[Driver] Lewis Hamilton Champion

[Peter Mallett]

He's a great driver but a complete tit.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He's a great driver but a complete tit.

I wouldn't go quite that far as to his driving, but I do think that he is a very good driver. Just not great.

Unfortunately, tits are useful to humanity; not something that I would ascribe to Hamilton.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

He's a great driver but a complete tit.

I wouldn't call him a complete tit, that's harsh. He's unfortunately, adopted a pop star image, a long with some of the negative aspects of that image, which in the world of motorsport grates and is somewhat cringeworthy. Unfortunately, he doesn't see it.

[chillibowl]

to be honest, i dont see it either.

fair enough if you dont respect that lifestyle or the fashion sense of the multi million dollar athlete, but surely even in that light, LH's demeanor and activities are pretty trivial compared to much of the salacious behaviour we as a society have become accustomed to seeing from other over privileged and/or overpaid sports stars.

that said, i will also tolerate his behaviour less the day he stops winning!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

to be honest, i dont see it either.

fair enough if you dont respect that lifestyle or the fashion sense of the multi million dollar athlete, but surely even in that light, LH's demeanor and activities are pretty trivial compared to much of the salacious behaviour we as a society have become accustomed to seeing from other over privileged and/or overpaid sports stars.

that said, i will also tolerate his behaviour less the day he stops winning!

It's nothing to do with respecting, or not respecting the lifestyle/fashion sense of a multi million dollar athlete. I'm not wowed by status or celebrity. It's the negative aspects I don't care for, for example the crowd surfing at Silverstone. Call me old fashioned but I found that to be inappropriate and cringeworthy.

[bella]

what chilli said. some of you chaps come across as very poor at empathy, tolerance and appreciation. you all project your values and ideas of a good time onto others, and berate them for daring to have a bit of fun with their personal style. some of you seem to think there's only one way to conduct yourself, and to work with others, and only one type of racing driver who deserves to be treated like a hero.

whatever. congratulations to lewis, for both maintaining his identity, for daring to continue to *live* at the same time as being a sportsman at the peak of his performance and achievements. and congratulations to mercedes for keeping their heads down and beating ferrari. everyone behind the scenes works just as hard as the guys at the back of the grid, nobody is freewheeling it regardless of what the results may say.

[Peter Mallett]

Agreed. He's still a tit.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Someone cant say that a set of fans are great these days, without someone with a keyboard slating them for it.

The problem comes when you describe multiple nationalities of fans on consecutive weekends in absolute terms, it smacks of insincerity and builds resentment! The 17th time in a row this happens ....

[chillibowl]

you're right...he should rank them instead.

im sure that would go over well.

[wnut]

[Graz]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Welcome to the real world, where this happens EVERYWHERE. It is the current way of the world. I'll reserve judgement on his personality if/when I meet him and make a proper assessment.


And just a correction - the fans do not 'fund' his lifestyle any more than the man on the street pays yours. He is paid by Mercedes and has sponsorship deals (which pay for his salary indirectly). Just like every other top sportsman, and indeed you. If you look deep enough.

It interesting, but if people like LH or any top flight sportsman were not making money for the team, then they wouldn't be paid what they are. The team makes more money from them than they make themselves.

I have to disagree. Of course the fans fund his lifestyle, same as they do every sportsman. Mercedes only pay him because there is a market base of fans there that make it viable for them to do so. Without merchandising, sky subscriptions and merely people turning up, there would be no multi million pound sportsmen and women. Why do you think all the manufacturers are in F1, for the craic? Look at what Sky can give the Premier League. Why? Because of subscriptions - by fans. Who therefore fund the footballers 250k a week. Same as F1, same as any sport. The money comes from the fans.

Without the fans, Mercedes wouldn't see F1 as a viable marketing tool and wouldn't be there. Wouldn't be paying drivers and wouldn't be making money off them. It starts with the fans. Without them, there is no wealth in sport. It's just sport, same as a load of lads kicking a ball around in the park every Sunday.

You also don't have to meet someone to form a view as to whether you like them or not.

