The Current State of IndyCar

[wnut]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Having said that, there were major differences between the Chevy and Honda engines when the DW12 was launched. Chevy used a twin turbo while Honda a single turbo. Honda are now using a twin turbo engine, though it's not quite there compared to Chevy's, which would suggest a difference in the two designs.

Anybody who thinks that a single turbo installation on a V6 engine is preferable in a high performance application to twin turbos clearly has no understanding of how turbos work!

The problem with F1 currently is there is only one engine in the field, the works Mercedes spec engine, the other customer specification Mercedes engines are second rate in comparison, and everything else is worse.

[Deleted]

Even if they are near spec, at least F1 isn't performance balancing the factors at play. Before the ICS aero kits (which itself are another thing), when the engines were the only non spec parts, it was funny to have them controlling all aspects of them make em dead equal, and thus kinda pointless

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Even if they are near spec, at least F1 isn't performance balancing the factors at play. Before the ICS aero kits (which itself are another thing), when the engines were the only non spec parts, it was funny to have them controlling all aspects of them make em dead equal, and thus kinda pointless

I don't think it was a question of controlling all aspects of them and make em dead equal. Honda clearly had an inferior engine to Chevrolet and needed to do something about it. Having said that, Honda powered DW12s won Indy in 2012 and 2014, no mean feat.

[Deleted]

How much help did Judd-Lotus receive... you know the one that was trash and in actual need of something, not least from safety perspective which many deemed dangerous at the speedway... yeah exactly. Lack of OEM Power towards the organizing unit makes all the difference in the world...

Honda had the power.

[bjohnsonsmith]

This link

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/heres-ho...195807034.html

was included in a post by Duff on the "[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?" thread on the F1 section. The article isn't about closed cockpits, though the subject is included but it's about an alternative to the current approach to race car design. It's well worth a read.

[The Snout]

God, haven't been in this forum for nearly a decade. I see all the old posters, Dov, Macdaddy, Jay etc have all disappeared.

After being a big Indycar fan and visiting this forum daily back a decade ago I haven't really followed Indycar since.

Most the venues seem to have no tradition behind them, the calendar changes a lot. Ovals seem to be flatout.

I watched the 1988 Indy 500 recently and it was interesting how drivers in the early stages weren't passing much, they had to feel their car out and see what they could do with it.

I have watch a few laps of the recent 500s and it seems flatout all around and drafting.

Indycar would do well to go back to tradition and skill. Having some innovation on the car specs and chassis side. It's become too 'Monster Truck' as I saw someone say.

Maybe I'm just too old and priorities have changed, but I don't see myself being absorbed in Indycar again soon until it grows a soul again.

Just IMO. But I hope they have a safe season and you enjoy your racing.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Most the venues seem to have no tradition behind them, the calendar changes a lot. Ovals seem to be flatout.
.

With the aero packages since 2012 I would suggest less ovals than ever (post 2002) are flat out

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Maybe I'm just too old and priorities have changed, but I don't see myself being absorbed in Indycar again soon until it grows a soul again.

I can;t disagree more. IndyCar is the most entertaining car racing championship. There's plenty of action throughout the race. Anyone can win on a lucky day. And talent is rewarded.

Originally Posted by The Snout

Most the venues seem to have no tradition behind them, the calendar changes a lot.

It's true that venues rotate too much. I'm missing Milwaukee, New Hampshire, Richmond, Fontana, Kentucky, Pocono, Watkins Glen, Baltimore, Houston, Mexico, Brazil...

But no current track is forgettable.

Originally Posted by The Snout

I have watch a few laps of the recent 500s and it seems flatout all around and drafting.

Indianapolis isn't exactly flatout, therefore you often see spinouts.

But other ovals are indeed flatout, which is a shame. More power and less wings would be better.

Originally Posted by The Snout

Having some innovation on the car specs and chassis side. It's become too 'Monster Truck' as I saw someone say.

I'm not concerned about tech development. IndyCar are fast and hard to drive, and that's what matters.

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

It's true that venues rotate too much. I'm missing Milwaukee, New Hampshire, Richmond, Fontana, Kentucky, Pocono, Watkins Glen, Baltimore, Houston, Mexico, Brazil...

But no current track is forgettable.

Well, NaBUru38, Pocono is indeed on this year's schedule.

However, not having Milwaukee is a glaring omission. Kentucky would be a good addition, too, but the track's executives seem to think different. Baltimore always provided great racing. Brazil was a success with the fans until IndyCar tried to move it away from Sao Paulo. Instead, they should have tried to move the race to Interlagos. If they could manage that, it would be a blast! Mexico would be the proverbial no-brainer but as there is no Mexican driver racing currently in the series, it does not make much sense at this point. Montreal would be amazing, too, and a fitting place for a 2nd Canadian venue. It's sad that the New Hampshire race was literally lost to bad weather when they tried it once a few years ago. Lately, I've been surprising myself with the thought that I miss the Motegi oval on the IndyCar calendar. Have they even tried to perform the necessary repairs to the oval after the damage it received from the 2011 earthquake? An Australian race would be the most likely flyaway event these days. Surfers is not available anymore, though. Has anybody from IndyCar even tried to get in touch with Adelaide? I think they should. And what about Cleveland? I sure miss that. Didn't Mike Lanigan consider a return if a title sponsor could be found? Portland might be another good addition. And when Coca Cola appeared on Scott Dixon's car last year, the thought came up that racing in Atlanta, Georgia, might be a good idea.

