[WEC Race] 2013 FIA WEC 6 Hours of São Paulo ◦◦◦ RACE THREAD

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Eryk03

I would ashamed to admit that I am a part of such losers. Their road cars are just as poor as their achievements in motorsport.

You are really trying to live up to the overly-obnoxious Audi fanboy cliche, don't you?

Anyways, I really hope Toyota HQ watched this. Racing with one car means you have absolutely no margin for error, either your own or those of other people.

It was a real shame, I would have loved to see how that strategy would have played out given that their quickest guy hadn't even had the chance to drive.

LMP2 & GTE were great, LMP1 simply hangs on a thin string this year, the series just has to make it through the season - Things will look much brighter at the sharp end of the field next year.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by TF110

By Audi standard its 3 or 4 cars for LeMans (if allowed) 2 cars for the WEC (sometimes 3), not their pace. Diesels are advantaged, pretty obvious. Even Peugeot and their cars that hadn't changed shape since its inception were faster than Audi if not as reliable.

Drifting away from the subject, but actually good that you mentioned Peugeot... Since there are somewhat reliable reports of their and Audi's budget (I can provide the source links too, but maybe I should I just say "use the search, they're all somewhere in some thread here" like you do ), they were pretty evenly matched. Toyota might not have to match Audi's budget or have a bigger one, but now it feels like their budget isn't even in the same ballpark.

Like I said, if you take issue with their running 1 car, maybe you can help their budget

How many times I need repeat this: my issue IS NOT WITH THE DECISION to run 1 car because clearly that was now the best thing to do in this situation.

if Toyota dropped out of the WEC today, what merit would it stand on to be called a world championship? Instead of being negative because one car is running, regardless the name, we should be happy theres someone to challenge the 'tractors'. No Toyota = no WEC. No WEC = LeMans only. And for me once a year is not enough!

Half empty glass for me. Last year's test year what was not even the original plan was fine, but this year I expected to see properly funded program. Instead some execs still nightmares of F1 and all the more sad that the racing team itself has shown good progress.

[avvelenamento]

"if Toyota dropped out of the WEC today, what merit would it stand on to be called a world championship?"

To obtain by FIA the "world" ranking, a championship must to travel at least across 3 continents, that's why in 2009 fia gt was a series while in 2010 became a world championship. A toyota retirment, will just make WEC still more boring than now. Anyway toyota planned the season until fuji. #8 still the only car at austin and both #7 and #8 at fuji. I can expect toyota withdrawing last two races.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

"if Toyota dropped out of the WEC today, what merit would it stand on to be called a world championship?"

To obtain by FIA the "world" ranking, a championship must to travel at least across 3 continents, that's why in 2009 fia gt was a series while in 2010 became a world championship. A toyota retirment, will just make WEC still more boring than now. Anyway toyota planned the season until fuji. #8 still the only car at austin and both #7 and #8 at fuji. I can expect toyota withdrawing last two races.

If I am not mistaken, the rules also require a minimum of two constructors in the LMP1 class.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

If I am not mistaken, the rules also require a minimum of two constructors in the LMP1 class.

The continents requirement is in the FIA International Sporting Code, and that relates to the use of the World Championship status. There is no requirement of minimum amount of manufacturers, but in the WEC sporting regs there is this:

The title may be conferred only if at least two Manufacturers are entered.

And that only refers to LMP1 Manufacturers’ Championship. So series could still exist, just with no aforementioned title?

If Toyota had not come, I think they would have found a way to promote HPD to "manufacturer".

[avvelenamento]

Yeah, there is not any minimum manufacturer rule. Even with just audi (very unlikely because porsche seems to have a long term lmp1 program) WEC will keep on living, manufacturer cup could be folded and audi sport team joest would run for lmp1 team title. Or as deggis suggest, in the manufacturer's cup could be added lola, hpd, oreca etc...

[Stephen Green]

Right, either calm down and stop name calling of a load of you are going to get banned. I have better things to do with my life than keep checking on what is child like behavior. I don't want to read excuses or get a box full of PM's, just grow up and behave like adults or suffer the consequences.

[Eryk03]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Right, either calm down and stop name calling of a load of you are going to get banned. I have better things to do with my life than keep checking on what is child like behavior. I don't want to read excuses or get a box full of PM's, just grow up and behave like adults or suffer the consequences.

No problem. But that was just simply fact, nothing new.

[Bandicoot17]

Surely the important thing should be Toyota's budget for next year??
Wasn't the original plan to test in 2012, run one car in '13 and go all it out in '14??

If so, they did everyone a favour running last year, and aren't breaking any promises this season, if they start messing about next season then yeah, I'd say people have reason to be annoyed, not now.

Also it really annoys me how people are trying to discredit a team that won 3 races in it's first season against the 'almighty' Audi.
OK this season hasn't gone so well for Toyota but again they've improved after Le Man and were right on pace with the Audi all weekend.
Now people are actually insulting the cars Toyota make even though they are one of the biggest and most successful manufacturers on the planet?? Get real.

Would certain people actually prefer it if Toyota just didn't turn up?? I suppose they would, because then it could be one big Audi Fap Fest but for the people that actually care about the series and races I'd suggest that Toyota are making the series more enjoyable and is increasing interest.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Eryk03

No problem. But that was just simply fact, nothing new.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/fact?q=fact

[Aysedasi]

Let's get back to the discussion topic and real facts.....

