Historic forum photographs

[allenbrown]

Or do you mean a great long running abuse of copyright?

[grantp]

Given that the Circuits now claim Copyright to all shots and videos except for 'personal use' (see entrance tickets, usually) exactly how might one need to arrange a public or semi-public forum such as this one to allow individuals who may wish to share their images with others to do so without falling foul of some sort of unexpected invoice from afar?

What next? Local councils charging newspapers for image copyright on street scenes?

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Or do you mean a great long running abuse of copyright?

Delayed reaction, Allen? I can't really answer this as many were posted before my time. Since I have no intention of working through and asking the question regarding each one, it's all or nothing. Until someone complains (very belatedly) I suggest we would prefer that it is 'all'!

[SJ LAMBERT]

Originally Posted by DNQ

1989 Australian GP - red flagged for being too wet and dangerous after just 14 laps.

Yep, my brother turned blue whilst trackside at that one & we were raised on a solid diet of Symmons Plains "drench" in Tassie!

[Gerga]

Someone can say for me where was Coulthard's first McLaren test?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Lotus47

Wanted Lotus 47 photos please.
Salut

Here you go.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by grantp

Given that the Circuits now claim Copyright to all shots and videos except for 'personal use' (see entrance tickets, usually) exactly how might one need to arrange a public or semi-public forum such as this one to allow individuals who may wish to share their images with others to do so without falling foul of some sort of unexpected invoice from afar?

What next? Local councils charging newspapers for image copyright on street scenes?

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. I somehow don't think they are going to invoice everyone who shares a photo, it's just too many people to deal with.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. I somehow don't think they are going to invoice everyone who shares a photo, it's just too many people to deal with.

I tend to agree.

However one might take the same view for file sharing of, say, popular music. Such an activity, using tapes of one sort or another, pre-dates digital files and the internet and was dealt with, latterly, by a surcharge on every blank cassette tape sold.

Once that revenue stream dried up the music business decided to go after file sharers despite there being millions of them and many sharers being kids - just as in the days of cassette tapes.

Once a market becomes big enough and any sharing very public the potential for some form of cash grab looks more attractive and effort will likely be expended. The advent of digital cameras has produced both growth (users and nunber of images taken) and visibility. Geotagging in the Exif file would make location a simple search matter. Copyright info (or whatever) probably makes photographer ID easy often enough to justify writing a program that trawls the web. Raising an electronic invoice should not be at all time consuming and sending it via email not costly.

I understand there is already a program available that will trawl the 'net and report other images that match a sample provided to it. Intended for photographers to discover where their images may have been used, perhaps unauthorised, it could surely be adapted for other purposes.

Likewise 'Image rights'. Take a shot of a 'personality' and wait for their Image Rights management reps to trawl the web with a face recognition program and chase you for payment.

Of course I have no idea if such things WILL happen, but they certainly COULD happen.

On the other hand I would imagine that anything taken at, for example, Donington in the last couple of years is probably free of any copyright concerns from the track operation company ...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by grantp

Once a market becomes big enough and any sharing very public the potential for some form of cash grab looks more attractive and effort will likely be expended. The advent of digital cameras has produced both growth (users and nunber of images taken) and visibility. Geotagging in the Exif file would make location a simple search matter. Copyright info (or whatever) probably makes photographer ID easy often enough to justify writing a program that trawls the web. Raising an electronic invoice should not be at all time consuming and sending it via email not costly.

Your post brought out some interesting points. The only problem with geotagging is if people download images from internet cafés, then copy the file onto a memory stick, the proprietor of the internet café would then be liable for any fee. It's not easy to police and it also questions the future of image sharing sites like Photobucket and Flickr. Will they have to start charging?

[grantp]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Your post brought out some interesting points. The only problem with geotagging is if people download images from internet cafés, then copy the file onto a memory stick, the proprietor of the internet café would then be liable for any fee. It's not easy to police and it also questions the future of image sharing sites like Photobucket and Flickr. Will they have to start charging?

I was thinking more of geotagging in camera as the image is taken (and assuming that, often enough to make attempts at tracing worthwhile, the Exif info will not be deleted or otherwise edited/altered.)

