San Jose to be cancelled?

[indycool]

http://www.montereyherald.com/search...nclick_check=1

http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci...nclick_check=1

[Tim Northcutt]

Originally Posted by Dutton

Good stuff.

Piggy-backing is one way to get schedule stability, combined with the series getting out to more eyes.

I am in favour of this.

Grand Am will benefit more than Champ Car from getting "more eyes" at the event.

Why???

Because Grand Am doesn't draw flies, let alone crowds, at virtually all of its events....dedicated sportscar fans do not like the NASCAR version of sportscar racing

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Yes, another Great Moment in American Open Wheel Racing! When you cancel 3 events in one season and then piggy-back onto the NASCAR-sponsored Grand-Am series to secure a date, why boy and howdy you are on top of the world!

Strange John, no one mentioned anything about being on top of the world.

ChampCar on a permanent circuit, a race track with open wheel history I think is a positive thing.

Seems odd, that they have gone with Grand Am as opposed with the ALMS who they have had much more of a relationship with.

[mountainstar]

There isn't much choice in that laguna has a limited number of noisy days allowed.

I wonder if this signals the end of the street festival strategy. It seems the expense of temporary circuits and dealing with external factors like politicians and construction may not be worth it.

One ray of hope may be airport races. You don't have the noise issues, construction, blocking of streets, dealing with locals etc.

[paul-collins]

Ah, but dealing with the FAA is a royal pain as well, Mountainstar...

IMO, this move - I won't call it a strategy, the "leaders" haven't earned that level of confidence - could, and should, be a better long term move. I know people have always thought that bringing it to the streets was an overall money winner - and that may be true when you've got a sugardaddy like Molson or tht Toyota Dealers' Association - but for longevity, nothing beats going to dedicated facilities that don't have major setup costs.

The annual budget to run San Jose was said to be $10m by its organizers, in context of the $4m subsidy - that probably downplays the cost. I'd guess the track rental at Laguna is in the area of $2m, and split that between two series... Tack on your operational expenses - primarily PR and advertising, as you no longer need to pay for venue setup and logistics - and I'd bet you're still looking at a $6 to $7 million in savings.

What percentage of San Jose's turnout do you need at Laguna to cover costs? 30%? If the ALMS can draw 60k+ for their weekend, I think a properly promoted CC race could easily do 30-40k out of the gate.

Steelback, by the way, is already the official beer of Mosport.

[Rich D]

Originally Posted by paul-collins

Steelback, by the way, is already the official beer of Mosport.

Ahh, somebody thinking the same way I do!

[stradlin21]

another champ car race cancelled??

what can I say?

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Yes, another Great Moment in American Open Wheel Racing! When you cancel 3 events in one season and then piggy-back onto the NASCAR-sponsored Grand-Am series to secure a date, why boy and howdy you are on top of the world!

If this was in response to what I wrote, then I think you have gone completely off the deep-end and hugely misunderstood/intentionally-misrepresented what I was getting at. I am far from suggesting this is some kind of absolutely magnificent occurance that indicates CC is poised to take the world by storm, or any such other unnecessary hyperbole.

I just think running an event at Laguna Seca is better than at SJ. So GA has zero crowds and this joining will benefit them more than CC? Fine. The fact is it will be the CC crowd plus some who will be there for the GA. That equals more eyes. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

The simply reality is that CC joining up with events like this improves event stability, which is rather important for CC atm. You quite rightly deride the number of cancellations CC is facing atm, but yet wholeheartedly attack a solution that improves said stability.

The bottom line is we are switching from a shakey, expensive, street course to a solid, classic, permanent facility where there will be more than CC-devotees present. I happen to think this LS deal is preferable to the SJ one.

You are welcome to think differently, but there is no need to be so melodramatic about it.

