2024 Season - News and Rumours

[Rusty Nail]

Well I think it's up to DR to provide some consistent solid results over the next five race weekends if he's going to have a hope of hanging on to his seat.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Rusty Nail

Well I think it's up to DR to provide some consistent solid results over the next five race weekends if he's going to have a hope of hanging on to his seat.

Indeed. He's obviously on borrowed time.

[bathurst77]

As much as I like DR (being aussie and all) I think his best days are bbehind him. Sure with right car right day he can turn up the odd good result, but there are plenty of young drivers who deserve their chance. HE has had a go, shown he was good not great, so let someone else have a crack now.

[flatlandsman]

Apparently Silverstone are not going to sell out, cmon guys help them make more money than they really need! They HAVE to pay for Kings of Leon this year, that must be worth 4 quid for three days surely but dont forget it costs even more to park!

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Apparently Silverstone are not going to sell out, cmon guys help them make more money than they really need! They HAVE to pay for Kings of Leon this year, that must be worth 4 quid for three days surely but dont forget it costs even more to park!

Based on what the head of silverstone at the time said a good few years ago (probably at the tail end of the Bernie era), F1 charges so much in fees that they don't make any money on the grand prix, but that's F1's business model all over, you run the grand prix at a loss and the "prestige" of being the venue that hosts the grand prix means you can raise your prices for all the other events you host.

So them not having a sellout could well be a problem for them, and we'll all probably suffer as a result

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Apparently Silverstone are not going to sell out, cmon guys help them make more money than they really need! They HAVE to pay for Kings of Leon this year, that must be worth 4 quid for three days surely but dont forget it costs even more to park!

Circuits making money out of running a F1 race hasn’t happened for more than a generation.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

Apparently Silverstone are not going to sell out, cmon guys help them make more money than they really need! They HAVE to pay for Kings of Leon this year, that must be worth 4 quid for three days surely but dont forget it costs even more to park!

If the ticket prices are unreasonable, why not go to a TCR UK meeting instead? They have nice supports like Civic Cup IIRC. £20 will get you in the gate at Snetterton, £16 seniors and £12 under-15s.

[flatlandsman]

Silverstone I gather actually get a very cheap deal compared to most, I think on last release their deal costs 25 mill a year, very few cheaper, Compare that to Saudi and Bahrain that pay over 60.

And frankly if you can't make money on praps 200k people paying over 300 quid a ticket, that is 60 million before you start on food, clothing, programmes, etc etc. OK there are huge outlays but if you are not making a profit from a clear income of over 60 million when your biggest outlay is 25 mill hosting fee, they deserve to struggle!!

All the other races clearly must be making a loss, I know they are funded differently, but it is clear Silverstone have put ALL their eggs in the F1 hat recently and they must be making plenty of cash as Pringle the wally, when talking about this lack of sales told everyone they just spent 12 million on a kart track that will make them very little money even long term!!

[Peter Mallett]

Can't compare Suadi and Bahrain to Silverstone since the first two are government funded thus a totally different business model. Spa has local government support, as do Monza and Imola.

Frankly I find this constant carping about the costs of Silverstone tickets tedius in the extreme. If you don't want to pay then fine. Those who do pay enjoy the experience. The issue for me is not Silverstone, it's the package and I'd be interested to see if attendances are dropping as a result of the interminable schedule.

[Greem]

Having just read a few articles based off of Pringle's interview, it's clear that it's not just Silverstone that's had trouble with ticket sales, other circuits have also this year.

When the economy is tanking and people don't have the cash to spare on frivolities like F1, they won't buy tickets. There's a lot of competition for bums on grandstand seats this year too, with Euro 2024 and the Paris Olympics to come. Several people I know who would normally go to Silverstone for the Grand Prix have gone to Germany for the football instead and some others are going to the Olympics rather than the F1.

I agree with Peter though on the Silverstone bashing.

[Mike Harte]

One must give flatlandsman a little bit of latitude as I don't believe that he has been able to post a positive comment during his comparatively short time here. I often feel that all his posts are intended to "flame", I think the term is.

