[iV8SC15R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000: 8-11 Oct (WITH POLL)

[Umai Naa]

I never actually saw the #7 car in all the footage shown, but if they had in fact turned off the green light as #1 was approaching, why were they still dawdling along the side of the track?

I'd have thought that once the #7 car had been waved through, they would move to the middle of the track at the 80km/h, or whatever it is, and lead the #1 as per normal.

Seemed as though at some point, he did in fact see the green light, the safety car remained on the right-hand side of the track at low speed, and assumed that they were letting him through as well. The more I see of it, the more I'm willing to apportion the blame close to 50/50, between #1 and the operation of the safety car. He'd already baulked at the sight of the medical car on the front straight, and did the same with the safety car on Mountain Straight. Perhaps he was waiting for the bit where it speeds up, and slots in, in front of him? It's not the first time they've stuffed it up.

The other thing too, is that if the purpose of the safety car is to control the speed of the competing vehicles, why wasn't there some sort of intervention from race control to the team, to say "Hey, he's meant to be BEHIND the safety car. He needs to slow down, and re-address."? Surely there'd have been sufficient time and space to do that, as opposed to allowing another car to go full-tilt past an accident?

I can't help but feel there's more to the story here.

[rich07]

I'd like to see one wheel gun at a time rather then all four like in sports car racing (one guy with the gun and another carrying the tires), it's slower but it's great to watch especially if you have two guys who are on top of their game.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by rich07

I'd like to see one wheel gun at a time rather then all four like in sports car racing (one guy with the gun and another carrying the tires), it's slower but it's great to watch especially if you have two guys who are on top of their game.

Wouldn't happen as V8's see that as unsafe. They used to use two rattle guns only but too many accidents killed that off.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

I never actually saw the #7 car in all the footage shown, but if they had in fact turned off the green light as #1 was approaching, why were they still dawdling along the side of the track?

I'd have thought that once the #7 car had been waved through, they would move to the middle of the track at the 80km/h, or whatever it is, and lead the #1 as per normal.

Seemed as though at some point, he did in fact see the green light, the safety car remained on the right-hand side of the track at low speed, and assumed that they were letting him through as well. The more I see of it, the more I'm willing to apportion the blame close to 50/50, between #1 and the operation of the safety car. He'd already baulked at the sight of the medical car on the front straight, and did the same with the safety car on Mountain Straight. Perhaps he was waiting for the bit where it speeds up, and slots in, in front of him? It's not the first time they've stuffed it up.

I'd suggest that driving to the side of the track (or off the racing line) is safe practice, in case some lunatic driver decides to push on to get back to pits and doesn't see (or have time to slow down) in time. Go to YouTube and search safety car crashes and most of the time its because the SC is dawdling around on the racing line and a driver belts through like a tool.

[Average Punter]

Just back from The Mountain.

Sitting on Hell Corner on Sunday, I noticed that EVERY time the Safety Car was deployed it travelled up Mountain Straight and stopped at the crest of the hill with lights flashing, and waited for the field.

How come after the Pye crash it went over the blind crest??? And kept moving???

Even though Jamie must have seen the SC boards and flags, it was not sitting in the usual position.

Maybe Whincup was passed it almost before he saw it?

Would love to see his throttle trace....

[JAFA851]

You can make all the excuses you like for JW, but after EVERYONE peeled off to the pits, he would have known he was in the lead of the race, and if after all his years of top level racing he doesn't know that the safety car picks up the race leader, then maybe he's not as great as everyone think he is? There's no rule about where the safety car picks up the leader or which side of the track they drive on, they're just bullsh*t excuses for someone who straight-out screwed up, big time, for the second time in a row, in the biggest race of the year.

[rich07]

Originally Posted by Razor

Wouldn't happen as V8's see that as unsafe. They used to use two rattle guns only but too many accidents killed that off.

My memory isn't that good, what type of accidents are we talking about here?

[Umai Naa]

Originally Posted by JAFA851

You can make all the excuses you like for JW, but after EVERYONE peeled off to the pits, he would have known he was in the lead of the race, and if after all his years of top level racing he doesn't know that the safety car picks up the race leader, then maybe he's not as great as everyone think he is? There's no rule about where the safety car picks up the leader or which side of the track they drive on, they're just bullsh*t excuses for someone who straight-out screwed up, big time, for the second time in a row, in the biggest race of the year.

So its still entirely his fault, even if there was potentially an operations error with the safety car?

No one is making excuses for him here, but a safety car error does appear to have contributed to his troubles.

[chavez]

Possibly. The safety car did seem to be strangely positioned on Mountain Straight.

But I'm not aware of any circumstances that would have allowed Jamie to successfully achieve what he was trying to attempt.

Being the race leader he was bound to be picked up by the safety car.