[Skam85]

Correct. No fans = no money for races/Pay TV = no races = no F1.

[Mike Harte]

Except that in the UK at present, F1 on SKY is the equivalent of a loss leader. Whether that changes when it is no longer available live on FTA in twelve months remains to be seen.

[Skam85]

We're about to lose it on FTA in Australia too after slowly phasing it out over the years - there's no way I'm missing out on F1 though, so Foxtel it is. No regrets.

Anyway, Hamilton.
Very good driver, can't dispute that. Slightly overrated in some corners but four titles are four titles (even though he has been beaten by Button & Rosberg).

I just cannot bring myself to like him as a person. Pretty much everything he does just irks me.

Seb's four titles are comparable to Lewis', as well as his missed titles.

2007 - Lewis/McLaren fluffed it
2017 - Seb/Ferrari fluffed it

2011, 2013/2014, 2015 - Seb/Lewis had dominant cars and took care of their teammates to the title.

2010&2012/2017 - Seb/Lewis earn a hard-fought title win despite strong opposition.

Only difference really is Lewis' 2008 title, won somewhat fortuitously.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Graz

I have to disagree. Of course the fans fund his lifestyle, same as they do every sportsman. Mercedes only pay him because there is a market base of fans there that make it viable for them to do so. Without merchandising, sky subscriptions and merely people turning up, there would be no multi million pound sportsmen and women. Why do you think all the manufacturers are in F1, for the craic? Look at what Sky can give the Premier League. Why? Because of subscriptions - by fans. Who therefore fund the footballers 250k a week. Same as F1, same as any sport. The money comes from the fans.

Without the fans, Mercedes wouldn't see F1 as a viable marketing tool and wouldn't be there. Wouldn't be paying drivers and wouldn't be making money off them. It starts with the fans. Without them, there is no wealth in sport. It's just sport, same as a load of lads kicking a ball around in the park every Sunday.

You also don't have to meet someone to form a view as to whether you like them or not.

You really could not be more wrong. The fans mean nothing to Mercedes - how many fans do you think buy brand new Mercedes road cars?
The MB marketing is to people who can afford new Mercs and are influenced by advertising the success, technology, reliability and engineering that F1 bestows on the brand.

[Greem]

Each and every time someone mentions Lewis, whether they're a hater, an admirer, rabidly in love or totally indifferent 'Brand Hamilton' gets a push along the road.

Proclaiming love or hate for him, or dislike, or admiration, or whatever - it all means he's being talked about. Being talked about means TV coverage, press footage, column inches, lifestyle pieces, appearances on chat shows, special guest stuff in recording studios - and it all, every bit of it, adds to the $$$ he's earning.

When you whinge, listen to the cash registers ring

Not that he's going to read this, but well done, young man. Keep it up.

[S griffin]

Let's just let him live his own life. He's shown himself to be very exciting on track and that's saying something. I personally enjoyed the crowd surf at Silverstone, as it shows he interacts with the public

[Graz]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

You really could not be more wrong. The fans mean nothing to Mercedes - how many fans do you think buy brand new Mercedes road cars?
The MB marketing is to people who can afford new Mercs and are influenced by advertising the success, technology, reliability and engineering that F1 bestows on the brand.

You could not be more wrong and are missing the point. Clearly all fans don't drive Mercs. BUT the fans give the platform for them to advertise to those who do. So you guys are saying that if F1 existed like a clubbie series, Mercedes would still be involved and paying billions to show their tech prowess? To whom and why? Professional sport only exists if there is a means to finance it and make money from it. This is driven by audience (fans). This gives them the financial means to bother. Why does it cost 100m a year or whatever to host a race? Because fans at the race and watching on TV will pay. A large cut of this goes to the teams who can then pay their drivers 50m a year.

Film success is judged by box office attendance. Whether the movie is any good or not is secondary. The success is driven by fans paying for it. Tom Hanks would be paid nothing, like any amateur actor if nobody paid to watch. Fans pay.

