Cadwell and Code 60

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Back in the "good old days", not so many years ago, a typical one-day club meeting would run seven or eight races; now it can be as many as eleven or twelve. Why? Because the cost of running a race meeting is now so high that the clubs are having to spread the cost over more entrants to keep the cost of entry down to something like reasonable (well, actually they are far from reasonable!).

You could equally argue that in the old days typical grids were 26 cars therefore not as many races were needed for the same number of entries and so the programme didn't need to be so packed.

Back to the topic, Code 60 in my experience works extremely well and sure allow a swift clear up in safety. We need to get used to it at club level, and especially educate the drivers that they need to do it properly. Perhaps with the threat that if they don't it will be a red flag with no restart. Instant penalty will concentrate the minds.

Code 60 won't work under all circumstances, but I think with common sense it will work under most. The old battenburg would have worked better if it had been deployed properly which is something code 60 deals with.

Just give it time, and then review. On the other hand, I can't disagree with the 'if drivers obeyed yellow flags properly we could work safely without it being needed'. And as for code 60 over short distances (Slow Zones WEC call them) that's sort of what a yellow flag sector is, isn't it?

[coppice]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

As another poster alluded to, this sounds like classic 'don't like change'. Code 60 has been around in Europe for what - 5 years already? It works.
Just be brave and look further afield than our own backyard and find the answers to all those questions.

No , not at all, I am fine with any change for the right reason but don't welcome it for its own sake. I don't venture to Europe to watch racing , I have never seen Code 60 before last Sunday - hence my questions . Happy to watch it in action again - and just hope it doesn't spoil the day again...

[peebee2]

The only people who will think code 60 is good are marshals and officials. Nobody who actually races will. It's even a step down from the battenburg.

[SlatorRacing]

Originally Posted by Woolley

Just give it time, and then review. On the other hand, I can't disagree with the 'if drivers obeyed yellow flags properly we could work safely without it being needed'. And as for code 60 over short distances (Slow Zones WEC call them) that's sort of what a yellow flag sector is, isn't it?

The problem with yellow flags though is that there is no solid line which a driver needs to hit (such as a speed limit). It's quite easy to drive through a yellow flag zone without attracting the attention of the officials but not losing much time whatsoever but still being in complete control of the car.

Code60 provides that acceptable solid line.

I'm on the fence with Code60 in general, but I for it for longer races where deploying the safety car destroys gaps built up. Code60 with a closed pitlane keeps the result to the on-track performance.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by coppice

No , not at all, I am fine with any change for the right reason but don't welcome it for its own sake. I don't venture to Europe to watch racing , I have never seen Code 60 before last Sunday - hence my questions . Happy to watch it in action again - and just hope it doesn't spoil the day again...

What little racing I do is mostly in mainland Europe. I've both seen it and experienced it first-hand - that's why I support it so strongly. If you want to review it in action I commend to you any of the Creventic/Hankook endurance series races, lots on Youtube.
To attempt to answer your questions:
- 60 means 60 kph.
- road car speedos are irrelevant although it is possible to have them recalibrated for different tyres and gearing.
- if you compete in a race where Code 60 is used it behoves even the most broke or daft driver to ensure he has an accurate speedo; neither difficult nor expensive.
- the aim is to keep the gaps even; if a gap is obviously closed up then split sector times can be examined. The sanctions will be according to the event's Regulations, could be added time penalty or drive-through etc.
- I don't think anyone has yet proposed it be used in karting.
- it will be subject to the appeals process and judicial system of the organising club and the national ASN - precisely the same as any other infringement.

[coppice]

Many thanks;my Code 36 was my lame Brexit joke BTW .

750MC at Croft this weekend - will it be Code 60 Pt 2 I wonder ?

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The only people who will think code 60 is good are marshals and officials. Nobody who actually races will. It's even a step down from the battenburg.

That's because we like to be safe. And other methods are not achieving that. If as drivers you can clearly demonstrate that we are safe without it, then we'll all be in favour of that. And after all, if we don't feel safe, then it delays us getting to you if you need us... Your call.