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Bandicoot17

Surely the important thing should be Toyota's budget for next year??
Wasn't the original plan to test in 2012, run one car in '13 and go all it out in '14??

Yes:

A TMG spokesman said: "It is purely a matter of resources. What we shouldn't forget is that last year was intended as a test and development year and this year was meant to be our first full season, which probably would have meant one car in the WEC." (source)

Note, "probably". But important thing to remember is that the very original plan was made when Peugeot was still in the game, so low-key 1-car program would have made a lot more sense, since even a podium would have been much harder to achieve. But then that changed, but apparently their approach did not change. If their perception of "full season" as in serious attack on the championship is 1 car, when the norm is clearly 2, then I am disappointed.

Also it really annoys me how people are trying to discredit a team that won 3 races in it's first season against the 'almighty' Audi.

At least I am not discrediting the team, totally opposite and if anything they are doing excellent job especially relatively to their budget/resources. The people who are discrediting are in the boardroom in Japan. I would probably not be whining about this now if they had last year shown crappy performance and DNF'd every race...

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by deggis

http://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/fact?q=fact

Wow.

Maybe there could be a sportscar sub-forum or alternative race threads where people can nitpick each others posts and argue semantics without wasting everyone else's time.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Wow.

Don't wow at me, this was the context: http://tentenths.com/forum/showpost....&postcount=443

[Adam43]

Stephen and then Aysedasi just told everyone to get back on topic. So why are we talking about being off topic.

The thread is about the recent race at Interlagos.

[Stephen Green]

One more and the thread will be closed and a few will be taking an enforced holiday. Enough is enough.

[Victor_RO]

Is there any semi-confirmed figure for the size of the crowd? Think either the WEC Twitter or Facebook pages mentioned something about 35 thousand people on race day, anyone heard anything else?

[isynge]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Is there any semi-confirmed figure for the size of the crowd? Think either the WEC Twitter or Facebook pages mentioned something about 35 thousand people on race day, anyone heard anything else?

I seem to remember hearing/reading 30,000 - which is pretty much in line with what you heard.

Not bad - and about in line with what we saw at Silverstone and Spa.

Was impressed by some of the run up activities they did too - the cars driving through the Sao Paulo streets looked like it was great, although not sure it would have the same impact in Milton Keynes...

[TF110]

How many laps did Audi do on a stint before refueling (during a non caution period)? I didn't follow the lap amount in detail. I would download the pdf but I am not currently able.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by TF110

How many laps did Audi do on a stint before refueling (during a non caution period)? I didn't follow the lap amount in detail. I would download the pdf but I am not currently able.

Just had a really quick look through the race analysis PDF and I saw two consecutive 33-lap full-green-flag stints by car #1 (laps 139 to 172 to 205) and then a 30-lap stint to the end.

[Simmi]

Almost as frustrating as the Toyota going out was the fact that they probably didn't have anything for Audi at the end.

[Bandicoot17]

I think starting Davidson might have been a better plan for Toyota, he was the quickest Toyota driver and may have been able to at least challenge for second at the start, Sarrazin was the weakest driver of the weekend for them so starting him seemed odd to me. (I don't remember any rules about the start but it's been a long day so I may be wrong)

[TF110]

Originally Posted by avvelenamento

"if Toyota dropped out of the WEC today, what merit would it stand on to be called a world championship?"

To obtain by FIA the "world" ranking, a championship must to travel at least across 3 continents, that's why in 2009 fia gt was a series while in 2010 became a world championship. A toyota retirment, will just make WEC still more boring than now. Anyway toyota planned the season until fuji. #8 still the only car at austin and both #7 and #8 at fuji. I can expect toyota withdrawing last two races.

If they did wouldn't there be a penalty? They also need their image boosted in China as its a key market for them. They have only said one car for the season up to Fuji, so hopefully the plans are realized soon.

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

Just had a really quick look through the race analysis PDF and I saw two consecutive 33-lap full-green-flag stints by car #1 (laps 139 to 172 to 205) and then a 30-lap stint to the end.

Interesting. Will have to compare to last year's stints. Too bad Toyota got taken out before even a pit stop. The team were saying they could have went further than Audi, so possibly 34-36 laps? They were about 13 seconds behind. I guess we will see how it goes at Austin! Hopefully I will be there.

[chernaudi]

WEC used to have a rule that fastest qualifier had to start the race. I think that it only applied to LM this year because of the new qualifying system used for the other rounds outside of LM. And also, it might not have applied to LM either, since Duval was the fastest qualifier in the #2 Audi and McNish started the race.

As for the fuel mileage, the furthest that I saw Toyota go in practice was 34 laps, so only about one more lap than Audi usually did in the same circumstances. It seems that the quest for aero grip and power took it's toll on the fuel mileage strategy, since Toyota earlier in the season could go 2-3 laps further than Audi at Spa and Silverstone. That for sure would save them one stop. But only one lap, I'm not so sure how much that would've helped in a 6 hour/1000+km race. Would obviously save time on the last stop, but saving a whole stop? Hard to tell since Toyota didn't make it even to the first cycle of stops before getting taken out, but a one lap advantage around Interlogos (one of the shorter WEC tracks) doesn't seem to be very big.

[TF110]

Audi pit on the 33rd lap in practice like the race. And Toyota just followed suit right after. Not sure thats absolute if the drivers were saying they could go "further". We will see in about 4 weeks!