[flatlandsman]

It is not bashing for the sake of it, if you price an event with very high ticket prices, eventually that will filter down. It has also happened with MotoGP combined in the UK with the loss of Rossi, huge downturn in attendance. You have to expect a reaction.

There are numerous reasons for this problem, but pricing is one of them, the racing is poor, it is predictable, this all adds into the equation when you then add in the cost, other F1 events are much cheaper. And as others have said several things are competing for that extra money this year.

It is clear hundreds of thousands of people are prepared to pay it, so it is hardly bashing is it when the proof is in the last few years worth of massive profits from huge ticket sales, however when things go off a bit it becomes bashing! Because they have simply expected sales to continue without realising that there might be a reaction for numerous reasons, releasing something a few weeks before the race is very late, surely it would better to do this in early May?

I would never pay this for any event, but I am in the MASSIVE minority I have said that consistently. But if they are struggling for sales I am not surprised, there is a cost of living crisis, a lot of people who go there are not remotely interested as most of us are in watching racing of any other kind, they just go here once a year, and if the prices have remained high, and the racing is dull, and dominated by one man, people will vote with their wallet.

F1 is a bubble, and maybe the bubble is bursting.

[Mike Harte]

As BRDC, the owners of Silverstone, made a total loss of a £1/4 million for the 2021 financial year and a loss of just over a million for 2022, I would humbly suggest that they cannot afford to lower prices, no matter what a "fantastic" cut price deal they have for privilege of hosting the British GP.

It's bad enough how much entrants at other events have to pay for the same privilege of racing there, but I would hazard an educated guess that if Silverstone ceased to host the GP, then the UK would be yet another casualty of F1's constantly rising hosting fees. Just like France, Germany and, seemingly, other European venues.

[flatlandsman]

There are a couple of things there, one thing is that presumably Silverstone and BRDC are two separate things and they live together for some events like the GP, so all the BRDC really have to do is pay the host fee, which as discussed is very much lower than other similar European venues in comparison a deal well done after the last escalating fee fiasco. And the gate money maybe pays for most of that?

Also, do the club also pay the host fee for MotoGP, and if they are so broke how come they spent over 10 million quid on a kart track or has that been spent by the venue? I would imagine that just because the club are not making money, the venue might well be as they are separate things?

You make a good point that some places simply prefer not to run F1 Germany being a case in point, with plenty of reasons why they might get a crowd the fees are simply too much.

[Mike Harte]

No ,the BRDC are the actual owners and operators of Silverstone. The only reason that their losses are as "small" as they are is because they have either sold or leased large parts of the land that surrounds the circuit which has and continues to bring in income. They also employ professionals to run the business side, both the commercial and the racing elements, although members of the club sit on the board while major decisions, as opposed to "trivial" day to day matters, are voted on by the members.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

As BRDC, the owners of Silverstone, made a total loss of a £1/4 million for the 2021 financial year and a loss of just over a million for 2022, I would humbly suggest that they cannot afford to lower prices, no matter what a "fantastic" cut price deal they have for privilege of hosting the British GP.

The Victorian Government covers the loss of the Australian Grand Prix Corporation of approximately $12m AUD each year. This loss is mainly due to Formula One's high sanctioning fee.

By how much does the British Government subsidise BRDC's British Grand Prix? If not at all, that would explain why ticket prices are higher than for the Australian Grand Prix.

Of course it would be good if Formula One Management did not charge such outrageous sanctioning fees, thereby not relying on Government-funded races, but it is what it is. IIRC, 45-60% of that flows back to the constructors though the form of prize money. This is where constructors' FOM payments of anywhere up to $100m+ USD (for Ferrari with historic bonus payment) comes from!

Rounds like Monaco and Imola already have the lowest sanctioning fees, Silverstone & Melbourne somewhere in the middle, and Saudi Arabia, Baku, Abu Dhabi etc the highest fees.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

By how much does the British Government subsidise BRDC's British Grand Prix?

