[iV8SC15R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000: 8-11 Oct (WITH POLL)

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

You missed the point.

The question is why does a mechanical flag for such a minor thing have to be served immediately when a drive through for a far more dangerous transgression can be served in the next three laps or whenever it suits?

Teams need time to prepare to fix things - even if it is only tape or a reboot of an ecu. With circuits having lap times in the 50 second range it doesn't allow enough time to plan a proper fix of a supposedly dangerous car.

Whats more dangerous than a damaged car? It shouldn't be on the track, which is why the rules make you come in straight away. This isn't a rule only in V8s, its the same anywhere.

If the teams need time to fix things, the car sits in the garage. Quite simple really (except that its a Ford, so its unfair, but if it happened to a Holden team its a blatent disregard for the rules...)

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Whats more dangerous than a damaged car? It shouldn't be on the track, which is why the rules make you come in straight away. This isn't a rule only in V8s, its the same anywhere.

If the teams need time to fix things, the car sits in the garage. Quite simple really (except that its a Ford, so its unfair, but if it happened to a Holden team its a blatent disregard for the rules...)

You mean like the supergirls who drove down conrod with the front right torn out of it and with no steering? Like everyone does when they get bad damage. Why is a car that is basically uncontrollable and going 200+ kmh slower than everyone else ok and one with its brake lights on so dangerous that it needs to pit immediately?

There has to be a difference between a minor issue (which they both were whether it was the Nissan or the Ford or anyone else with trivial bits of bodywork loose) and a major problem.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by djr81

There has to be a difference between a minor issue (which they both were whether it was the Nissan or the Ford or anyone else with trivial bits of bodywork loose) and a major problem.

No there doesn't, if you get a meatball, you get a meatball, end of story.

Otherwise who is making the call, who decides which is serious? it is a massive can of worms.

The car had a mechanical issue, it had to serve the prescribed penalty, it did so, and they got on with life.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

You mean like the supergirls who drove down conrod with the front right torn out of it and with no steering? Like everyone does when they get bad damage. Why is a car that is basically uncontrollable and going 200+ kmh slower than everyone else ok and one with its brake lights on so dangerous that it needs to pit immediately?

There has to be a difference between a minor issue (which they both were whether it was the Nissan or the Ford or anyone else with trivial bits of bodywork loose) and a major problem.

I think i watched a different race to you. The supergirls pitted straight away in the footage i saw. I'm sure if they tried to continue driving they would be flagged immidiately.

There shouldn't be any difference. If the car adheres to the rules, its good to go. If it doesn't, its required to pit and be fixed. Inconsitancy is the worse thing in V8s, dont suggest they bring more into it! Once again, it was the brake lights NOT working, not being stuck on, that was the issue.

If the teams thought it was an unreasonable rule, itd be removed, but guess what, no-one is calling for it to be removed!

[Axeman444]

Didn't someone else (Tander?) do what Whincup did several years ago, trying to avoid double stacking by slowing down on Conrod under caution so his teammate who was ahead of him was miles up the road? After that they were told not to do it again from memory.

Regardless of who it was, and what team, it shouldn't be allowed, just like the phantom cramp when there is 30 sec to go on the NRL clock on the last tackle to try and avoid handing the ball over with the potential of the opposition getting some points to win.

Frosty may not have got to CL, but we will never know now will we

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

I think i watched a different race to you. The supergirls pitted straight away in the footage i saw. I'm sure if they tried to continue driving they would be flagged immidiately.

There shouldn't be any difference. If the car adheres to the rules, its good to go. If it doesn't, its required to pit and be fixed. Inconsitancy is the worse thing in V8s, dont suggest they bring more into it! Once again, it was the brake lights NOT working, not being stuck on, that was the issue.

If the teams thought it was an unreasonable rule, itd be removed, but guess what, no-one is calling for it to be removed!

Maybe we were watching a different race because I remember them being stuck on.

Yeah it is a can of worms but the inconsistency is already there. Drive through in the next three laps for a really bad driver infringement, immediately for a minor meatball. If you have the side torn out of it like the Erebus car then hey just finish your lap off or if it is pumping fluid then make a half an attempt at staying off line. These events are much more of a concern and a danger than brake lights will ever be.

My problem is they appear to be all over the minor, trivial stuff and then fail to act when it gets hard.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

Maybe we were watching a different race because I remember them being stuck on.

