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2 Mar 2011, 06:36 (Ref:2838882) | #451 | ||
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Quote:
Kevin |
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2 Mar 2011, 07:05 (Ref:2838890) | #452 | |
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BT21A? id help please (3,5,or 6? or none of the above). Details provided are:
Chassis AM221 (appears correct for 21a) - no original chassis plate Originally to USA (unknown) as twin cam/FB Imported (rolling chassis) to UK by Bob Howlings 1980? converted to F3 driven by Mike Vickery. Back to twin cam for Scott Coleman. Sold (rolling chassis) to France to F3 for Banakela. Back to the UK by Len Selby who sold it to Mallet 2006 to Keith Norman restored as a twin cam. Kevin |
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26 Apr 2011, 20:39 (Ref:2870230) | #453 | |
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Does anyone out there know the current location of BT21-29; Mike Walker was asking at Cdawell Park last weekend. He originally bought the car from Frank Williams in early 1967.
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27 Apr 2011, 17:37 (Ref:2870748) | #454 | ||
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21 May 2011, 03:38 (Ref:2883359) | #455 | ||
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BT21C - AM288 a little more info
After some years trying to find Noel McGlothlin I found a thread where he had shared cars with Robert Rentzell of Chatanooga in the 1960s. (Noel took delivery of BT21C-14 which is a strong possiblity of being my car)
A white pages search found Robert and I rang & spoke with him for quite a while. Yes Noel did own a BT21C and Robert drove it a couple of times when they were testing together. He remembers it was scarlet in colour, not red but deeper, Robert said a definite scarlet. He wasn't sure what happened to it after Noel finished with it, and is going to ask the family for me. Noel passed away in 1980. If I can find out what happened to it after Noel, then maybe I can link it to where I am at now going back ... Here is a photo of AM288 at Mallala, South Australia at Easter in the last race where it managed a 1st place. Ed |
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17 Oct 2011, 12:46 (Ref:2972631) | #456 | |||
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What did you learn from Dewey Harless at that lunch. I've learnt recently that Monson bought Nick Reynolds' car and that it then went to Gary Gove. It could have gone to Harless next. |
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20 Nov 2011, 06:02 (Ref:2989050) | #457 | ||
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I've just published an article about another Washington state BT21, which I photographed at Kent this June. Here's the link:
Al Murray's Brabham BT21 (chassis #5, Arch Motors #177) |
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23 Nov 2011, 03:49 (Ref:2990269) | #458 | ||
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[QUOTE=BritishV8;2989050]I've just published an article about another Washington state BT21, which I photographed at Kent this June...]
I now understand that the original chassis plate for this car is missing and the Brabham chassis number I provided (above) is unverified. I'd edit my earlier post if I knew how... |
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23 Nov 2011, 09:01 (Ref:2990338) | #459 | ||
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The plate is a fairly obvious reproduction as it has an absolute howler of a mistake on it but a lot of cars lost their chassis plates on the way into the US so that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the car.
In the absence of a history before 1970-ish, the key is whether that AM number is genuine. It's in the right range to be an early BT21 but if that is a modern addition too, then the car could be anything. Do you have a photograph of the AM stamping? |
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23 Nov 2011, 16:04 (Ref:2990493) | #460 | ||
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No... it's obviously a very nice car and I should have taken a lot more photos of it, but I published everything I have.
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23 Nov 2011, 18:37 (Ref:2990559) | #461 | ||
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Bt21
Allen,
I will take a photo of the AM number on my car for you and post it later. Yes, the engraver didn't get the plate just right. I am certainly not trying to pass this car off as -5. In my research of all of the posts here at 10tenths there was never any mention of -5, so I thought I would borrow the number for a while. The back of the numer plate is engraved as not original to the car. This chassis AM number is two numbers different from Tim Osborne's 21 here in Seattle. His car has a plastic plate too. I saw Wayne Mitchell's tag for his -16 car and it is metal. I am not trying to decieve anyone here. I had requested that Curtis remove the tag photo and the reference to -5 Sunday. It would be nice to complete the history of this car, but like a lot of searches, I hit a dead end. This is a great car and I have enjoyed racing it for the last three seasons. Unfortunetly, I am just to big of a guy to get really comfortable in it. As you can see, I had to cut down the windshield after I broke one side of it off getting out of the car. So, this car will go on the market as soon as I get it race prepped for next season. AL Murray |
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23 Nov 2011, 21:33 (Ref:2990630) | #462 | ||
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Thanks for clarifying that Al. Did you speak to Marc Bahner about the car? Was he able to remember anything about how he came by it?