If a sport has a low fan base, it has no money in it. If everyone stopped paying for sky subscriptions, the PL would collapse for example. Because fans no longer fund it. Sky couldn't pay 5bn for the rights and the teams couldn't pay the players who would go elsewhere to where the money is - like Serie A in the late 80s and early 90s.

If attendance and audience in F1 dropped to zero, Merc et al would be gone like a shot. TV companies won't pay for nothing. ESPN have paid 400m for the 2018 World Cup assuming the US will be there. They won't and ESPN are worried now because there will be a much reduced audience of fans making it look likely this 400 plus profit will not be recouped. There is no way ESPN would pay that if they knew in advance the US would be there.

It's all dependent on those who ultimately funds it - the fans through attendance, subscriptions, merchandising, following on social media so sucking in advertisers who now have a market for these millions of followers who are now a conduit for generating more money. I'm taking my son to a GP next year, tickets alone will cost about 600 quid. A local clubbie event costs me a tenner. Why does it cost 600? Because the circuit needs to recoup their enormous outlay - from the fans. The fee the circuit has paid goes to Liberty and the Teams (incl. drivers). If fans don't go, the circuits can't pay and the money for Liberty and the teams and drivers is not there. Ignoring merchandising, TV subscriptions and social media advertising.

If nobody was interested i.e. a fan, there would be no money. It's beyond obvious.

[GTRMagic]

You don’t have to be the first owner of a Mercedes Benz to acquire an affinity with the F1 operation...

Plenty of vans & trucks in the range... new & used...

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

You really could not be more wrong. The fans mean nothing to Mercedes - how many fans do you think buy brand new Mercedes road cars?
The MB marketing is to people who can afford new Mercs and are influenced by advertising the success, technology, reliability and engineering that F1 bestows on the brand.

You are missing the point - and assuming that Mercedes' involvement in F1 is for the sole purpose of selling brand new cars from forecourts.

In 2016, running the F1 team cost Daimler AG just 30million. In return they received a massive amount of exposure and marketing, along with a significant amount of R&D return that they are already transferring into their road cars.
The marketing is designed to not only sell new cars, but also used and encourage existing owners to continue to use the main dealer facilities.

Someone with a >5yr old MB may find that the results they see on the track enhances the reputation of official MB support - and so encourage them to take their car into their dealer networks.

There's a reason why the back page in a W202 MB service logbook provides you with the part no for the 180,000 - 360,000 logbook. They expect you to still be returning to the dealer for servicing.

[bella]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

You really could not be more wrong. The fans mean nothing to Mercedes - how many fans do you think buy brand new Mercedes road cars?
The MB marketing is to people who can afford new Mercs and are influenced by advertising the success, technology, reliability and engineering that F1 bestows on the brand.

not entirely. you've listed the things that sell mercedes to *you*, which is all well and good but it functions on more levels than that. even the "poor" fans are free billboards and free viral marketing. people pay to wear mercedes branding and show it off all over social media. when some of those fans are able to afford mercedes cars (relatively easy to do with a lease scheme) that'll be what they'll do over a renault or a ford.

mercedes sell a vast majority of their cars through lease schemes nowadays. how many fairly low spec a classes do you see driving around? their profile in f1 and employment of hamilton has basically cemented their position as an aspirational brand, especially with those not so bothered about peak handling, but more about how comfortable and well styled they are.

it's like fashion brands selling handbags. you get the cheap mini versions that allow the younger customers a gateway into the brand. that satisfies the sense of belonging and feeling of privilege and wealth. build quality doesn't really matter at that level, the people buying that kind of product doesn't know the difference...

i love the way that each and every one of us who have gone "au contraire, sir" have given a totally different reason as to why. that in itself proves the point.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Graz

You could not be more wrong and are missing the point. Clearly all fans don't drive Mercs. BUT the fans give the platform for them to advertise to those who do. So you guys are saying that if F1 existed like a clubbie series, Mercedes would still be involved and paying billions to show their tech prowess? To whom and why? Professional sport only exists if there is a means to finance it and make money from it. This is driven by audience (fans). This gives them the financial means to bother. Why does it cost 100m a year or whatever to host a race? Because fans at the race and watching on TV will pay. A large cut of this goes to the teams who can then pay their drivers 50m a year.

