The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[Matador]

Originally Posted by AGD

I was hoping for the turbo 4 for nostalgic purposes. We have lots of 3.4L NA V8s as it is including the TMG Rebellion engine itself obviously. Is there any chance then that Rebellion gets the same engine (minus the hybrid) or a slightly weakened version of the same engine as the factory team?

Mike's word about the hybrid system (or the lack of news regarding the hybrid system) is a bit concerning. I'm sure Toyota is working feverishly and maybe they are just being secretive, but with the combination of the old engine design, possible lack of hybrid development, and possible lack of chassis development, is there any chance that this project may not come close to what we are hoping for in 2012? Then again, there is something to be said about going with an engine with a proven track record.

Their racing hybrid system has been in development for quite a while.

Originally Posted by Félix

The Supra used 3 engines in JGTC-Super GT over 15 years: 2.1L I4 (from previous LM/IMSA/WRC projects), Lexus V8 (Grand-Am engine) and 3.4 (new rules, FNippon/Indy engine). I'm not sure which one they used for the endurance car but I think I read it was the small turbo engine.

The Supra never used the 3.4V8. That engine came in when the SC had already taken over.

The Supra GT LM used an I4 turbo

[deggis]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

TMG EV P001

Umm... I guess these are these the "TMG colors" now? Compare to the LMP illustration (quick link). Maybe a hint of the livery (pending big enough sponsor deals). If the F1 liveries are a hint, expect something really boring.

Originally Posted by CTD

Yes but as Japanese Samurai points out, having a Japanese thumbprint on the car would be a huge boost

Engine doesn't count? "...and a petrol hybrid powertrain produced by Toyota Motor Corporation in Japan", or do I take this too literally?

I have no idea of the actual staff in Cologne but the F1 team always had some national feel compared to almost all other teams (besides Ferrari) who are very British.

[MulsanneMike]

Originally Posted by Japanese Samurai

Surely, the projects were successful, thanks to foreign technology.
However, didn't Japanese motor sports industry decline?
Isn't Japanese manufacturers' racing project "ODA" to foreign constructors?
This is his opinion. But He is not antiforeignism.
He just believes Japanese motorsports technology.

But TMC has developed the engine and hybrid system for the Toyota LMP...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by deggis

Umm... I guess these are these the "TMG colors" now? Compare to the LMP illustration (quick link). Maybe a hint of the livery (pending big enough sponsor deals). If the F1 liveries are a hint, expect something really boring.

Their race liveries have been black red and white lately, correct. The LFA at the Ring wore these colors. Unless Panasonic is a main sponsor I think they'll stay that way. The cars will look good though, I always liked Toyota's colors.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

Their race liveries have been black red and white lately, correct. The LFA at the Ring wore these colors. Unless Panasonic is a main sponsor I think they'll stay that way. The cars will look good though, I always liked Toyota's colors.

Ok. Just noticed that of course the TMG logo has the same colours.

Pic for other people (in addition to me) who had not seen this:

[deggis]

Cologne factory tour from the F1 years (2007):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujAfoXaHBYY

ps. Afaik Howett has since left Toyota.

[awegrzyn]

Looks like we have a missing thread about Toyota coming back to Le Mans.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95341

Toyota is back into racing for Le Mans 2012 with their new gasoline-electric car.
It looks as if they mean business.

[deggis]

No, but we have a wrong topic: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...128831&page=99

[CTD]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Yes, I know, but WR is slowing becoming a synonym for Wirth Research in current LMP racing.

But let's try and fight it, as there should only be one WR for all true enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Don't forgot that TMG designed the Toyota GT-One. Have a look at http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/heritage.html

I know, but the TS020 had smaller problems which all lead to failure they where at Le Mans - Problems which might have been avoidable for an more experienced team.

Originally Posted by gwyllion

A "reliable chassis" is one way of describing the Courage LC75. I prefer the famous quote of Nick Wirth: "The Courage test was so memorable because the basic car porpoised so badly it nearly leaped off its mounts and we could have lost it down the tunnel!"

Nick Wirth's quote is quite true, but doesn't erase the case that the LC75 chassis is still raced in many cars and all has been quite ok (except the huge failure in Courage LC75 car)

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by awegrzyn

Looks like we have a missing thread about Toyota coming back to Le Mans.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95341

Toyota is back into racing for Le Mans 2012 with their new gasoline-electric car.
It looks as if they mean business.

Sorted.

[ss_collins]

Engine info - not sure - not sure anyone knows outside of Toyota even if they claim to. I thought I had heard the engine run but the info I now have suggests that I heard something else very potent!

[ger80]

huh?

[kurski]

Originally Posted by deggis

ps. Afaik Howett has since left Toyota.

So it is left out Pascal Vasselon.

[Félix]

Originally Posted by MulsanneMike

TOMS became RTN. TTE became TMG.

TOMS still exists and races in Super GT and Japan F3. I'm confused about the distinctions/similarities between TOMS and TOMS GB and where the non-Japanese TOMS came from. For instance I know Andy Thorby designed TOMS F3s and an unraced LMP1. I know they did touring cars and the TS010, but there were also Le Mans cars that were designed in Japan so that's where it becomes confusing.