A picture of the AM number would be really helpful. You can email it to allen@oldracingcars.com if you don't want to show it here. |
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2 Jul 2012, 22:13 (Ref:3101091) | #463 | |
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I have a BT-21 and could use some help clarifying and documenting the history. The rear cross member is stamped AM-238. It does not have a dash plaque, but the log book dating back to 1972 identifies at as BT 21-30. It was identified as Formula C with a 997 cc Holbay. The log book identifies Mike Rand transferring it to Tom Speed in May 1972, then to Ira de Vaugn in June 1972, and then to General Marsh in Aug 1986. I bought it from General Marsh (a Cleveland are veternarian) around 1987. At that time it had a 1600CC OHV Ford. It has since been restored with a Lotus twin cam and currently resides in Northern California.
A few years after I purchased it, Mike Fitzgerald called and provided the following ownership train: 1967 - Frank Williams, driven by Piers Courage 1968 - P&M Race Prep, driven by John Epton and Keith Jupp 1968- Fred Opert 1968- Chuck Schroderele 1970 - Mike Rand 1970 - Carl Bergman Pat Dundas 1978 - Mike Rand 1980- Tom Speed & IG Spencer However, parts of this are inconsistent with the log book. Can anyone help clarify and/or document the trail? Thanks |
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5 Jul 2012, 10:04 (Ref:3102321) | #464 | |||
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This can't be the car that goes from Schroedel to Rand in 1970. That car was owned by John Lindsay in 2005 and maybe still is. It has documented history from Schroedel in 1969 onwards. It doesn't have a plate either. It's alleged to be one of Peter Westbury's F3 cars, but if it is it must be his 1968 BT21B as the 1967 cars are known in UK up to 1972. |
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8 Aug 2012, 15:39 (Ref:3117628) | #465 | ||
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Brabham BT21 Chassis Number 25 AM187
Hi, I would appreciate any information on this car. Last owned by the late Trevor Messett.
Many thanks Mike |
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8 Aug 2012, 16:19 (Ref:3117645) | #466 | ||
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8 Aug 2012, 17:27 (Ref:3117668) | #467 | ||
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Assuming that the Dan Bruggeman car and the Trevor Messett are the same car of course...
What do you know of its recent history Mike? |
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13 Aug 2012, 19:34 (Ref:3119477) | #468 | ||
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Trevor Messett owned the car from 2002 till his death earlier this year. Prior to this it was owned from 1980 - 2002 by a Dr Mitchellmore.
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16 Aug 2012, 08:54 (Ref:3120609) | #469 | |||
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So, does your car have an MRD chassis plate on it. Could you post a photo of it here? The AM 187 you cite presumably is visible as a stamp on the rear sub-frame. Please could you post a photo of it? 187 is in the right range for a 1967 production Brabham, so a BT21 would make sense, but people did flip frames around. Finally, I guess that your evidence for the Mitchelmore ownership comes from an SCCA log. If so, could you tell us the SCCA reference number on that book? Is there a stamp on the roll hoop that accords with the reference number? Is there a small hole drilled in the side of the roll hoop? If we can identify where the car was registered then we may be able to pick it up in contemporary adverts. Are there any races shown in the log book - the earliest ones would be the most interesting to us. If you can't post pictures here you could send scans to me or Allen Brown chris[AT]oldracingcars[DOT]com allen[AT]oldracingcars[DOT]com Cheers Chris |
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2 Oct 2012, 01:24 (Ref:3144952) | #470 | |
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I worked through this entire thread and have seen a few references to BT21-25 but no solid information. I am considering purchasing what is left of this car. It spent the 80s in SCCA autocrossing with an Alfa twincam engine and the original Hewland transaxle... assuming this is the original? The current owner remembers getting a log book when they purchased it but it has long since been lost. Am I correct that BT21-25 would be an BT21B? And any speculation why there appears to be two BT21-25s? http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...bham_bt21.html Last edited by krek; 2 Oct 2012 at 01:36. |
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2 Oct 2012, 02:35 (Ref:3144974) | #471 | ||
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If it was a BT21B the plate would read BT21B-25
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2 Oct 2012, 03:16 (Ref:3144983) | #472 | |
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2 Oct 2012, 04:55 (Ref:3145001) | #473 | ||
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Welcome krek.
Is there an AM number stamped on the frame ? |
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2 Oct 2012, 12:04 (Ref:3145161) | #474 | |
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3 Oct 2012, 00:40 (Ref:3145471) | #475 | ||
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AM number is stamped on rearward face of top left shock absorber pick up point generally , it will say typically
AM ??? ?? |
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