Where is Car Racing Headed

[tux]

Just wait. in 2030 they'll be saying "Where are we going to store all these batteries"

[GORDON STREETER]

A friend of mine is serious about having an electric motor fitted in his S2 Elan

[one five five]

Originally Posted by Maggo

Why should all car racing be electric?

It shouldn’t

Any touring car series should though if that is where the car market heads

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

A friend of mine is serious about having an electric motor fitted in his S2 Elan

Wasn't there a programme on the tele recently (I didn't watch it) that had them converting a VW Karmann-Ghia to electric? Made me turn green (not with envy).... I have a soft spot for them, my first car at age 19 was a K-G......

[Adam43]

Cool first car.
Those and beetles and 911s have a big EV conversion market, especially in California.

If I had an old Beetle (it’s way down the list) I’m up for it being EV. Not sure about the other two.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Unfortunately I don't think that the comparison of ICE powered racing with horses and sail boats is the same. Both were replaced because the new form of propulsion was more efficient/more powerful, so they could continue to be used for sport & recreation. ICE are being replaced/phased out because they're dirty/bad for the environment/using up unrenewable resources etc. It think that politically there will be a lot of opposition if they are used (basically) as rich peoples playthings. As a life-long petrol head this makes me very sad, but being in my mid-sixties now, when it does finally stop, hopefully I will have plenty of memories of how it used to be (if my memory still works!).

ICEs can be run with renewable fuels as well, though.

[V8 Fireworks]

DTM blinks first and unveils DTM Electric for 2023:


Onboard with Abt: https://youtu.be/IfOUpjpXnOc?t=324
(The test car is actually this modified Audi production touring car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeXZs_XAmME )

They will feature 1000-1200hp, AWD and contest 30-min sprint races (it is unclear if the sprint races require a battery swap). Racing weight has not been mentioned that I can find (presume 2.5+ tonnes?).

Initial signs of manufacturer interest seem to be very positive!

Will Supercars follow suit?

If so, when should Supercar go electric? 2023? 2024? 2025?

A missed opportunity to not get ahead of the curve and go electric with Gen 3 in 2021?

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

A friend of mine is serious about having an electric motor fitted in his S2 Elan

Here is an electric Ferrari 308: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gad0z2NuSCA

Sacrilege given the 3.0L V8 is the highlight of the whole car? I think so, but there it is... a Ferrari EV (with a lot more power than the original).

[ford71]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

A missed opportunity to not get ahead of the curve and go electric with Gen 3 in 2021?

Come on.
The series has been dealt blow after blow and you think its a good time to rip out the V8s and replace with elecs and batteries?

Would be dead before you could say "Recharge me!"

[tux]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

DTM blinks first and unveils DTM Electric for 2023:


Onboard with Abt: https://youtu.be/IfOUpjpXnOc?t=324
(The test car is actually this modified Audi production touring car: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeXZs_XAmME )

They will feature 1000-1200hp, AWD and contest 30-min sprint races (it is unclear if the sprint races require a battery swap). Racing weight has not been mentioned that I can find (presume 2.5+ tonnes?).

Initial signs of manufacturer interest seem to be very positive!

Will Supercars follow suit?

If so, when should Supercar go electric? 2023? 2024? 2025?

A missed opportunity to not get ahead of the curve and go electric with Gen 3 in 2021?



Here is an electric Ferrari 308: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gad0z2NuSCA

Sacrilege given the 3.0L V8 is the highlight of the whole car? I think so, but there it is... a Ferrari EV (with a lot more power than the original).

It clearly is very impressive but i dunno, i just dont care about it. It doesn't make me want to watch it. Maybe im boring.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Casper

Not in any series I have raced in but maybe your racing experience is different to mine.

Yes it is.

Unless the cost is so low it's still worthwhile (Like in Excels), people don't like spending the same amount of money to run at the back as the guys winning do. That's why spec series don't really maintain big numbers over a period of time.

No inbuilt power advantage shifts the point of advantage somewhere else, and the costs of that will increase.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

Yes it is.

Unless the cost is so low it's still worthwhile (Like in Excels), people don't like spending the same amount of money to run at the back as the guys winning do. That's why spec series don't really maintain big numbers over a period of time.

No inbuilt power advantage shifts the point of advantage somewhere else, and the costs of that will increase.

Spec series fail because every new entrant thinks it is a fair way to go racing and they soon find out it isn't.

[Tourer]

So putting aside questions around what kind of powerplants get used, a new body, Australian Motorsport Council has been established by the FIA / FIM recognised sanctioning bodies in Australia.

By representing the sport to governments and others, the new body MAY have some influence on where Car Racing is headed (as well as bikes, karts and drag racing of course).

[codename_47]

Originally Posted by tux

It clearly is very impressive but i dunno, i just dont care about it. It doesn't make me want to watch it. Maybe im boring.

Would you rather Electric Racing or no racing at all?

For me, competittive racing is why I'm here, it's not the noise made by the cars.
I want to see them race two or more abreast not just roar around loudly for loudness sake

Plus don't forget that initial USP that lured us all to the sport as a child, the fact it was seen as risky, exciting and, lets face it, cutting edge.
A lot of people will watch for the latest developments in technology.

I really wish there was a series out there that said: "Ok, here's a bespoke open wheel chasis. No pollution from the engines. Otherwise, when it comes to powering it: Knock yourself out
Electric? Hydrogen? Hell, Solar Power? Give it a go, see what works, we'll have fun watching you try and who knows, we might even make the world a better place at the end of the day as we stress test these new technologies.
Maybe we won't too, but it'll be a lot of fun trying.