That would mean that, at least in theory, one could trawl the web for photos with Exif data intact the taker's details included along with the camera serial number, etc., etc., filtering by co-ordinates, dates and times in which you, as an operator/promoter, have an interest. It's the photographer that be of interest in terms of 'issuing' unlicenced images. Chasing thousands of 'retail consumers', paying clients or not, would be nowhere near as practical, at least not yet.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by grantp

I understand there is already a program available that will trawl the 'net and report other images that match a sample provided to it. Intended for photographers to discover where their images may have been used, perhaps unauthorised, it could surely be adapted for other purposes.

www.tineye.com

I've tried and and found a few things knicked from my website.

[grantp]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

www.tineye.com

I've tried and and found a few things knicked from my website.

So the theory I put forward might be a runner at some point. Should be safe with shots from Donington over the last couple of seasons though since I would presume that no remnant of DVLL would be in the chasing pack!

Like all things it will only matter when someone finds a way to make the chase pay or, like the Music industry and Hollywood, feels threatened and wishes to make a point by penalising someone.

I'm not sure how that would apply in photographic image terms. I would guess that if you took a shot that became iconic and used commercially by millions of companies or individuals some sort of chase for rights revenue might be worthwhile. Or if you regularly take photos at a particular venue and have a small per photo commercial income from a lot of images, say an events company photographer, that might also appear to be a worhwhile proposition for a venue rights claimer to chase.

The aggravation factor could be huge even if the financial element was low.

All this is, so far, very theoretical of course. However it's worth keeping an eye on any news about how things might develop. There are plenty of businesses and industry organisation out there who are looking for easy ways to gain revenue without having to do anything more than pay a few lawyers to create specious claims.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by grantp

There are plenty of businesses and industry organisation out there who are looking for easy ways to gain revenue without having to do anything more than pay a few lawyers to create specious claims.

What ARE you saying!!! The very notion.....

[SJ LAMBERT]

G'day racing fxgt, don't suppose you can tell me about the specs of that Holbay Ford motor in the Red Rose Motors Chevron? We are looking to build a spare S65 Holbay engine............

[Steve66]

Just found this photo of a Lola race car belonging to a Peter Fulke Greville,Nottingham Sports Car Club and BRDC.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Steve66

Just found this photo of a Lola race car belonging to a Peter Fulke Greville,Nottingham Sports Car Club and BRDC.

that''ll be Chris's dad then?

[The Grey Ghost]

[bjohnsonsmith]

[The Grey Ghost]

[bjohnsonsmith]

Those are some great photos.

This is interesting.

[The Grey Ghost]

Couple more .....

[allenbrown]

Hey The Grey Ghost, can you please read the forum's policy on photographic copyright.

[The Grey Ghost]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Hey The Grey Ghost, can you please read the forum's policy on photographic copyright.

Gladly ..... can you point me to where it is please.

[Metroman]

Originally Posted by Andrew Kitson

Here is a photo of the Kincraft taken in 1968 at Snett with Jim Moore at the wheel. Now that IS a REAL racing car!
And yes to my friend in NZ, that is the same Stan Matthews in the F100 at Brands. thanks!

I may be a bit late and some-else may have responded previously but the Kincraft raced in Croft Libre events in the hands of Mike Rheinhart and then the Honorable Scott Moncrieff. What happened to it after that I would love to know.

[Steve66]

Originally Posted by Steve66

Just found this photo of a Lola race car belonging to a Peter Fulke Greville,Nottingham Sports Car Club and BRDC.

This was taken around the mid 1960s,I remember Peter Fulke Greville being important in the NSCC-Nottingham Sports Car Club,MROR-Motor Racing Officials Register and one of the founders of the BARC involved in starting Thruxton up around 1967,he paid for the tarmac to be laid on the circuit.
He was related to Scott Moncrieff and Montague as I use to see them at the Sherwood Rooms in Nottingham,friends included Mike Hawthorne,John Gott,Denny Hulme,Surtees,Moss and Graham Hill,real 60s heroes.
There was a sighn writer from Long Eaton named Len Taft who use to go round the various Paddocks hand painting logos on cars,you dont see that happen now especially with vinyls.