[WEC Race] WEC 2013 Round 2: Spa-Francorchamps

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Salamus

I agree with you Dario about the lack of successful Porsche debuts.

I think a contributing factor (and correct me if I'm wrong) is the time period between the debut of the road car and the race car. Both the 430 and 458 street cars debuted about a year before the race versions. However, the 997 and 991 GT3s have debuted at the same time as the race car. I don't know if this has affected the 911's debuts but it could be a reason.

I don't know. But while Ferrari are not based on the Scuderia (or whatever will be the name of the future model), Porsche seems to have based its car on the GT3, but only for the chassis. Engine is the old one, so this car is an hybrid, and has not so much sense to race a season with a car having only half of the final RSR specs!
How can you show to potential customer team how much competitive is the car?
Then, with new chassis and wheelbase, I would never expected tyres troubles, at the same way of the 997 RSR!
In the last years, another one great trouble was the deny for customer team to work together with Porsche to improve the car. Porsche has given less support to private teams, and some of them decided to jump from the other part of the river.
Ferrari, on the other hand, has done the opposite: has worked together with private teams, supporting them with the help of Michelotto, and Ferrari has become the best-seller of the class, grabbing the title that was of the Porsche up to 2006.

[jsTrecu]

Audi 1-2-3

Toyota was clearly beaten today, not only on reability but also on pace. At least their economy should allow them to stay on track one more lap per stint than Audi at Le Mans.
I'm hoping for a fierce GTE battle at LM with Porsche somewhere in the mix, but it's unlukely...

46 days to go

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

I was about to say "penalties", but then checked the timing data and saw that the 51 got two drive-through penalties while the 98 got a single one.

#51 should have also got another penalty.

[The Badger]

Another Ferrari attack on a Porsche ..... and the stewards say no penalty ..... love to hear the reasoning behind that decision !!!

[TF110]

I see I have a lot of detractors. Everyone expected a walk over from Audi but the race was actually... a race! At least until the #7 dropped out. The situation last season was reversed when Toyota lapped faster than Audi but those races were close except Shanghai and Interlagos. I didn't realize the forum turned into such a frenzy when Audi won a race after a competitors car had a failure. I didn't see this reaction when Audi lost with people mocking their fans. At least it was a good race in GTE, though. A lot of penalties for track limits made it hard to follow as well.

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by TF110

I see I have a lot of detractors. Everyone expected a walk over from Audi but the race was actually... a race! At least until the #7 dropped out. The situation last season was reversed when Toyota lapped faster than Audi but those races were close except Shanghai and Interlagos. I didn't realize the forum turned into such a frenzy when Audi won a race after a competitors car had a failure. I didn't see this reaction when Audi lost with people mocking their fans. At least it was a good race in GTE, though. A lot of penalties for track limits made it hard to follow as well.

I didn't realize it turned into a frenzy...

And the only reason you're a target is because you constantly post about the Toyota's superiority and make excuses. Even now you had to make a smart remark about the "competitors car failure" with a smilie and try to turn the tables on us

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MihokS5

I didn't realize it turned into a frenzy...

And the only reason you're a target is because you constantly post about the Toyota's superiority and make excuses. Even now you had to make a smart remark about the "competitors car failure" with a smilie and try to turn the tables on us

You read way too far into things. I "constantly post about their superiority"? They just lost twice in a row. I posted the smiley (actually a laugh) because people taking things to a personal level. Placing labels on people, mocking people, plagarizing remarks etc. When I said competitors car failure I brought up a point. Peugeot lost all their cars in 2010 @LeMans, did people call out Peugeot fans and try to debase them? I don't mind Toyota lost because they at least raced. I also don't boast when they did win and call out Audi fans or try to criticize them for being livid about who they support. LeMans is the race they need to win. They have a good month to get faster and I think they will.

[gwyllion]

You do realize that Toyota #7 was challenging for the lead, because of the puncture of the Audi #1 and the early safety car period, during which Audi #1 lost its 24 sec lead.

Audi #1 was more than 1 second a lap faster than Toyota #7. That would have been more than enough to make up for the extra fuel stop at the end of the race.

[gustavobamba]

I'm disappointed with the comments of certain members of this forum, enough personal attacks. each member is entitled to their opinion but please leave the personal attacks out of this forum. if this type of comments continue the loser is the "ten tenths."

Regarding race, the Audi totally dominated, even when the Toyota led the race. It seems that Audi has done the homework and has a very balanced car for Le mans and the WEC. As for Toyota just find a way to explain their failure, as do not have the budget of Audi are risking much and apparently are not having success. But if they continue to spend less tire and gasoline that Audi (diesel), may have a small chance at Le Mans. As for the WEC they do not have a version downforce in 2013, the title is lost ...

[jsTrecu]

Maybe an Audi vs Toyota thread is needed like the Porsche/Ferrari one

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

You do realize that Toyota #7 was challenging for the lead, because of the puncture of the Audi #1 and the early safety car period, during which Audi #1 lost its 24 sec lead.

Audi #1 was more than 1 second a lap faster than Toyota #7. That would have been more than enough to make up for the extra fuel stop at the end of the race.