One day someone will be brave enough to do this....one day.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by codename_47

Plus don't forget that initial USP that lured us all to the sport as a child, the fact it was seen as risky, exciting and, lets face it, cutting edge.

You are talking about V8 Supercars, right?

A Ford Falcon with a live rear axle, a cast iron pushrod V8 and flames out the side... I don't think cutting edge played any kind of part TBH. A Ford Falcon with some racing upgrades more like, and that was fine:


The cutting-edge tin top technology was more to be found here with tricky diffs galore and turbochargers and so on:

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

so we have several posts talking about Supercars needing to adopt electric, TCR's model etc etc.

Yet Supercars currently have more people wanting entries than available (i.e REC is worth good money again) and new rules for the next generation car which will feature a V8 engine with ability to upgrade in future to include a power regeneration unit. New TV deal which pays teams money to race, something no other racing series in Australia achieves. New Sponsors for naming rights of series plus many new sponsors on cars. Things look rosy to me at moment.

Seems to me that Supercars are set for the next 5 years on a clear path. Beyond well that's anyone's guess.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

so we have several posts talking about Supercars needing to adopt electric, TCR's model etc etc.

Yet Supercars currently have more people wanting entries than available (i.e REC is worth good money again) and new rules for the next generation car which will feature a V8 engine with ability to upgrade in future to include a power regeneration unit. New TV deal which pays teams money to race, something no other racing series in Australia achieves. New Sponsors for naming rights of series plus many new sponsors on cars. Things look rosy to me at moment.

Seems to me that Supercars are set for the next 5 years on a clear path. Beyond well that's anyone's guess.

So what cars are going to have the V8 in them for the next five years. Remember the present cars are some years old already and will be irrelevant as far as representing current cars that are available in the local car yard. Any alternative motor is a fantasy at this time and would be a PR disaster if nothing else and I am a fan of BEV racing due to its simplicity and easily controlled power parity.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

they are going to use a mustang and camaro. Possible a BMW or KIA.

If those cars disappears they probably just use what ever body NASCAR is using. Simple solved.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

tPossible a BMW or KIA.

If those cars disappears they probably just use what ever body NASCAR is using. Simple solved.

Possibly maybe and whatever should fix the whole problem..... I don't think. Best of luck with that!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Casper

So what cars are going to have the V8 in them for the next five years. Remember the present cars are some years old already and will be irrelevant as far as representing current cars that are available in the local car yard. Any alternative motor is a fantasy at this time and would be a PR disaster if nothing else and I am a fan of BEV racing due to its simplicity and easily controlled power parity.

The hard questions never get addressed by either the fans or the management. The electric Mustang is here and the presumption is the Mustang as we know it won't be here for much longer. They didn't re-brand the car into an electric version for the good of us racing fans it was done to carry Ford into the new BEV era. Camaro won't in all likelihood won't come back to this country anyway after the last effort basically failed and in production terms has no life left in it anyway so any relevance to a car available here has been thrown out the window and this was the exact premise the series has always been based on.

[Oldtony]

Post WW11 Touring car racing in Australia originated with many of the cars being ex Taxis.
Cheapest vehicle you could get hold of to modify and usually not as old and rusted as other cars reaching their economic life span.
Even before the Geoghan and Myer Holdens there were Ford V8s and even more early 40s Dodge 6's.
Can someone look up the Mt Druitt records for a 42 Dodge with the then tell tale ex-cab paint job of black with orange guards.
They filled the need for cheap and frequently spectacular racing.
Tongue in cheek may I suggest we sart a series for ex-cab Prius.
Ticks all the boxes from a cost and tradition basis

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by Casper

Possibly maybe and whatever should fix the whole problem..... I don't think. Best of luck with that!

Yet its just been confirmed recently that the Camaro will still be in production till atleast 2026 now.

And GMSV is highly likely to bring it out to Australia at a lower price than here before. Why they bringing it back? Partially to do with the fact its going to be the marquee's car in Supercars i.e fans will want to buy it.

That's at least 5 years worth of life left in Supercars.

[Casper]

Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Originally Posted by Casper

Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/

Just out of interest what are you proposing they do? It needs to affordable, cost effective and interests teams/ drivers. But most importantly something mainstream fans will watch or go to.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Casper

Good news but what happens after that? Remember change needs lead time so at about the three year mark from now a decision has to be made. Relying on these two models can't go on forever and five years is a very short span of time. In effect they can stick their head in the sand and ignore the problem for perhaps 3 years but it will still be there. The car market is changing but no one is listening.

This won't affect what cars are produced in the US will it.

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2020/09/23/go...limate-change/

What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Tourer

What happens after that? Well, that's three years away that a decision HAS to be made and hopefully one will be made and communicated before then but it doesn't need to be now. As we start to see new models coming out (reportedly hybrids as well as electric only) over the next couple of years, I think that potential paths are likely to become more obvious.

Supercars can bandaid for a while and in some ways already have been given the Mustang v Camaro rivalry that we're heading for. GT3-style cars will probably still be around once that's done and I imagine that'll be an easy if not especially visionary step to make. And besides, I can't exactly see Australia leading the charge in banning the combustion engine.

The problem is really what you want long term. One day the ICE won't be in any road car and the question is where you want to be when that happens. Racing without them is a strange thought, I agree, but I think that's where we're heading outside of the niche and short tracks.