Film success is judged by box office attendance. Whether the movie is any good or not is secondary. The success is driven by fans paying for it. Tom Hanks would be paid nothing, like any amateur actor if nobody paid to watch. Fans pay.

If a sport has a low fan base, it has no money in it. If everyone stopped paying for sky subscriptions, the PL would collapse for example. Because fans no longer fund it. Sky couldn't pay 5bn for the rights and the teams couldn't pay the players who would go elsewhere to where the money is - like Serie A in the late 80s and early 90s.

If attendance and audience in F1 dropped to zero, Merc et al would be gone like a shot. TV companies won't pay for nothing. ESPN have paid 400m for the 2018 World Cup assuming the US will be there. They won't and ESPN are worried now because there will be a much reduced audience of fans making it look likely this 400 plus profit will not be recouped. There is no way ESPN would pay that if they knew in advance the US would be there.

It's all dependent on those who ultimately funds it - the fans through attendance, subscriptions, merchandising, following on social media so sucking in advertisers who now have a market for these millions of followers who are now a conduit for generating more money. I'm taking my son to a GP next year, tickets alone will cost about 600 quid. A local clubbie event costs me a tenner. Why does it cost 600? Because the circuit needs to recoup their enormous outlay - from the fans. The fee the circuit has paid goes to Liberty and the Teams (incl. drivers). If fans don't go, the circuits can't pay and the money for Liberty and the teams and drivers is not there. Ignoring merchandising, TV subscriptions and social media advertising.

If nobody was interested i.e. a fan, there would be no money. It's beyond obvious.

Absolutely. If anyone needs reminding how important the fan base is, just look at what happened to IndyCar over the last 20 years. Even post unification, the series was practically on its knees; poor track attendance, sponsors coming and going, TV coverage reduced to cable and teams folding. However, it has survived, the 500 hundred has obviously played a major roll but one race doesn't make a series. IndyCar is still not out of the woods, though it's in much better shape than it was because IndyCar had to reconnect with the fans.

A major issue with fans has been the car, but the initial response to the 2018 car being very favourable, plus the series is returning to venues that were traditionally at the heart of AOWR. TV coverage is better than it was, attracting viewers, as well as advertisers and sponsors, though there is still a lot of room for improvement. IndyCar is slowly beginning to resemble what it used to be like in the early '90s, before the CART/IRL split but this wouldn't be happening without the fans.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Graz

You could not be more wrong and are missing the point. Clearly all fans don't drive Mercs.
And even if they do, they being knowledgable know that F1 and road cars don't really connect. However the 99% non-fans who just see the advertising afterwards are influenced by it.

Professional sport only exists if there is a means to finance it and make money from it. This is driven by audience (fans).
Not in F1 it's not. Have you ever studied Bernie's cost model? The lever is Corporate Hospitality, not ordinary 'fans' which is why Bernie has always been contemptuous of them.

Why does it cost 100m a year or whatever to host a race? Because fans at the race and watching on TV will pay.
No it's not; the hosting fee is mostly paid by Governments / public purse

Fans pay.
Peanuts in the grand scale of F1 finance.

If a sport .....
If attendance .....
I'm ignoring 'Ifs'

It's all dependent on those who ultimately funds it -
agreed
Why does it cost 600? Because the circuit needs to recoup their enormous outlay -
Pretty much the only GP financed in this way is the British; the vast majority are paid for by Government / public purse because Countries have been 'sold' the glamour by Bernie. Look at the GPs that have fallen by the wayside, because what you have described doesn't work.

If nobody was interested i.e. a fan,...
that's a non sequitur.
Or maybe instead of all the above I should just have said 'define fan' because I think we would be poles apart on that definition.

10 characters

[chunder]

Well, if anyone thought he was going to be a Sir

It appears Paradise has scuppered that thought! lol

[ASCII Man]

I doubt it as the Queen herself is listed in those papers.