The Historic Racers Cycling Thread

[Alan Morgan]

Back to my picture of the Guildford race. It was very encouraging to see a lot of youngsters racing. They had races for under 8s to under 16s (in 2-year age groups) before the adult races. The under 16 winner was a guy called Leon Atkins - watch out for him in the future. Apparently earlier this year he did a 22 mile time trial in 34:39. I'd be pretty pleased with myself if I did a 10 mile TT in under 30 minutes!

When I was that age, cycling wasn't a cool thing to do in GB. Thanks to Wiggins, Froome, Cavendish and Pidcock etc that seems to have changed...

[Alan Morgan]

Oops - just realised that the TT course was shortened to 16 miles because of roadworks. My awe and respect still stands, though.

[Alan Morgan]

Wow - what a stage in the Tour today!

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Wow - what a stage in the Tour today!

Quite a stage Alan, Pog thought he could distance his rivals, but Vinego, thought otherwise. A truly epic day out in the mountains, for the first time this year Pog weakened as Vinego got better and better, will this set the tone for the rest of the race? Is the pendulum swinging towards Visma, or can the very strong UAE team control things.

The Tour has come alive. Can't wait for the next tough one to come.

[Alan Morgan]

Originally Posted by bauble

Quite a stage Alan, Pog thought he could distance his rivals, but Vinego, thought otherwise. A truly epic day out in the mountains, for the first time this year Pog weakened as Vinego got better and better, will this set the tone for the rest of the race? Is the pendulum swinging towards Visma, or can the very strong UAE team control things.

The Tour has come alive. Can't wait for the next tough one to come.

Looks like Saturday and Sunday will be big ones. 3 HC climbs, 4 Cat 1 and a Cat 2 over the two days. 8800m of climbing...

[bauble]

Alan, looking at a replay of the stage, there were signs that Pog is not as strong as we have been led to believe. Firstly when Vin was closing the gap on the 1st Cat. climb, he was unable to respond, and kept looking back. A sure sign of trouble, then at the finish, he would normally have just gone for the line in a sprint, that would have beaten Vinego, but he tracked Jonas and tried to out fox him, but did not have the strength. Two definite signs of weakness, something we haven't seen from Tad all season. Not saying he is finished, but Remco and Roglic will have taken note I'm sure.
Good news for us watchers, all four favourites in the top four places, but surely one will crack before the end?

Personally I'm hoping to se Rodriguez on the podium.

Cheers,

Bob ex Edgware Road Club. Treasurer to the 1973 World Cyclo Cross World Championships.

[Alan Morgan]

Chapeau! What size tyres and what sort of gearing did you run in those days?

Cyclo Cross has always struck me as slightly mad. The regulations require you to run something that's pretty close to a road bike in mountain bike conditions.

Not suggesting that you're slightly mad Bob, of course...

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Chapeau! What size tyres and what sort of gearing did you run in those days?

Cyclo Cross has always struck me as slightly mad. The regulations require you to run something that's pretty close to a road bike in mountain bike conditions.

Not suggesting that you're slightly mad Bob, of course...

Road bikes were the norm, modified to suit the conditions, larger rear sprockets, but with a relatively small cog for fast sections, as courses varied enormously. Double front chain rings with a third ring with the teeth filed off to protect them from clogging, bolted on the outside.
Special tyres with a v-tread to give grip in muddy conditions, and on the front wheel you would fit the tyre 'backwards' so the v's pointed backwards, to aid stability on descents. I used Mavic Racer brakes with centre pull operation, Campagnola rear mechanism, cotterless chain set, and handlebar changers.

I was pretty useless to be honest, I found wearing glasses a handicap, as they got dirty, and tended to jump around on your nose, making vision difficult. Well that was my excuse, but to be fair, on straight bits I was as good as anyone being very fit from riding 50 miles a day to work.

I was secretary of the London Cyclo Cross Association, and organised, a tough race around Whippendell Woods in Watford that attracted many top class riders, who used it to prepare for the World Championships.
Mildly famous you might say.

Would you like some posters from the 1973 Worlds CC run at Crystal Palace?

They bear my name so are extremely valuable

[Alan Morgan]

Hmm. Was that the killer punch by Roglic today?

I hope not...

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Hmm. Was that the killer punch by Roglic today?

