Andretti F1 - 2025

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Shoeless Joe Jackson was a strong character in "Field of Dreams" so the name is well-know outside the US due to the international success and standing of the film.

I'm a little surprised at Joe not having heard of a Philly Cheese Steak as it too gets a fair run of mentions in US films of one kind or another but to me, as a non-US resident, Shoeless Joe was a name that I knew and was strongly aware of, having really like the movie, long before I'd heard of a Philly Cheese Steak.

Agree that a Philly Cheese Steak can be OK but like everything in life, there are good and bad examples.

That really surprises me. I would have bet the house that a baseball movie made 30+ years ago would be pretty niche over there. I mean it's a good movie but cheesesteaks are pretty great.

However, an Italian beef sandwich in Chicago CRUSHES the best cheesesteak in the world.

Originally Posted by Greem

Yep. And airport catering outlets are a pretty good bet of getting the latter, whilst paying something approaching that for a Michelin star dish.

Yes! A Philly cheesesteak, at an airport, in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida. Not ideal. However, I guarantee there is a half-decent Cuban sandwich available there. You gotta do your sandwich research before travelling.


Sorry to keep taking the thread OT so - All this Andretti stuff is weird but I've never been an Andretti fan. I have no control over any of this and feel nothing.

[Tourer]

Pat Symonds joins Andretti as a consultant. He should help them to be ready for 2028 & in the meantime, should be able to assist them with saying the right things in their application to be successful.

[GTRMagic]

What are they actually doing at their Silverstone base?
There is no car to run, no developments to plot, no races to attend.. and won’t be for some time yet, if at all..
I’d suggest perhaps their biggest bill is for tea and biscuits?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

What are they actually doing at their Silverstone base?
There is no car to run, no developments to plot, no races to attend.. and won’t be for some time yet, if at all..
I’d suggest perhaps their biggest bill is for tea and biscuits?

Formula E?

[Alan52]

According to Joe Saward’s blog today the new Concorde Agreement will have a clause that new entrants in F1 must have competed in and won championships in F2 and F3.
They are determined to block Andretti/GM no matter what it takes.

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Alan52

According to Joe Saward’s blog today the new Concorde Agreement will have a clause that new entrants in F1 must have competed in and won championships in F2 and F3.
They are determined to block Andretti/GM no matter what it takes.

If true, then the closed shop mentality is beyond a joke now. This is not how F1 should be run.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

According to Joe Saward’s blog today the new Concorde Agreement will have a clause that new entrants in F1 must have competed in and won championships in F2 and F3.
They are determined to block Andretti/GM no matter what it takes.

It’s been a few years but they’ve won in Indycar, still competing of course. It’s a similar task to F2, so should be able to claim an equivalence.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Alan52

According to Joe Saward’s blog today the new Concorde Agreement will have a clause that new entrants in F1 must have competed in and won championships in F2 and F3.
They are determined to block Andretti/GM no matter what it takes.

However, if a (say) multi-billionaire turned up with a ready made race team and bottomless pockets, they would almost certainly be allowed to enter.

I wonder if the Andretti family have any links to the Dorilton Capital group?

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Tourer

It’s been a few years but they’ve won in Indycar, still competing of course. It’s a similar task to F2, so should be able to claim an equivalence.

That won’t work.There are reasons they specify series that they control if not run directly.

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by Greem

I wonder if the Andretti family have any links to the Dorilton Capital group?

or some money from the Emirates perhaps.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Alan52

According to Joe Saward’s blog today the new Concorde Agreement will have a clause that new entrants in F1 must have competed in and won championships in F2 and F3.
They are determined to block Andretti/GM no matter what it takes.

Joe has said this in his blog so there are some legs on it but no one actually knows what will be in the final accord because it's all talk and not yet in print.

