Andretti F1 - 2025

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

FIA President now thinks that the best path for Andretti would be to buy an existing team. The Pres now says that quality is more important than quantity. Maybe Ben should have given that some thought before he opened up the application process?

The next Concorde agreement with existing teams is currently being negotiated which I believe is a contract between FOM, the teams and.... FIA. I can only find mention of much older versions of the Concorde agreement, but I think FIA was pulling in 30% of broadcast revenue back in the day. The rest goes to the teams and FOM. I don't know what the current split is or what the future split might be. So I expect MBS is trying to play nice and not antagonizing his negotiation partners as they are carving out slices from the same pie. I expect a significant part of the FIA budget comes from F1 revenue?

Richard

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Tourer

FIA President now thinks that the best path for Andretti would be to buy an existing team. The Pres now says that quality is more important than quantity. Maybe Ben should have given that some thought before he opened up the application process?

He is now focussed on reelection and trying to convince the FIA electors that he won’t endanger their gravy train.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

No.
The regulations allow for 26 cars and for the commercial rights holder to limit the number of participating teams to 10 rather than 13 is contradictory to developing the sport as the rules are outlaid in the regulations.
Ben did the right thing.

Think it’s actually up to 24 (12 teams) & don’t disagree with you but my point is that MBS now appears to have backed down completely & is not advocating an additional team - lot of angst would have been prevented if he’d been consistent with that position from the start, whether or not we agree with it.

Quite extraordinarily weak in my view & agree with others that he’s trying to curry votes for his re-election.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Think it’s actually up to 24 (12 teams) & don’t disagree with you but my point is that MBS now appears to have backed down completely & is not advocating an additional team - lot of angst would have been prevented if he’d been consistent with that position from the start, whether or not we agree with it.

Quite extraordinarily weak in my view & agree with others that he’s trying to curry votes for his re-election.

I disagree. He should stick by what he said. It’s not his fault F1 and its teams are so elitist. Quite frankly we need more teams to give more drivers opportunities. 20 on the grid isn’t enough

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I disagree. He should stick by what he said. It’s not his fault F1 and its teams are so elitist. Quite frankly we need more teams to give more drivers opportunities. 20 on the grid isn’t enough

You're actually agreeing with me. I'm saying that he's been inconsistent and changed his position. To me, he either should have been for or against additional teams and should hold the same position now - completely irresponsible and weak to change horses after a number of teams (not just Andretti) put in the work to apply, based on the FIA encouraging them and opening applications.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

To me, he either should have been for or against additional teams and should hold the same position now - completely irresponsible and weak to change horses after a number of teams (not just Andretti) put in the work to apply, based on the FIA encouraging them and opening applications.

He is a political animal. This is how politics work. If the winds blow in the other direction expect him to change course again.

Richard

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Richard C

He is a political animal. This is how politics work. If the winds blow in the other direction expect him to change course again.

Richard

Yep - at the expense of (in this case) the hopes/dreams/effort of the applicant teams.

Neither professional nor a good look for the head of the governing body to backflip like he has, but I guess it proves that he's a political animal and like all of them, trust is a scarce commodity.

[veeten]

Starting to have that ' life imitating art' feel to it... Phantom Menace, perhaps?

" a vote of no confidence in Mohammed Ben Sulayem's leadership"...

[Skam85]

Originally Posted by veeten

Starting to have that ' life imitating art' feel to it... Phantom Menace, perhaps?

" a vote of no confidence in Mohammed Ben Sulayem's leadership"...

and then in 35yrs time.. Somehow, Ben Sulayem survived..

[GTRMagic]

Alpine Looking For Post-2026 Engine Supply

Andretti has an engine.
Alpine is looking for an engine.
Sorted….

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Alpine Looking For Post-2026 Engine Supply

Andretti has an engine.
Alpine is looking for an engine.
Sorted….

Andretti hasn’t got an engine though.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Alpine Looking For Post-2026 Engine Supply

Andretti has an engine.
Alpine is looking for an engine.
Sorted….

Andretti has an engine in the future , it did have a deal with Renault in the interim It all seems a bit smoke and mirrors to me

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Alpine Looking For Post-2026 Engine Supply

Andretti has an engine.
Alpine is looking for an engine.
Sorted….

Andretti has an engine for 2028 but it appears that the only option for an engine that it had for 2026 was the Renault unit.

If Renault is in fact getting out of the engine business, then Andretti (on the face of it) has zero chance of being on the grid prior to 2028 as a new team in its own right.

Maybe the FOM crew were aware of doubts about Renault engines when the decision was made on Andretti but couldn't say so due to any indications from Renault being in confidence?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It’s not his fault F1 and its teams are so elitist.

Elitist?!

How so? They have seen teams beyond 10th place go bankrupt over and over again (Caterham, Hispania, Manor... Arrows, Prost etc), and don't want to repeat that. Surely that's reasonable not elitist?!

Knowing that prize money goes to the top 10 WCC only, they don't want to be in that position, which is reasonable.

I'm in favour of 13 teams/26 cars (or pre-qualifying with 40 entries, sure why not), but the other teams will only want that if it doesn't financially penalise them and there can be a stable foundation that keeps all of these teams solvent.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Yep - at the expense of (in this case) the hopes/dreams/effort of the applicant teams.