I hope not...

Don't worry, Alan, it was not

[Alan Morgan]

Oops...

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

Oops...

I thought, that's a funny way to spell Pogacar.

I agree with the sentiment, a shame if Tad dominates from now on, it does get boring when one man is so much better than his rivals, I feel Vingegaard, might still have more to come, as he said, he prefers longer harder climbs, whereas yesterday was more suited to Pog.

My favourite, Rodriguez is hanging on well, and lost only nine seconds to Remco, and he is better on the longer climbs, I fancy he can give Remco a run for his money, and if Jonas cracks maybe even more. Plenty to keep interest alive for a while.

Makes me miss by bike even more.

[morninggents]

Seems like Pogacar has it now. Sunday's stage where he saw off Vingegard in the mountains was a key moment.

[andy97]

Much more mundane, sorry, but I am doing my second ever “gravel” sportive on 3 Aug with “Glorious Gravel”. 95Km from Fakenham race course to Hunstanton and back via the Peddars Way and several of Norfolk’s (not so) finest back roads.
Challenging enough for me.

[Alan Morgan]

95K on gravel/dodgy roads is serious stuff!

Did a hilly 80K club ride today which also featured some horrible roads (apart from Box Hill which still has it's beautiful London 2012 surface). Towards the end we went up Combe Lane, just outside Shere. It hits 18% for a (mercifully brief) period. The lovely weather made it very enjoyable.

Got back just in time to watch the last 15K of the Tour. Well done Carapaz!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

95K on gravel/dodgy roads is serious stuff!

Did a hilly 80K club ride today which also featured some horrible roads (apart from Box Hill which still has it's beautiful London 2012 surface). Towards the end we went up Combe Lane, just outside Shere. It hits 18% for a (mercifully brief) period. The lovely weather made it very enjoyable.

Got back just in time to watch the last 15K of the Tour. Well done Carapaz!

I think the Peddars Way is mostly is a hard packed mud and grass footpath and having done some training rides on that sort of surface I reckon I can only manage half the speed as on tarmac.
At least it’s flat.
And the route goes about 5 miles from my parents place in Dersingham so if I am struggling I will just divert there and pick up the car later!!

[andy97]

Apologies, didn’t finish my post as the dinner bell rang!
The Peddars Way portion of my ride is only about 40% of the route so hopefully the rest of it on tarmac won’t be too bad. Still a decent challenge for this 61 yr old who only started cycling a few months ago. just sitting on a bike for approx 5 hours will be difficult! Previous best is 3.5 hours.
As for 80k on a hilly course, I know I could not manage that. There’s a reason I choose events in Norfolk! And an 18% hill would see me calling for a taxi. Well done!

[bauble]

Am I alone in thinking that Pogacar is a bit too greedy? He had no reason to win today's stage, he is so far ahead in the race, he did not need to make up more time, as it was he robbed Jorgenson of what should have been a richly deserved stage win. Yes! no reason Pog should let him have his moment of glory, he had every right to take the stage, but he did it just because he could.
Every one recognises he is currently the best man by far, able to win any race he is in, but he is simply rubbing peoples noses in it, smacks of arrogance.
Also in interviews he rarely speaks well of his rivals, he does not rubbish them, but lacks any grace, he tends to deflect comment by praising his own team.

I do not dislike him, he is an outstanding rider, fully deserving of all the accolades he gets, so while I admire him I can't actually like him.

I doubt if any one will agree with me though.

[morninggents]

It's a difficult one to judge, Bob.
I agree Pogacar has been demonstrating his superiority but it has seemed to me as if he was trying to show Vinegar that he is undoubtedly numero uno.

I have not yet watched the highlights of yesterday's stage (thanks for the spoiler, by the way!) so can't comment on the manner of his stage win.

Just a thought, though. If he had 'let' Jorgenson take the stage how satisfying would that have been to Jorgenson?

[Alan Morgan]

I don't dislike Pogacar - maybe he has at the back of his mind a record number of stage wins. If he did exceed Cavendish's record it would certainly show a versatility that was closer to Eddy Merckx.

However, my biggest repect goes to Jonas Vingegaard. He looked a broken man on Friday but put in a great performance yesterday.