Yeah it is a can of worms but the inconsistency is already there. Drive through in the next three laps for a really bad driver infringement, immediately for a minor meatball. If you have the side torn out of it like the Erebus car then hey just finish your lap off or if it is pumping fluid then make a half an attempt at staying off line. These events are much more of a concern and a danger than brake lights will ever be.

My problem is they appear to be all over the minor, trivial stuff and then fail to act when it gets hard.

The parker lights were on, the brake lights weren't (some cars dont have their lights on during the race so thats not an issue)

The rules on this are perfect the way they are in my eyes (and almost every racing series on the planet)

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Axeman444

Didn't someone else (Tander?) do what Whincup did several years ago, trying to avoid double stacking by slowing down on Conrod under caution so his teammate who was ahead of him was miles up the road? After that they were told not to do it again from memory.

Regardless of who it was, and what team, it shouldn't be allowed, just like the phantom cramp when there is 30 sec to go on the NRL clock on the last tackle to try and avoid handing the ball over with the potential of the opposition getting some points to win.

Frosty may not have got to CL, but we will never know now will we

You're confusing two seperate issues. People are talking about race conditions, on the same lap (albeit with a penalty to serve when green)

There was always a rule of maintining a distance when behind the safety car.

JW didn't impede anyone, they were nowhere near him for the whole lap. If he was blocking, i'm sure they would have issued a penalty.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

You're confusing two seperate issues. People are talking about race conditions, on the same lap (albeit with a penalty to serve when green)

There was always a rule of maintining a distance when behind the safety car.

JW didn't impede anyone, they were nowhere near him for the whole lap. If he was blocking, i'm sure they would have issued a penalty.

The radio exchange is pretty damning.

“Pit lane drive through penalty. Conserve a bit of fuel over the top, don’t let anyone past you. Don’t put any pressure on Craig. We’re playing the team game now,” Mark Dutton, Whincup’s engineer said over the radio.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by djr81

“Pit lane drive through penalty. Conserve a bit of fuel over the top, don’t let anyone past you. Don’t put any pressure on Craig. We’re playing the team game now,” Mark Dutton, Whincup’s engineer said over the radio.

I hate to tell you mate, that is a race driver's job.

If JW had really held Frosty up, he would have been weaving all around and foaming at the mouth, we saw none of that.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by djr81

The radio exchange is pretty damning.

“Pit lane drive through penalty. Conserve a bit of fuel over the top, don’t let anyone past you. Don’t put any pressure on Craig. We’re playing the team game now,” Mark Dutton, Whincup’s engineer said over the radio.

Interested where you got that quote from Dutton. I heard it live and the bits you've got in bold weren't transmitted in the telecast.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

The radio exchange is pretty damning.

“Pit lane drive through penalty. Conserve a bit of fuel over the top, don’t let anyone past you. Don’t put any pressure on Craig. We’re playing the team game now,” Mark Dutton, Whincup’s engineer said over the radio.

I understand that you're a ford supporter, and are used to drivers saying things like 'I'm trying to win a championship, tell the other cars to move out the way' (paraphrased for lulz), but the idea of racing is to be in front of everyone else. The more people who are behind you, the less positions you'll lose when you take the penalty.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Interested where you got that quote from Dutton. I heard it live and the bits you've got in bold weren't transmitted in the telecast.

I heard it Tourer, I can't remember if it was Mark Dutton or the commentary team though.

[djr81]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Interested where you got that quote from Dutton. I heard it live and the bits you've got in bold weren't transmitted in the telecast.

Here:
http://www.foxsports.com.au/motor-sp...-1227565308745

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

I understand that you're a ford support, and are used to drivers saying things like 'I'm trying to win a championship, tell the other cars to move out the way' (paraphrased for lulz), but the idea of racing is to be in front of everyone else. The more people who are behind you, the less psosition you'll lose when you take the penalty.

And I understand the whatever it takes mentality that is prevalent in sport/life/everything these days. It doesn't make what 888 chose to do right, however.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

And I understand the whatever it takes mentality that is prevalent in sport/life/everything these days. It doesn't make what 888 chose to do right, however.

Yes it does, they're there to win. JW wasn't instructed to go slower, he was instructed to keep the drivers behind him. If you feel he should have pulled over and let everyone pass, you're following the wrong sport. This sport is about winning (or finishing as high up the order as possible)

[djr81]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Yes it does, they're there to win. JW wasn't instructed to go slower, he was instructed to keep the drivers behind him. If you feel he should have pulled over and let everyone pass, you're following the wrong sport. This sport is about winning (or finishing as high up the order as possible)

He was instructed to save fuel over the top when.
A: He had pitted a lap later than everyone else because he had ignored instructions and then blown by the safety car.
B: He didn't need to anyway.