Not the whole race. The #8 car got better towards the end when the track cooled. The #7 wouldve as well as all the cars did. Its all a case of what ifs. Something that also interested me was that Audi #1 escaped penalty for pitting under the yellow. I guess since it had a puncture that was overlooked.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by TF110

Not the whole race. The #8 car got better towards the end when the track cooled. The #7 wouldve as well as all the cars did. Its all a case of what ifs. Something that also interested me was that Audi #1 escaped penalty for pitting under the yellow. I guess since it had a puncture that was overlooked.

You mean the safety car period? The #1 never pitted under the safety car, it stayed out (with the puncture) and pitted a lap after the safety car came in. It did an entire green flag lap with that puncture and kept the lead, so it clearly wasn't too bad.

And enough with the excuses and spin. The #1 was almost a second a lap faster than the #7 while both were in the race. That's it. Your what ifs and conjecture are tiresome.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Beryl

You mean the safety car period? The #1 never pitted under the safety car, it stayed out (with the puncture) and pitted a lap after the safety car came in. It did an entire green flag lap with that puncture and kept the lead, so it clearly wasn't too bad.

And enough with the excuses and spin. The #1 was almost a second a lap faster than the #7 while both were in the race. That's it. Your what ifs and conjecture are tiresome.

Truth is conjecture and spin? I don't think you even understand what I speak. The race director said no pitting in the next 2 or 3 laps after the safety car. The radio LeMans crew were bringing it up. I guess thats conjecture too. Excuses you say? What excuses? On race pace the #7 car was damn close to Audi. If Audi was a second a lap faster through the race, they would have been long gone from the #7.

Your negativity is obvious. The race was actually way closer than how you're portraying it. I never said Toyota was faster. Never said they were better than Audi. Enough with your negative posts trying to turn things into an argument. You don't like what I say thats too bad. Ignore me but I wont stop posting my thoughts because you say so. This is an open forum and everyone has the right to express their views.

[gregtummer]

Actually Radio Le Mans was talking about how the GTE cars that pitted should have been penalized.

The race director said no pitting under the caution period (unless it is an emergency and then you have to come back in under green) until the race was back under green.

Well the green flag came back out and the #1 Audi was past the pit lane, but the further behind GTE cars weren't, hence they didn't have to do a full lap under green like the #1 Audi did. Radio Le Mans was saying how that was unfair in their opinion.

[jsTrecu]

Why should a car wait 2 or 3 laps to pit after the race goes green when the SC period ends ?
When the SC pulls out you cross the line, and at the end of that lap you are free to pit, like Audi did.

The problem was with GT cars pitting before crossing the line, they sort of followed the SC into the pits.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gregtummer

Actually Radio Le Mans was talking about how the GTE cars that pitted should have been penalized.

The race director said no pitting under the caution period (unless it is an emergency and then you have to come back in under green) until the race was back under green.

Well the green flag came back out and the #1 Audi was past the pit lane, but the further behind GTE cars weren't, hence they didn't have to do a full lap under green like the #1 Audi did. Radio Le Mans was saying how that was unfair in their opinion.

Hindy was calling the incident. He was saying teams got penalized for pitting during the period after the safety car and asked why Audi didn't. Thats why I said it must have been because the puncture they didnt get penalized. Do you recall they said to wait for (at least 2 laps) before pitting?

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by TF110

Do you recall they said to wait for (at least 2 laps) before pitting?

Do you recall the #1 Audi consistently being at least half a second faster than the #7 Toyota per lap?

[Simmi]

Reading back through the thread after watching the race - what the hell happened in here?

I'm used to the usual bickering but it seemed like half the forum rose to it. I love sportscars but I genuinely can't see how people get so riled up about it.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Reading back through the thread after watching the race - what the hell happened in here?

I'm used to the usual bickering but it seemed like half the forum rose to it. I love sportscars but I genuinely can't see how people get so riled up about it.

Unfortunately some people get very territorial about the teams/cars they support.

[GT6]

Unfortunately the tribal attitude with respect to teams/cars/forms of motor racing is creeping in, a chap posted a entry on the F1 part of ten tenths saying that he is starting to like sports car racing, The moderator on that site posted an insulting reply and closed the tread, it shows the gradual decline in peoples attitude to anything apart from their own opinion

[CTD]

As said many times before by others. Ignoring the issue makers, and keep a sober tone in your own posts, are the only way to limit this development.
Thankfulle the moderators often stops the worst of the issue makers before they do serious damage. (and here I'm not talking about the incident you report, GT6, something I hope you have reported so force will be taken against that Mod!)

[gregtummer]

One member's reality doesn't quite match up to everyone else's reality.

That's all that we were pointing out.

[Simmi]

Can anyone answer a couple of things I couldn't find out via the coverage I saw.

Who was in the #35 Oak that shunted the Strakka? And who was in the #26 when it went into the wall? And was there any explanation about that one? Seemed like the car just veered off the track.

[Stefvh]

I think it was Rusinov, in the 26. That's what i think i heard at the track.

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by TF110

Hindy was calling the incident. He was saying teams got penalized for pitting during the period after the safety car and asked why Audi didn't. Thats why I said it must have been because the puncture they didnt get penalized. Do you recall they said to wait for (at least 2 laps) before pitting?

When the safety car came in the pit lane wasn't open until all the cars had passed pit entry.

The safety car came out on lap 29 and came back in on lap 32, and #1 pitted on lap 33.

#91, 97 & 98 got a penalty because they entered the pit lane before the last car had passed pit entry and did a full pit stop and not an emergency pit stop.