Zip. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Nowt. Nothing.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

By how much does the British Government subsidise BRDC's British Grand Prix? If not at all, that would explain why ticket prices are higher than for the Australian Grand Prix.

I believe that the only financial contribution made towards that British GP in it's history that I can recall is that the local/regional authority made the main road, the A43 that runs alongside Silverstone and connects two motorways - the M1 and the M40 - into a dual carriageway. And even with that, it can still take hours to get to the M1 after the GP, a distance of around 15 miles.

[Sodemo]

I think I’d rather Silverstone ditch the F1 GP in order to save itself from future debts. Is the sole reason for making a loss the hosting fee for thr F1 event?

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think I’d rather Silverstone ditch the F1 GP in order to save itself from future debts. Is the sole reason for making a loss the hosting fee for thr F1 event?

I hope that never happens. The atmosphere at Silverstone is so much better than many of the blander newer venues we’ve ended up with

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think I’d rather Silverstone ditch the F1 GP in order to save itself from future debts. Is the sole reason for making a loss the hosting fee for thr F1 event?

As far as I have previously tried to determine, it appears in published accounts that it's income and expenditure for the GP is not separated from other activities. This means that that information is not available to the public; I would assume/imagine that BRDC members would be privy to those details.

[cardriver]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

As much as I like DR (being aussie and all) I think his best days are bbehind him. Sure with right car right day he can turn up the odd good result, but there are plenty of young drivers who deserve their chance. HE has had a go, shown he was good not great, so let someone else have a crack now.

In general, you are right, but I think, that he was simply given another chance to prove himself

[flatlandsman]

I think as Mike says the club own and run the place effectively passing over the running to a company(ies) that does all the admin and organising, of which Pringle is the MD.

I say again they MUST be making money regardless of the losses you intimate Mike as they have paid out a small fortune this year for a kart track at Bridge, I doubt this is paid for with sponsors etc it has to come from income/profit, so whether this is club money or money raised by another part of the venue's revenue stream I am not sure, I would expect there are multiple companies probably more than 10 linked to the place for corporate, events, hotels, PR all with subtly different company names. MSV are similar they have multiple different companies all under the MSV banner, thereby if one goes balls up they can just close it. Same here I would imagine.

When you think about all the ways Silverstone can make money if they really do lose millions a year I doubt it, or they would have gone under a long time ago when Bernie nearly pulled the plug, we are just not privvy to the finances.

[ChrisA]

Originally Posted by flatlandsman

I think as Mike says the club own and run the place effectively passing over the running to a company(ies) that does all the admin and organising, of which Pringle is the MD.

I say again they MUST be making money regardless of the losses you intimate Mike as they have paid out a small fortune this year for a kart track at Bridge, I doubt this is paid for with sponsors etc it has to come from income/profit, so whether this is club money or money raised by another part of the venue's revenue stream I am not sure, I would expect there are multiple companies probably more than 10 linked to the place for corporate, events, hotels, PR all with subtly different company names. MSV are similar they have multiple different companies all under the MSV banner, thereby if one goes balls up they can just close it. Same here I would imagine.

When you think about all the ways Silverstone can make money if they really do lose millions a year I doubt it, or they would have gone under a long time ago when Bernie nearly pulled the plug, we are just not privvy to the finances.

It's amazing that this comes up every year when the GP is imminent. If Silverstone couldn't afford to run it, then I think it would have gone long ago. It's Britains premier race, so why knock it. I've been a supporter of Silverstone and the GP for many years. There, I have had my say.

[flatlandsman]

I think when you send out a statement moaning about Max domination hurting ticket sales with the prices you charge you are bound to attract criticism during the current economic climate.

In their defence, this is capitalism, it sells out most years regardless of cost, so why not try and cream a bit more from the top? That is just business. And the only people you can blame for that is fans sadly. You have a product people want, you put a demand on it, Anyone remember Prime energy drinks, genius marketing really!