Trying to claim equivalency is not likely to go anywhere with Indy NXT being at the level of a regional formula rather than F2.

but either way there seems to be a strong swing in motorsport generally leading to some very fixed pathways and procedures being made fixed steps in all single seater racing.
It's a long way already from the free world open-ended style of competition we had thirty or forty years ago.

By 2030 or earlier I think F1 will simply be a form of public entertainment, a series of 'events' run around the glop under the title of F1 (or maybe abandon the FIA and simply call it Grand Prix) where a group of select people run teams for the event and it is televised to people living in cities around the globe as one of a selection of events run from a central administration to entertain the masses.
That might be six years or more away but it is entirely consistent with the agenda toward sustainability, so watch where the world goes to from here.

[chillibowl]

That’s an interesting future…maybe even add an element with the top teams ultimately meeting up for some sort champions league set of race to cap off the season?

Would be different for sure but an intriguing idea. The commercial benefits are clearly there.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Greem

However, if a (say) multi-billionaire turned up with a ready made race team and bottomless pockets, they would almost certainly be allowed to enter.

I wonder if the Andretti family have any links to the Dorilton Capital group?

They would tell him to buy a team.This is all about keeping it at 10 teams.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

By 2030 or earlier I think F1 will simply be a form of public entertainment, a series of 'events' run around the glop under the title of F1 (or maybe abandon the FIA and simply call it Grand Prix) where a group of select people run teams for the event and it is televised to people living in cities around the globe as one of a selection of events run from a central administration to entertain the masses.
That might be six years or more away but it is entirely consistent with the agenda toward sustainability, so watch where the world goes to from here.

There is already something similar, not in racing cars, but in what used to be the Red Bull sponsored "racing" planes that performs around the world.

[Tourer]

More from Autosport re the signing of Pat Symonds by Andretti. It's in the "Plus" section of the site so in case you can't access it, I've inserted here (hope that's OK):

The wider significance of Andretti’s Symonds signing
OPINION: Andretti’s signing of Pat Symonds is the latest major move of its plan to join the Formula 1 grid. While engineering and rules knowhow is a given, there are more routes that he can help the American squad down to overturn its recent rejection by the championship’s chiefs

Jonathan NobleMay 23, 2024, 5:33 PM

They say a wounded animal is the most dangerous in the world. And ever since Andretti Global’s hopes of entering Formula 1 were bloodied back in January when Liberty Media rejected its bid to get on the grid, it has been aggressive in defending itself. Rather than quietly accept F1’s rejection and call time on its ambitions, it has been fighting back in an ever-stronger manner to achieve its dream.

It has been working on new facilities, having opened a new 40,000-square foot building at Silverstone which is home to its design office and aero department. The organisation will also eventually take over an adjacent 70,000-square foot building.

Andretti has been calling on United States politicians to fight its cause too. Visits to Capitol Hill have helped encourage senators to start challenging F1’s rejection of Andretti as a potential breach of anti-competition law.

Beyond all that, Andretti has been on a massive recruitment drive as well to continue preparing its 2026 challenger. But this week marked a next level move when, just hours after it emerged F1’s chief technical officer Pat Symonds was leaving his role, Andretti put out a press release revealing it was bringing him on board.

In purely technical terms, it would be wrong to say that this is a game-changing moment akin to one of the current competitors getting hold of Adrian Newey. Symonds hasn’t been involved in the competitive side of things since he left Williams at the end of 2016.

Since then, his CTO role at F1 has been about framing and delivering regulations that Liberty Media wanted to deliver to help improve the show. This included the cost cap, the arrival of the 2022 ground effect era and, most recently, the completion of the 2026 chassis and power unit regulations that will marks perhaps the biggest rules revamp that F1 has ever witnessed.

It had long been anticipated that the signing off of the 2026 rules, which are due to be published at the start of next month, would be the perfect moment for Symonds, who is approaching his 71st birthday, to move on.

His involvement in the regulatory environment, rather than a competitive one working for a team, means he will not be as on top of the performance characteristics of the current cars as someone who has been working hard on them for one of the entrants.