Its not magic you save fuel by making less horsepower which slows you down. So no, he wasn't instructed to slow down just to drive the car in such a manner to make it slower. If that makes any difference to you then, well good luck to you.

If you look at the splits for that lap (They are on Natsoft) you can see what was done. There was a lot more than just a bit of fuel saving happening.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by djr81

He was instructed to save fuel over the top when.
A: He had pitted a lap later than everyone else because he had ignored instructions and then blown by the safety car.
B: He didn't need to anyway.

Its not magic you save fuel by making less horsepower which slows you down. So no, he wasn't instructed to slow down just to drive the car in such a manner to make it slower. If that makes any difference to you then, well good luck to you.

If you look at the splits for that lap (They are on Natsoft) you can see what was done. There was a lot more than just a bit of fuel saving happening.

And yet the cars behind weren't rattling on his bumper? If you have an issue, maybe you should be directing it towards the teams who weren't attempting to pass

[AnEmmoFan]

Interesting strategic race. Some comments
1 why do they persist with the shared boom (I.e double stacking)? Why have 50% of the field compromised. You do not see it at LeMans or Indy, so why here for the biggest race.
2. Why not introduce pit stop rules like LeMans, where refuelling and tyre changing are separated
3. Safety car procedure needs work. Spectating from outside turn one saw several times over the weekend, where drivers went past tow trucks and other course vehicles at full racing speed. How is this different to what used to go on in the 1970s and 1980s?
4. On circuit commentary is enthusiastic but did not deliver good information. Hard to follow some aspects if race.
5. Driving standards in lower categories need review. Moving over on straights is not the done thing. Needs to be stamped out before a tragedy occurs.

[chavez]

Originally Posted by AnEmmoFan

Interesting strategic race. Some comments
1 why do they persist with the shared boom (I.e double stacking)? Why have 50% of the field compromised. You do not see it at LeMans or Indy, so why here for the biggest race.
2. Why not introduce pit stop rules like LeMans, where refuelling and tyre changing are separated
3. Safety car procedure needs work. Spectating from outside turn one saw several times over the weekend, where drivers went past tow trucks and other course vehicles at full racing speed. How is this different to what used to go on in the 1970s and 1980s?
4. On circuit commentary is enthusiastic but did not deliver good information. Hard to follow some aspects if race.
5. Driving standards in lower categories need review. Moving over on straights is not the done thing. Needs to be stamped out before a tragedy occurs.

1. It does seem silly. Especially when two competing teams share the same boom, but it was done for cost savings. Probably needs review.

2. I also think this would be a good idea. Would reward drivers who can better manage their tyres.

3. For whatever reason CAMS and V8 Supercars have let this go on for far too long. Other series have seen sense to limit speed under the safety car. It is about time it happened here.

4. Can't comment wasn't there.

5. Needs more consistent policing. Refer to thread on the V8 Utes incidents at Adelaide this year where are far more dangerous incident was not penalised, yet a less dangerous incident was heavily penalised.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by AnEmmoFan

Interesting strategic race. Some comments
1 why do they persist with the shared boom (I.e double stacking)? Why have 50% of the field compromised. You do not see it at LeMans or Indy, so why here for the biggest race.

I agree, plus there is plenty of room in the Bathurst pitlane for this.

The argument against though is to keep common rules for each championship race, plus the added expense of needing extra pit crew to service two cars at once instead of one.

One of the problems of Bathurst being part of the championship, it has to conform to championship regulations...

[GTRMagic]

F1 only has a single boom per team...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

F1 only has a single boom per team...

I am pretty sure of Jamie had got in and out he would still have been top 10 and probably bagged a few having fresh pads when others ahead hadn't changed them.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

F1 only has a single boom per team...

This isn't F1

When was a single boom per team introduced? Early 2000s if memory serves, perhaps 2001/02? Got by fine for decades before it....

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by one five five

This isn't F1

When was a single boom per team introduced? Early 2000s if memory serves, perhaps 2001/02? Got by fine for decades before it....

.....and pit crew members were injured when booms were brought down on their heads by cars trying to get through a forest of pneumatic hoses hanging from all the booms during those decades before.

The one boom per 2 cars was brought in on safety grounds. Since then of course Bathurst pit lane has been changed and there are less cars so heaps more room. The complication then is an additional crew, additional fire suits etc, getting the additional crew trained up for the one race etc.