[JAG]

According to Tiff Needell's book TOM'S GB was set-up by himslef and John Wickham at a base in Norfolk. TOM'S team boss Taichi-san wanted a European base for what they believed would ultimately become the HQ for their F1 effort. They started by running a Toyota Corolla in the WTCC before going on to run the WEC Group C program.

[Holt]

Can this be real?

Toyota vs Audi vs Peugeot?

Theres practically no chance Toyota wins in thier first try since '99 with a car that wont see the track until a a few months before Le Mans, a hybrid at that, but its going to be great having THREE manufacturers of this caliber going at it

[TF110]

How do you know? It may have hit the track in another iteration. The whole thread issue was about Toyota/Dome testing. There may be some truth to that
@collins, perhaps you heard the engine in the TMG Lexus LS? Maybe there's more to that engine?

[AGD]

Originally Posted by JAG

D/M.Franchitti
Wheldon

Sadly, we can scratch Wheldon off any rumor list. Very unfortunate.

I hope this does not sound like I am being opportunistic on the basis of horrible news, but I'm really hoping that Dario Franchitti decides that it is time to give Le Mans and sports car racing a go while he still has a good shot at linking up with a great team.

Originally Posted by Holt

Can this be real?

Toyota vs Audi vs Peugeot?

Theres practically no chance Toyota wins in thier first try since '99 with a car that wont see the track until a a few months before Le Mans, a hybrid at that, but its going to be great having THREE manufacturers of this caliber going at it

I think winning will be very difficult, but I think the opportunity might be there with the rules and all. The program just seems to be too raw at the moment to say they are favorites right now. We need to see the details of the program and how much development has been done before we automatically put them in the class of the giants. I'm a little concerned if the engine choice is the modified 3.4L V8, but that may be a reliable option and I'm sure they can get more power out of it. The opposite end would be the 2L turbo rumor. That may have great potential, but how are the turbo rules? Can it be reliable out of the box? Probably, but only with a lot of development.

Anyway, who thought Audi would get on the podium in 1999? I know a podium is not a win, but that year just getting on the podium was like a win in a way. We'll have to see.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by AGD

I hope this does not sound like I am being opportunistic on the basis of horrible news, but I'm really hoping that Dario Franchitti decides that it is time to give Le Mans and sports car racing a go while he still has a good shot at linking up with a great team.

At times like these all drivers need to assess what they have achieved and want from their future career.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by AGD

I think winning will be very difficult, but I think the opportunity might be there with the rules and all. The program just seems to be too raw at the moment to say they are favorites right now. We need to see the details of the program and how much development has been done before we automatically put them in the class of the giants. I'm a little concerned if the engine choice is the modified 3.4L V8, but that may be a reliable option and I'm sure they can get more power out of it. The opposite end would be the 2L turbo rumor. That may have great potential, but how are the turbo rules? Can it be reliable out of the box? Probably, but only with a lot of development.

Anyway, who thought Audi would get on the podium in 1999? I know a podium is not a win, but that year just getting on the podium was like a win in a way. We'll have to see.

Well, I hope they at least put full resources behind the effort. Not a half hearted effort like Aston Martin but a full effort like Peugeot or Audi. Top shelf drivers and equipment. Like '98 and '99

And I do want to see one all Japanese driver car from Toyota

[TF110]

This is a factory effort. I believe in Toyota, and I think with the right drivers, they'll be on pace immediately. They know hybrid's better than any company I'd imagine. They've probably been waiting for this opportunity. People may say the car hasn't rolled out yet and this and that, but this is Toyota. They've been here before, and their latest effort at LeMans was THE PACE SETTER. Reliability issues aside (tires mostly), they were comfortably faster than anyone.

[awegrzyn]

I could not be more happier. Being a Toyota fan and all my life driving Supras I can tell you this is going to be my favorite Le Mans. I hope the new car is going to look as good as the GT One did.

Hayanari Shimoda would be my pick for an all Japaneses car. Can't wait.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by Holt

Well, I hope they at least put full resources behind the effort. Not a half hearted effort like Aston Martin but a full effort like Peugeot or Audi. Top shelf drivers and equipment. Like '98 and '99

And I do want to see one all Japanese driver car from Toyota

I'm sure it won't be anywhere near an AMR-One disaster type situation, but can it win right out of the box? It'll be interesting to see what happens.

I wonder if they'll go with 3 cars at Le Mans this year. It seems like that would be the obvious thing to do, but maybe they'll try to not over-extend themselves at the very beginning? I guess that is another detail of the program that is to be announced/determined.

[deggis]

Even if Toyota has to skip Sebring (and if also Spa), would they still apply for full season entry in WEC to get classified in the manufacturer's championship? That's if part-season entries won't be classified. I know about the fines for skipping races, but those should nominal against the other benefits.

[AGD]

Originally Posted by deggis

Even if Toyota has to skip Sebring (and if also Spa), would they still apply for full season entry in WEC to get classified in the manufacturer's championship? That's if part-season entries won't be classified. I know about the fines for skipping races, but those should nominal against the other benefits.

To be seen I suppose, but it could be beneficial to not be part of the championship if that means no testing restrictions and no engine change restrictions. On the other hand, if Petit is on the schedule again, Toyota may get squeezed out of the grid if they are not part of a championship. Then again, I'm sure the organizers would make sure that Toyota would race.