However, the real significance of Symonds’ capture is the political aspect of it. He has moved from the organisation that has emerged as the road block to Andretti’s aspirations and is now the one trying to help it push on through. It is a proper gamekeeper turned poacher moment.

Symonds will arrive with a wealth of knowledge about what’s been going on behind the scenes at F1, and what he thinks is needed to get the entry across the line. F1 has not issued any official comment on the matter, but the fact that Symonds has been put on gardening leave makes clear that the situation is not all rosy.

Symonds’ role is to ensure Andretti’s ‘quality’ is good enough to convince F1 to change its mind. He will know the boxes that need to be ticked, the people that need to be contacted and the back doors that can be accessed

In referencing the arrival of Symonds, team CEO Michael Andretti was keen to point out beyond the technical knowledge his new employee has, there was a significance to him having come from F1.

“I believe his expertise has been pivotal in shaping the narrative of Formula 1 and his vote of confidence in joining our effort speaks volumes,” he said. “I’m really happy with this next step as our work continues at pace.”

In his role at F1, Symonds will have had intimate knowledge of the decision-making process regarding the new team entries, and especially the motivations and factors that were taking place behind closed doors. While he never publicly commented on the Andretti situation while at F1, it was less than two years ago that Symonds spoke about the potential for new teams on stage at Autosport International.

Asked about possible expansion of the grid, he said: “I will welcome new teams. We are just perfectly well with 20 cars, but there is no harm in having more cars, providing their quality. We don’t want to get back to seeing the HRT thing of 2011 or whenever it was, but you know the sport is a pedigree success story.”

Symonds’ role now is to ensure that Andretti’s ‘quality’ is good enough to convince F1 to change its mind. He will fully know the boxes that need to be ticked, the people that need to be contacted and the back doors that can be accessed to help gain entry to the exclusive F1 club.

When F1 rejected Andretti’s application back in January, it was adamant that it did not believe the American squad had the capability to be competitive. One of the lead explanations for its thought process was: “The most significant way in which a new entrant would bring value is by being competitive. We do not believe that the Applicant would be a competitive participant.”

Despite all the stirring of the pot by Andretti, F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali has long remained steadfast that the decision made back in January was the right thing. Speaking earlier this year, he said: “With regard to what has happened [with Andretti Cadillac], I think that the process has been followed, and we presented the result in the right way. For the future it's a matter of discussion, of course, with the teams, with the right commercial and technical proposition that will be discussed accordingly, within this year.”

But, with Symonds now committed to Andretti, F1 will have one of its own key figures out to prove its initial assessment was wrong.

[Alan52]

Reported today on Speedcafe that the CEO of Liberty told Mario in Miami that he would do “whatever it takes” to keep Andretti out of F1.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Reported today on Speedcafe that the CEO of Liberty told Mario in Miami that he would do “whatever it takes” to keep Andretti out of F1.

Speedcafe article here with claim from Mario and also quote from another party that what Mario claims wasn't said at all.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Reported today on Speedcafe that the CEO of Liberty told Mario in Miami that he would do “whatever it takes” to keep Andretti out of F1.

If true, hat would not surprise me.
Bernie said long ago that ten teams were enough and when you have a grid that is covered by about two seconds and a top ten covered by less than a second you have ten 'competitive' teams.

The rest can be all hype, glitz, and glamour, and the rest of the proletariat will soak it all up completely unaware of where it came from, its history, relevance, and background. None of that matters if you are taught to live in the moment, forget the past, and that only the present is relevant and real.

You only have to watch like a fly on the wall at Davos to understand the extremes people, who have money and the control it can bring at their fingertips, will go to shape their brave new world and take people to where the rich want them to be and dance to their pipe. Liberty is no different to BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street Global, UBS, Fidelity, Allianz etc. Its smaller but its influence and place in the landscape of influence is persuasive.