However, I've never been fond of Houston's Reliant Park circuit. The haphazard way in which the circuit was constructed in a last-minute effort the week before the race in the year of Dario Franchitti's career-ending crash probably is what did the track in.

And I have my personal safety concerns about the upcoming race at Phoenix as well, given the fact that, just like Las Vegas, NASCAR had steepened the banking and changed the asphalt to make the racing surface faster. IndyCar needs to come up with a really clever aero rule package to create both safe and good racing. It is also with concern that I've read about NASCAR wanting to repave Iowa with the same type of faster asphalt which is also the current track surface of Brooklyn, Michigan.

To be honest, I've never really been a fan of Fontana because of safety concerns regarding the track's characteristic seams either. Last year's race really was edge-of-the-knife stuff, and it's no surprise that the drivers talked really emotionally about it after the chequered flag had fallen. I didn't watch it on TV because after the other big oval at Indy, I knew it would be more dangerous than usual, and I chickened out and met with a friend at her place.
The scheduling of Fontana in the midst of summer was a cruel move by IndyCar. I'm rather certain that some people in IndyCar management already regret not giving Fontana their required fall date for this year. I guess this is the most likely of the above mentioned racetracks to return to the schedule for next year. I do miss the Triple Crown, though.

For the same safety concerns, I believe it's better IndyCar does not race at Watkins Glen before the guardrails at the Esses are being moved back for a considerable amount. And neither do I think a return to Laguna Seca would be a good idea at this point. Yet, I wonder why nobody seems to be talking about a return to Chicagoland anymore: too many races in that part of the country perhaps?

So my suggestions for additions to the calendar would be: 1) Milwaukee, 2) Montreal, 3) Cleveland, 4) Kentucky, 5) Interlagos, 6) Adelaide, 7) Road Atlanta, 8) Mexico City, 9) Portland.

However, if the F1 race in Port Imperial, New Jersey, ever goes ahead, IndyCar should apply for the Saturday afternoon time slot at that track, after F1 qualifying is over. In case that race ever happens, it would be near the top of the "wish list" above.

Yet, most likely, my guess at this point is that in 2017, a new promoter for Milwaukee will have been found and that Fontana is going to return. And that would be OK with me, as it would mean a return to Milwaukee.

[rwintle]

I can't see how any overseas races would be worth doing, economically, but I don't fully understand the costs. Even without a Mexican driver in IndyCar at the moment though, I'd imagine a stop in Mexico would be hugely popular. And a Mexican driver or two could surely find funding for a one-off.

On the topic of Portland - I had a nice chat with Sebastien Bourdais last year at a pre-race event and he felt that the Pacific northwest was an obvious untapped market. He mentioned Portland and also the idea of a street race in Vancouver. I hadn't really thought about that part of the continent recently but maybe it would make sense?

Agree that in Canada, Montreal would be excellent if the date could be found (someone told me they allow only two major race weekends per year at Gilles Villeneuve (?) - so F1 and what used to be the NASCAR Nationwide/Grand Am weekend, which is sadly no more). I guess politicking with/against F1 would also be required. But I can't imagine it wouldn't be successful. And like Mexico, there would surely be a few French-Canadian drivers who are very popular there who could put together one-offs (Tags, JV, maybe even someone like Andrew Ranger?).

Just some waffly thoughts on a lazy Easter Sunday afternoon. Happy weekend, everybody.

[NaBUru38]

New Jersey is long gone. The new outrageous proposal is Las Vegas (which is a terrible time zone for Europeans).

Originally Posted by Yannick

Well, NaBUru38, Pocono is indeed on this year's schedule.

Ok, Pocono is forgettable! :P

Originally Posted by rwintle

a Mexican driver or two could surely find funding for a one-off

Perhaps Haas might like to lend Gutiérrez?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by rwintle

I can't see how any overseas races would be worth doing, economically, but I don't fully understand the costs. Even without a Mexican driver in IndyCar at the moment though, I'd imagine a stop in Mexico would be hugely popular. And a Mexican driver or two could surely find funding for a one-off.

On the topic of Portland - I had a nice chat with Sebastien Bourdais last year at a pre-race event and he felt that the Pacific northwest was an obvious untapped market. He mentioned Portland and also the idea of a street race in Vancouver. I hadn't really thought about that part of the continent recently but maybe it would make sense?