[Adam43]

I'm for it too.

I see in short races it can lose you a significant chunk of race time. As can any neutralising the race, such as safety car, or even stopping a race. Localised yellows were all that was used in the past. This has changed because safety is considered more highly now, those 1:100 chances of something going wrong now have to be 1:10000 or less.

Nothing is ideal in these situations. This is OK.

[Akrapovic]

If drivers properly obeyed yellow flags and "slowed down and prepared to stop" then there would be no need for a Code 60. However it's become acceptable for drivers to go full chat through yellow zones now, even setting PBs without punishment, because it's hard to judge what is too fast.

If people were responsible and took the safety of the marshals seriously, it would not be needed. A code 60 should also be quicker than a Safety Car because you can deploy and retract it quicker.

[Lancsbreaker]

Just to add that our newly purchased GPS speedo cost about £30 from Amazon - its about the cheapest thing I've ever had to buy for racing......

Tested in road car and now wired up and ready for action in the race car - hope I'll only need it for pitlane speed limits....

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

If drivers properly obeyed yellow flags and "slowed down and prepared to stop" then there would be no need for a Code 60. However it's become acceptable for drivers to go full chat through yellow zones now, even setting PBs without punishment, because it's hard to judge what is too fast.

If people were responsible and took the safety of the marshals seriously, it would not be needed. A code 60 should also be quicker than a Safety Car because you can deploy and retract it quicker.

Actual Incident:

Car hit a flag point and carried away the "protective" tyre barrier.
Incident covered by local yellows on two sectors, most drivers circulating and behaving themselves.
Marshals on one side of track working to restore barrier.
Rocket Scientist decides to do a practice start about 15 feet from my legs.
Radio report to CoC
Driver called up to the tower to face the music.
Driver apologised after being threatened with exclusion from the meeting.

[grumpy52]

From what I have read and understand employment of Code 60 in a normal club race for more than half the race time or laps is a ridiculous situation, it is no longer a race but a parade of cars .
The running of many meetings could do with a major tightening up .
Unnecessary course car or circuit tours , delays in dispatching recovery vehicles also slow loading and the time taken for returning cars to the paddock or pits . Not having following races ready to go to circuit .
Winners parade laps and unnecessary full circuit laps after a crossing the finnish line could all be looked at .
Competitors want to race and spectators want to watch racing not empty tracks or a 60 kph display of cars .
Having the decision makers monitoring the live racing at all times certainly speeds up the process.
This hiccup happens every decade as the systems get overloaded with slack .
And might I suggest the total waste of time and space called the Incedent board be finally put to good use and used as fuel at the end of meeting BBQ .

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

[AdrianM]

How many of the delays you point out are the fault of competitors rather than the circuit and/or officials though?

I've lost count of the number of times my series has been called to the assembly area but drivers are still sitting around eating in their street clothes rather than suited up ready to go. It's not rocket science to work out the time band in which you're going to be called and be ready.

Not to mention that a lot of the delays in the race themselves are from people not paying attention to the flags. I watched several races at Brands last year where yellow and even red flags were out for several corners before the majority of the field even noticed them.

Same thing happened in the one race I saw with Code 60. Some drivers saw the flag and obeyed, others just shot by them and then sorting out who should be where delayed things even more.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by grumpy52

From what I have read and understand employment of Code 60 in a normal club race for more than half the race time or laps is a ridiculous situation, it is no longer a race but a parade of cars .

So how is it different in that respect from the Safety Car?

The running of many meetings could do with a major tightening up .
Unnecessary course car or circuit tours , delays in dispatching recovery vehicles also slow loading and the time taken for returning cars to the paddock or pits . Not having following races ready to go to circuit .
Winners parade laps and unnecessary full circuit laps after a crossing the finnish line could all be looked at .

It's so easy running a race meeting!