I don't understand why Andretti are so desperate to enter Formula One. Unfortunately, they may have missed their chances (2017, 2015, 2010 etc).

Why not start a breakaway Grand Prix series? The money they are intended to spend, would go a long way towards a Andretti-Cosworth V10 (or Cadillac 5.5 V8 if they want) spec series with names like de Vries, Pourchaire, Drugovich etc! [Do they suspect that would be akin to setting $500m on fire? But are they racers and all about the racing or not?!]

Or it could be a "non-elitist" open formula Grand Prix series with pre-qualifying for all these constructors who are (supposedly) desperate to enter Formula One! No elitist commercial contracts, just arrive with your car, pre-qualify and race.

Why not enter WEC?

Why not enter Formula 2 and Formula 3?

To start with why doesn't Andretti gain experience mass-producing racing cars, by tendering for the 2027-2028 Indycar or advoating for Indycar to go a multi-make formula? There could be a regulatory relationship between the new Grand Prix World Series and the American Indycar series -- perhaps they could arrange to use the same chassis and engines?

To the contrary, instead of Andretti being motivated by a desire to build and race their own Grand Prix cars -- which they could do in a breakaway series with like-minded constructors, they seem instead to be motivated by a desire to extract commercial value from Formula One (please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Existing Formula One constructors are therefore not best pleased about the commensurate losss of commercial value and team value they would experience due to that!

Given the sums of money Andretti intends to spend, that should be more than enough to avoid this commercial conflict and start their own Grand Prix series instead, surely?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I don't understand why Andretti are so desperate to enter Formula One.

Someone thinks there's a chance to spend $500m to have an asset worth $1b. End of.

[bathurst77]

I dont think anyone believes there is a market for yet another open wheel series. indy, f1, f2, f3, academy, etc plus all the national series
You would need to arrange venues, broadcasters etc etc.
We had that world series a decade back where the teams represented countries. that fizzed.

Like it or not F1 is the big game now, and Andretti wants to play with the big boys and girls.

[bathurst77]

I find the "Quality not quantity" argument stupid.

Saying we dont want another backmarker struggling, who may go bankrupt or pull out.
I seem to remember a certain energy drink team struggling at first. Similarly I remember the big W used to be Frankly unbeatable.

All teams struggle some seasons and do well others. Thats the nature of sports. TO say you can only enter if you can prove you will immediately do well, is the best catch there is.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Like it or not F1 is the big game now, and Andretti wants to play with the big boys and girls.

Then they should buy a team!

The desperation to enter F1 now, when they didn't apply for entry in 2017 when HAAS did is really odd IMO.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Then they should buy a team!

The desperation to enter F1 now, when they didn't apply for entry in 2017 when HAAS did is really odd IMO.

1-There aren’t any teams for sale
2-It’s no longer 2017.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Alan52

1-There aren’t any teams for sale

There are ALWAYS teams for sale. You just need to want to pay the price.

[S griffin]

We need more teams. F1 is too closed shop atm. Quite a few teams have fallen by the wayside that shouldn't.

[P38 in workshop]

Post #467 is presumably alluding to A1GP .It also didn't mention Super Formula,which is hugely competitive.I can understand why the current owners of struggling teams might resist having another entity to beat,while maintaining an artificially high valuation for their own team.It means they continue to enjoy a decent revenue stream while not really being forced to make a leap forward.It also says a lot for their confidence in their workforce that they don't seem to believe they could beat a new team with no experience of designing and building their own cars.I'd like to see this complacency shaken up and I's like to see more cars on the grid.To distort an old analogy,the plan seems to be -if you can't stand the heat,sell the kitchen for an inflated price.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by S griffin

We need more teams. F1 is too closed shop atm. Quite a few teams have fallen by the wayside that shouldn't.

Why shouldn't tey have fallen by the wayside? Poor results, Poor management, Poor business model or built out of straw in the first place

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Someone thinks there's a chance to spend $500m to have an asset worth $1b. End of.

Bit of a side question, perhaps already answered in this thread, but where would Andretti be getting 500m+ from?

I believe I have seen mentioned some of the backers own other pro sports teams so I would imagine these are people/groups with deep pockets…probably pockets deep enough and experience in their field that they should be used to coming into a new sports franchise by making a much bigger splash than what this current bid is offering?

Also since being rejected have they upped the ante with their bid?rather, why aren’t these partners offering up a lot more…even more if they want to start their own shingle from scratch?

to secure a new NFL franchise, aside from having all the money, you need to be able to bring in a new state of the art multi billion stadium in an incredibly lucrative market, and of course pay off all the existing owners.

What would the F1 equivalent be? Obviously bringing in a leading auto manu to the table at a bare minimum. Clearly bringing in a famous racing name like in the old days doesn’t count for much? Create a new standard in team facilities like a next gen Woking, take over an old circuit and promote a race like RB but this time in like central London? get sponsors on the level of Apple or other major global brands that have never crossed over into F1 before?

what exactly would be the type of deal that would get F1 to acquiesce for an 11th team?

I suspect it would have to be at least a couple of billion more in both spending and value added than what is currently on offer.

As sad as it is to say, is this Andretti group even in the right ballpark when it comes to offer size?