[bauble]

Originally Posted by Alan Morgan

I don't dislike Pogacar - maybe he has at the back of his mind a record number of stage wins. If he did exceed Cavendish's record it would certainly show a versatility that was closer to Eddy Merckx.
However, my biggest repect goes to Jonas Vingegaard. He looked a broken man on Friday but put in a great performance yesterday.

Quite right Alan, Jonas has been outstanding considering his condition twelve weeks ago.
I have developed a certain, contempt for Taddy over the last week or so. There is no doubting his ability, which is almost unbelievable, however, yesterday was a perfect example of what I find distasteful, he sat in the bunch all day protected by his team, took full advantage of Remco's attempt to distance, Jonas, then sat on Vinegaar's wheel, refusing to help, then sprints off at the last minute to win the stage. Fine, not very sporting but perfectly legitimate, but crossing the line banging his chest, and looking so smug as if he had done something special on his own did not sit right with me. Complete disregard for his rivals, it is all about the 'Great Tadej Pogacar'.

Contrasted with Vinegaar, he comes off badly in the PR stakes, Jonas, is always honest about his own performance, and gives due respect to his fellow riders. Remember last year's tour? When he and Tad were trying to catch Rodriguez, on a long down hill road, and Pogacar overshot a corner and almost crashed, but Vinegaar waited for him to catch up, before continuing the pursuit? Sporting behaviour when he could have taken advantage.

Sorry, but no matter how good Pogacar is he lacks humility.

As always disagree, it is only one old fashioned person's opinion.

BB.

[Adam43]

It’s Prost and Senna. Vingegaard and Pogacar. Except they are nice to each other. They both know that winning means more when the other is there. They are both racers, but tacticians too, just like Prost and Senna, but one of those traits is more obvious than the other in each. I, like Jenks did and would, relish this. Hence like Jenks I am a big Senna fan.

Vingegaard is ace. We shout for him when watching. Although I will stick up for Pogacar here, because bizarrely it seems to be a thing that he’s not nice. Maybe it is the modern world amd the internet where you have to show you like something by putting something else down on the internet

Pogacar just wants to win the bike race!

If you don’t go for an attack are you a bike racer anymore seems to be the philosophy. Image a Senna, or a Villeneuve, not wanting to win a race.

The last few years have been great. Probably defined by who has the strongest support team and the build up. Both years have been influenced by crashes. Hopefully next year both have a good preparation and we go again! I am so happy when they are ridding together on the slopes.

It’s brilliant.

We had years of sky/Ineos. One of our forum members is part of the team. I am a fan of them. After the initial burst on the scene we ended up with some very dull years because no one could really challenge them. Controlled stages. Which I appreciated, but today we have some racers. Maybe they might come unstuck at some point, but I love them both for it.

I hear there is arrogance in one and the other sulks. I see no real negative in each character. Although I’m not looking for it particularly. It reminds me of teenagers who don’t like music of bands who have become too popular.

I see them waiting if there is a problem. I see them praise the other. I see them embrace or touch hands after a fight on the slopes.

This pictures below what I think about when I think of either of them and it makes me smile. How blummin’ brilliant is this!

And to continue the fun analogy, this year we have Evenepoel. Is he the Mansell? Except without the moustache and collapsing on the podium? But those time trials! Wow! Will be win after starting in Monaco today unlike Mansell.

Links to pictures:
https://escapecollective.com/tdf-sta...-with-pogacar/
https://www.thenationalnews.com/spor...our-de-france/
https://www.bicycling.com/tour-de-fr...our-de-france/
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/521...r-extends-lead
https://www.procyclingstats.com/key-...ar-shake-hands
https://www.local10.com/sports/2024/...year-old-mark/
https://www.welovecycling.com/wide/2...-ever-rivalry/

[bauble]

Nice analogy, Adam, and love the pictures, the last is from last year's tour, where Pog nearly crashed, and Vinegaar sat up and waited for him to get back to him.
In professional cycling you do see many examples of it still being a SPORT, not so in many other sports.

[Adam43]

That is true. There is ruthlessness, massive sporting achievements, but it does have a sporting approach too.

As you can see I am a fully signed up member of the Pog and Vin fan club.

On the analogy I haven’t decide who is Piquet yet.

[bauble]

Oops, Regarding my last post, it was picture 4 not the last one.