Who is the Greatest F1 driver of all time?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

in relation to the GOAT thread, perhaps perseverance though injury should not be dismissed as a GOAT attribute?

The top of my list is Niki Lauda and perseverance though injury is one of the reasons. To go through what he did and to come back from that accident and miss retaining the WDC by one point and then the following year, win that second WDC is truly phenomenal.

[NaBUru38]

110 F1 drivers have won a race (or 99 if we don't count Indy 500 winners).


The drivers with most podiums without a win are Nick Heidfeld (13), Stefan Johansson (12), Chris Amon (11), Romain Grosjean (10), Jean Behra, Martin Brundle, Eddie Cheever (9 each) and Luigi Villoresi (8).


I think that any "top F1 drivers list" should stop counting at that.

[S griffin]

Sorry, but statistics don’t tell the whole story. What about the lost talents like Bellof, Pryce and Brise? Their stats aren’t great, but they did enough to warrant places on people’s 100 or 200 lists

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

110 F1 drivers have won a race (or 99 if we don't count Indy 500 winners).


The drivers with most podiums without a win are Nick Heidfeld (13), Stefan Johansson (12), Chris Amon (11), Romain Grosjean (10), Jean Behra, Martin Brundle, Eddie Cheever (9 each) and Luigi Villoresi (8).


I think that any "top F1 drivers list" should stop counting at that.

Including all race winners I can agree with.
Including drivers because of having a lot of podiums, less so.

Winning a race is a mark of beating the field (including presumably your teammate in the same car). Getting a lot of podiums is a suggestion that you just had a lengthy career, and that every time you raced someone did better.

In golf, you might be referred to as a 'choker'.

[S griffin]

Some like Amon and Jarier were just really unlucky, others like Brundle, Warwick and Johansson weren’t in the right place at right time and some like Heidfeld were very consistent, if not world class

[E.B]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The top of my list is Niki Lauda and perseverance though injury is one of the reasons. To go through what he did and to come back from that accident and miss retaining the WDC by one point and then the following year, win that second WDC is truly phenomenal.

In addition to that side of it I believe his contribution to the engineering side of the Ferrari rebirth in the mid 70's was more from him in terms of involvement with one man, Mauro Forghieri and was a greater achievement than the part Schumacher took in the late 90's when it was a far more structured set up with many more technical boffins, and management.

I believe Lauda was more an influence and contributor individually to the teams resurgence in the mid 70's (in the Enzo run days (with Luca di Montezemolo) than Schumacher was in the back end of the 90's with Byrne Brawn and other high calibre individuals, under the overall management of a less emotionally involved (than Enzo) Todt.

[S griffin]

Lauda really did get Ferrari together in the 70s. He wasn't afraid to point out the faults with the Ferrari, which hardly anyone else did

[wnut]

There is a good article on the dropped points system and its various ramifications for anyone interested here:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-...ropped-scores/

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

There is a good article on the dropped points system and its various ramifications for anyone interested here:

https://the-race.com/formula-1/what-...ropped-scores/

i see this picture from that article and wonder if the purpose of dropping race scores was to mitigate the often occurring non sporting personal grudges/agendas that affected the outcomes/points awarded at certain GPs?

edit: not sure why the image is not resizing. sorry

[bjohnsonsmith]

If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.

Not for me....

Anyhow.....

"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."

[52Paddy]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.

Not necessarily. Just for those who base GOAT on statistical success which, as we know, is only one part of the picture.

[S griffin]

Also without dropped scores there would be no one who won the GP title on two and four wheels

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Not for me....

Anyhow.....

"IF is a very long word in Formula One; in fact, IF is F1 spelled backwards."

If anything, F1 spelt backwards is 1F,

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by 52Paddy

Not necessarily. Just for those who base GOAT on statistical success which, as we know, is only one part of the picture.

Very true, stats are just part of it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Also without dropped scores there would be no one who won the GP title on two and four wheels

Graham Hill would have won it by one point, instead he lost it to Surtees by one point.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If anything, F1 spelt backwards is 1F,

Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....

I'm pretty sure that it was something that Murray Walker once said (and it that's the case, as far as I'm concerned it is part of Motor-Racing folklore).

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'm pretty sure that it was something that Murray Walker once said (and it that's the case, as far as I'm concerned it is part of Motor-Racing folklore).

Indeed so.....

[S griffin]

And Clive James said it on the 84 Season Review, in reference to the Monaco GP only being half points, which was very crucial in the end

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

If Prost hadn't been forced to drop those points, he might have been a five times WDC and Senna only two times and the GOAT poll would then be quite different.

However the driver would modify his approach to winning the championship depending on the scoring system.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Maybe, I just copied the quote as I found it.....

Works if you use the Roman numeral Ayse.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by wnut

However the driver would modify his approach to winning the championship depending on the scoring system.

Very true. I think the best example of that is Piquet in the 1983 SA GP, where he dropped to third after leading most of the way, just to make sure of the title

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

Works if you use the Roman numeral Ayse.

That is true!

[bauble]

If you did not live through the '50's, how can you possibly have a valid opinion?