Course cars are needed to pick up written reports. Loading may often appear slow for a variety of reasons - a good recovery team will take care to ensure that, no matter how badly damaged the car, it suffers no further damage during the recovery operation.

And might I suggest the total waste of time and space called the Incedent board be finally put to good use and used as fuel at the end of meeting BBQ .

If by "incedent" (sic) board you mean the hazard board, its purpose is, to quote the Blue Book, "awarning of a hazard that was not present when the practice/race commenced." Arguably, if the hazard board were not available more yellow flags would have to be used.

It would help if more drivers knew what it is. . .

[MGDavid]

Good grief; in 15 years of racing I don't think I've ever seen a Hazard board
In what way is it different from a stationary yellow left hanging out when something remains after an incident has been dealt with and the fuss has died down.

[kipper]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

Good grief; in 15 years of racing I don't think I've ever seen a Hazard board
In what way is it different from a stationary yellow left hanging out when something remains after an incident has been dealt with and the fuss has died down.

A hazard board is merely advisory and are intended to keep racers aware of changes in circumstances (an example being a car that has pulled off into a reasonable position, the driver is out of the car, and that there are no marshals trackside). As a hazard board is being used you can pass it at full racing speed, overtake, etc, which of course differs from a yellow flag. Hazard boards are used fairly frequently - although how visible they are is a debatable point.

[ofarc]

Hi all,

Interesting read about how you all perceive Code 60 to be. My company has created a device called SpeedMarshal, more details can be found on our website www.speedmarshal.com

This device allows the driver to see what speed they are doing by a Driver Indicator System inside the cockpit. This is a GPS device and would be activated by the driver when the Code 60 flag comes out. It will also display externally on the cars a warning light system on the rear and side of cars. If the car is over 60kph the lights will flash, if at or below 60kph then the light system is a static on. The light system will also aid other drivers who might not have seen the Code 60 flags being waved, and alert them to look at flag posts. When the green flag is deployed then the driver simply accelerates and the device turns off automatically when the car passes a certain speed.

In the UK most pit lane speed limits are also 60kph, and again this device can be activated making pit lane speeding a thing of the past.

It also has two other neat safety features. Static start warning system, and breakdown warning system. On a standing start all cars would have their rear rain light flashing yellow. If the car gets away and above 15 kph, the light goes off, but if the car does not get away, the lights stays flashing. This will help reduce start line crash accidents seen every week.

If the car slows such as having a puncture and is limping back to the pits then the rear rain light flashes yellow if the speed is below 40 kph. Imagine a car that has stopped on track, it would be hard to judge what is going on when racing, a flashing warning light makes that judgment far easier and safer. Again another safety feature.

Code 60 has many advantages for both endurance and sprint races. I witnessed a race in Holland run by the DNRT. A car had got beached on a kerb, the Code 60 flag came out, the drivers really do obey the flag (they also do use our system), within 40 seconds the car had been recovered, and racing had started again. If a SC had been deployed, it would have taken at least 3 laps for it to gather all the cars in a snake, recover the beached car and get racing underway. In a 15 minute sprint race that could be 3-8 minutes depending on the length of the track. That is a fair amount of race time lost.

Please check out our system

Many thanks for reading.

SPEEDMARSHAL.COM

[MGDavid]

We can well do without another motorsport 'tax' thanks. I note there's no mention of likely costs, nor how it copes with the known inaccuracy of GPS when moving other than in a level straight line (La Source and Brussels come immediately to mind). I've raced under Code 60 several times in Europe and it works well as it is, you just look at the speedometer.

[The Fat Clerk]

All a bit irrelevant now any way, I think CSCC are the only club that use this system. So I wouldn't waste my money.

[Lancsbreaker]

I presume this advertising post was authorised?

[S griffin]

Well if it wasn’t it would have been pulled by now

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

I presume this advertising post was authorised?

The OP was reported, but obviously deemed of little interest to tenthers, so not pulled. As The Fat Clark says, virtually irrelevant in the UK club racing world.....