Since Liberty came in and Bernie left the shop F1 has been grabbed with both hands by people who understood the amount of power it had to be used as a tool on the stage of mass global entertainment.
Bernie and his band of enthusiasts had taken it as far as it could go in their hands, but that doesn't mean where it goes now is an improvement or for the better of the sport or the people who work in it.

And if you doubt my thinking on trends in F1 to a closed shop group who simply run a global entertainment business is extreme, then look at WEC which is currently operated by the ACO rather than the FIA, and IndyCar which is owned and effectively operated by Penske entertainment.

IndyCar will operate with 25 charters to the existing teams, 5 of which will have three charters and five will have two charters. They will be guaranteed a starting spot regardless of competitiveness and only those 25 charters are entitled to the end of season split of series profits.

WEC has a limited field, now restricted to 9 teams of GT3, representing 9 different manufacturers plus about 20 entrants to the Hyperclass, and rumor has it that in future each of the teams will be required to front up with two entries, so single entries and one-off private entries will disappear.

International motorsport is disappearing up the derriere of people who love to control and command how people should behave and how the rest of people simply need to accept and conform to their way of thinking, because 'they' know what things are best and how things should be done.

And the rest of us should just shut up, conform to their precepts and accept it as a 'fait accompli'.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Speedcafe article here with claim from Mario and also quote from another party that what Mario claims wasn't said at all.

Who knows what was really said. I can however believe that if what Mario said was true, that Liberty is not going to confirm it! Nothing helps those anti-trust collusion concerns like telling someone they will block their entry at all costs!

In the end both denials and accusations are both just talk. But the problem is for Liberty, is that many are likely to believe Mario's story.

I like that Andretti is putting up the good fight. I still think it's a long shot that anything will come of it.

Richard

[GTRMagic]

Maybe all these AndrettiGlobal F1 bods could rock on over to the Indy program…
Judging by 1 car in the lead group and one only just surviving Bump Day.. there may be something to discover there

[P38 in workshop]

I have enormous respect and admiration for the achievements of Mario Andretti and in a slightly different field,the business acumen that Michael has used to grow the group.I can't help feeling that the American political muscle gathering behind their potential entry could give Liberty a very hard time.In a parallel thread there is mention of the flock of Spanish sponsors that might accompany Carlos Sainz to a future team and I would think there must be a real fear that the pull of the mighty Andretti name would have a similar effect on American sponsors.I really hope they are allowed to compete and show us what they can do.


For now there seems to be a kind of limbo perhaps somewhere between the Ikazawa and US F1 operations and I have to hope no toasters are under development.

[Alan52]

The Live Nation/Ticketmaster arm of Liberty is facing an anti trust case from the US Justice Department.They have been a immoral monopolist for decades in the US.
Liberty might find themselves under siege on several fronts.
Moral-Never annoy Taylor Swift fans.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Maybe all these AndrettiGlobal F1 bods could rock on over to the Indy program…
Judging by 1 car in the lead group and one only just surviving Bump Day.. there may be something to discover there

Qualifying at Indy is radically different from Carb Day and while Chevy (Illmor built and owned by Penske) dominated the front end of qualifying the reverse was true on Carb Day which is setting the cars up for 500 miles....

Honda engines filled seven or eight of the first ten places.....
It won't be over until the 200 laps are complete.

[Tourer]

FIA President now thinks that the best path for Andretti would be to buy an existing team. The Pres now says that quality is more important than quantity. Maybe Ben should have given that some thought before he opened up the application process?

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Tourer

FIA President now thinks that the best path for Andretti would be to buy an existing team. The Pres now says that quality is more important than quantity. Maybe Ben should have given that some thought before he opened up the application process?

No.
The regulations allow for 26 cars and for the commercial rights holder to limit the number of participating teams to 10 rather than 13 is contradictory to developing the sport as the rules are outlaid in the regulations.
Ben did the right thing.