining about Mustang pace late in the race?

Listen to the driver comments, many were fuel saving.

[dirtymacca]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Giz hit 300kph, there's not a mustang that could get anywhere near that.

Pink haired guy hit 297.. please check the facts.