Perhaps by staying out he was hoping that there would be some confusion as to who was the race leader and be saved by the safety car.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by chavez

Possibly. The safety car did seem to be strangely positioned on Mountain Straight.

But I'm not aware of any circumstances that would have allowed Jamie to successfully achieve what he was trying to attempt.

Being the race leader he was bound to be picked up by the safety car.

Perhaps by staying out he was hoping that there would be some confusion as to who was the race leader and be saved by the safety car.

He already explained this. He thought the team made a mistake and called CL in instead of him. The call on the radio was 'pit next lap' but the protocol they had was 'safety car, pit next lap'. If he had heard the SC part, he would have pitted. He only saw the SC board once he was past pit in.

I also thought it was wierd where the safety car was, and the footage doesn't show further back if there was a green light or not. I'm sure if the bullshit car was in the middle of the track, he would never have passed it!

[Umai Naa]

Yeah, the story goes he was unaware that there was a safety car at the time the team instructed him to simply "pit now".

[Average Punter]

Realistically JW was absolutely in the box seat at that stage. He was running 4th but needing shorter fuel than the 3 in front of him.

That final Safety Car screwed their day no matter how you look at it. Stay in, stay out, stack, pass the Safety Car, it wasn't going to matter, their day was done....

[Reload]

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

He already explained this. He thought the team made a mistake and called CL in instead of him. The call on the radio was 'pit next lap' but the protocol they had was 'safety car, pit next lap'. If he had heard the SC part, he would have pitted. He only saw the SC board once he was past pit in.

I also thought it was wierd where the safety car was, and the footage doesn't show further back if there was a green light or not. I'm sure if the bullshit car was in the middle of the track, he would never have passed it!

I thought that in an interview that JW did, that he said that he didn't want to stack behind Lowndes when called in ?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Reload

I thought that in an interview that JW did, that he said that he didn't want to stack behind Lowndes when called in ?

He hadn't been told there was a SC, the radio call to him didn't follow their normal protocol.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by Reload

I thought that in an interview that JW did, that he said that he didn't want to stack behind Lowndes when called in ?

Correct, he didn't want to stack behind CL under green (which is what it was at the time). If he knew it was a safety car, he would have stacked.

[woodduck]

I don't know about anyone else... But I am well over this double stacking business. It is a lottery most of the time.

I am sure that if the collective boffins put their heads together, surely there could be a way that could be put forward that each CAR has their own pit boom, as opposed to two cars sharing a boom and then raffling who uses it.

That way we wouldn't have the results of genuine contests distorted because of stacking. Back in the early V8SC days each car had their own boom, even if it was a bit crowded - must be better than having cars stationary in the lane waiting for the team car to get filled and dispatched.

[Umai Naa]

At some tracks, it's already tight having 13 cars in the lane, let alone 26.

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by woodduck

I don't know about anyone else... But I am well over this double stacking business. It is a lottery most of the time.

I am sure that if the collective boffins put their heads together, surely there could be a way that could be put forward that each CAR has their own pit boom, as opposed to two cars sharing a boom and then raffling who uses it.

That way we wouldn't have the results of genuine contests distorted because of stacking. Back in the early V8SC days each car had their own boom, even if it was a bit crowded - must be better than having cars stationary in the lane waiting for the team car to get filled and dispatched.

Yep I m over it too. SvG got shafted to and had to stack and it cost them big time and they never recovered from it. What makes it worse was the DJRTP car he had to stack behind, broke later in the day and didn't finish!!!

The biggest race of the year shouldn't be decided on who gets to the pits first. If some other tracks don't have room for each car to have their own boom, don't have pitstop races at those tracks. Simples.

[Reload]

No better example of the stacking debacle than watching Webby"s kamikaze move on the #17 at the Chase in order to not have to lose out in that department.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Average Punter

Realistically JW was absolutely in the box seat at that stage. He was running 4th but needing shorter fuel than the 3 in front of him.

According to the commentators it was Lowndes who needed the least amount of fuel at the last stop, Whincup needed more.

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

At some tracks, it's already tight having 13 cars in the lane, let alone 26.

Plenty of room at Bathurst though. Our biggest race shouldn't be hamstrung by rules applied to other events

[bluesport]

I don't see it being a problem when commodores get caught by double stacking in pit-lane, it's a good thing because there is too many of them in the races.

[mikuni]

Double stacking is fine. The lead car from each team gets preference. How fair is that! A genuine incentive to be in front.

[Umai Naa]

Meanwhile, this pops up on a Ford-flavoured Facebook page...

[Mixer]

Of course it does.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Meanwhile, this pops up on a Ford-flavoured Facebook page...

Ford flavoured or not, to me its a pretty clear breach of the rules that went unpunished...