Agree that in Canada, Montreal would be excellent if the date could be found (someone told me they allow only two major race weekends per year at Gilles Villeneuve (?) - so F1 and what used to be the NASCAR Nationwide/Grand Am weekend, which is sadly no more). I guess politicking with/against F1 would also be required. But I can't imagine it wouldn't be successful. And like Mexico, there would surely be a few French-Canadian drivers who are very popular there who could put together one-offs (Tags, JV, maybe even someone like Andrew Ranger?).

Just some waffly thoughts on a lazy Easter Sunday afternoon. Happy weekend, everybody.

In a very recent interview Roger Penske said how he wasn't in favour of fly away races, though he had no problem with Canada and Mexico. He also mentioned the North West.

""I have no problem going to Canada and Mexico," he added. "There are a lot of people in the northwest United States that like racing. Getting these tracks and date equity is so important."

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/12...r-to-go-global

[bjohnsonsmith]

This article from the NY Times is well worth reading.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/s...tionfront&_r=0

[NaBUru38]

I love IndyCar, but that article has a tick coat of sugar.

IndyCar appears to have established a foothold

3TV ratings are up by 55 percent in the last three years, with an increase in each of those seasons.

Ratings are a fifth of Nascar.

[S griffin]

But NASCAR seems to be getting less popular and keeps introducing gimmicks to try and get them back, whilst Indycar seems to be on the up again, and continuing to recover from the post split hangover

[chunder]

Not sure about that.

I watched both yesterday evening and NASCAR kept me interested far more than Indy did, that was a very boring race.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunder

Not sure about that.

I watched both yesterday evening and NASCAR kept me interested far more than Indy did, that was a very boring race.

St. Pete's was not the most exciting race but the televising wasn't particularly good. Dixon made several passes to get back into third after being caught out by the FCY but it wasn't shown and the cameras tended to focus on the leaders.

[Formulahistory]

St Pete is one of the worse races in the season. That was the case last year as well.

[bjohnsonsmith]

It's certainly not one of the most exciting.

[MaskedRacer]

I think with the shape of the cars and the horrible paint jobs, it is harder to follow the races. That is a big problem for one. I liked Indycar much more in the 1990's and early 2000's than I do in 2017. Diss the old I.R.L. all you want but those races were not always predictable and you would get surprise winners a lot. I have nowhere near the interest in Indycar now than I did say 10-15 years ago. I follow sportscars mainly now.

On that point it will be interesting to see if Sebastain Bourdais can win 3 Florida races in a row at Sebring this Saturday.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

I think with the shape of the cars and the horrible paint jobs, it is harder to follow the races.

This is definitely not how I rate the quality of races on.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

I think with the shape of the cars and the horrible paint jobs, it is harder to follow the races. That is a big problem for one. I liked Indycar much more in the 1990's and early 2000's than I do in 2017. Diss the old I.R.L. all you want but those races were not always predictable and you would get surprise winners a lot. I have nowhere near the interest in Indycar now than I did say 10-15 years ago. I follow sportscars mainly now.

On that point it will be interesting to see if Sebastain Bourdais can win 3 Florida races in a row at Sebring this Saturday.

I don't see how the shape of a race car and the paint job makes it harder to follow a race. The current LMP1 cars aren't exactly lookers and the paint jobs not exactly inspiring



but following any race is pretty straight forward.

[CarfanLUFC]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

I think with the shape of the cars and the horrible paint jobs, it is harder to follow the races. That is a big problem for one. I liked Indycar much more in the 1990's and early 2000's than I do in 2017. Diss the old I.R.L. all you want but those races were not always predictable and you would get surprise winners a lot. I have nowhere near the interest in Indycar now than I did say 10-15 years ago. I follow sportscars mainly now.

On that point it will be interesting to see if Sebastain Bourdais can win 3 Florida races in a row at Sebring this Saturday.

My interest peaked between 99 to 06 in the IRL which constantly produced brilliant, close racing with like you say, some surprise winners.

Alex Barron winning in the Blair car for one, think that was 2002? If people actually gave the IRL a chance and got over their issues with TG then the series would have had for more fans. Unification was great but has it actually improved the on track product? I would say no. There is also way too many dull road and street courses which have been added the schedule at the expense of ovals. Ovals of course being the very foundation that US open wheel racing is built on.

What we have now probably does have a deeper field of professional drivers but I find my interest levels have dropped considerably. I don't think the racing will ever get as bad as some of the shams that Champ Car treated us too but it's gone a bit stale for sure. The rubbish tv deal we have in the UK for coverage doesn't excatly help exposure either

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by CarfanLUFC

Unification was great but has it actually improved the on track product? I would say no. There is also way too many dull road and street courses which have been added the schedule at the expense of ovals.

I would suggest watching Barber from 2015 and 2016. Also Fontana 2015 and then ask yourself the same question.

[RWill2073]

The lack of street and especially road courses is exactly why the irl didn't have more fans.