[luke]

Fantastic news that Laguna Seca is back!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/62282

[mountainstar]

For the fans it appears to be a winner to have Laguna back. People are already booking their travel.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Dutton

I just think running an event at Laguna Seca is better than at SJ. So GA has zero crowds and this joining will benefit them more than CC? Fine. The fact is it will be the CC crowd plus some who will be there for the GA. That equals more eyes. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

One should also not forget that the result of this addition may very well be bigger than the sum of its parts. There might be as well people out there who might not go to CCWS stand-alone neither to GA stand-alone event because the ratio of value to money may not seem quite right. They may come out, though, for both series on a combined date.

[Fogelhund]

Houston, Las Vegas and Portland also may not return next season, possibly leaving Champ Car with as few as three USA events in 2008 as it increases its presence overseas.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor...-changes_N.htm

Here's the truth: If the sanctioning Champ Car organization and chief race backer Don Listwin had wanted the San Jose Grand Prix to continue, it would have. Even if the Almaden Boulevard lot was unavailable, the race course could have been moved to the configuration that was originally announced in 2005.

Honest. It seems developers might eventually erect buildings on vacant street-side properties that are used for bleachers, luxury boxes and other grand prix functions. In one example, the Boston Properties group could construct an office tower in the large Almaden Boulevard parking lot that has held the main grandstand.

Completely true. But it was also completely true three years ago, when the grand prix promoters first committed to San Jose. And as for that alleged Boston Properties project? There was
no confirmation from either the company or the city that ground will be broken on the Almaden Boulevard lot any time soon. Probably because it won't be happening.

In fact, take this prediction to the Pit Stop Bank: that big parking lot will still be a big parking lot next July, when the non-race weekend rolls around.

So why didn't that happen? Listwin and his Canary Foundation grew tired of losing tons of money over the past three years, even with the city subsidy.

http://www.mercurynews.com/markpurdy

[Tony Clifton]

How many event is Dale Jantzen involved with? I count SJ, Phoenix, and Vegas.

[indycool]

Different guys and they're hard to keep straight.

Dale JANTZEN is the San Jose guy.

Dale JENSEN and Brad Yonover are the Vegas/Phoenix guys.

[Purist]

Even IF the worst happens, I still get at least four US events on the 2008 calendar(Road America, Cleveland, Laguna Seca, and Long Beach).

[Dutton]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

One should also not forget that the result of this addition may very well be bigger than the sum of its parts. There might be as well people out there who might not go to CCWS stand-alone neither to GA stand-alone event because the ratio of value to money may not seem quite right. They may come out, though, for both series on a combined date.

I absolutely agree. This is another of the reasons I consider this to be quite an agreeable situation. There will also, I think, be some, in close location, who are interested in the track as a thing in itself that would make the trip.

I know for me to travel into the US for a race meet would require doubling up of some sort.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Dutton

If this was in response to what I wrote, then I think you have gone completely off the deep-end and hugely misunderstood/intentionally-misrepresented what I was getting at. I am far from suggesting this is some kind of absolutely magnificent occurance that indicates CC is poised to take the world by storm, or any such other unnecessary hyperbole."

Simply being sarcastic...

The situation with CC has gotten ridiculous. The "business model" favored the street races with Moto Rock and the "festival" atmosphere. Road course venues were shed like outerwear in a sauna. Now they are running away from the street races back to road courses, and worse, as a support race for Grand Am (imho).

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

The situation with CC has gotten ridiculous. The "business model" favored the street races with Moto Rock and the "festival" atmosphere. Road course venues were shed like outerwear in a sauna. Now they are running away from the street races back to road courses, and worse, as a support race for Grand Am (imho).

Well it is disappointing. I personally believe street races have a lot of merit, but it has appeared the downside the past few years is dealing with changing governments, citizens, logistics, construction, etc. Is it really worth it? If it causes this much disturbance, I don't know.

[mountainstar]

There is no indiction las vegas and houston are leaving and portland is being sorted out.

[NorCal]

Boston Properties group could construct an office tower in the large Almaden Boulevard parking lot that has held the main grandstand.

Complete cop out. The commercial vacancy rate in SJ is way to high to justify new construction. Plus yr 1 was a terrible track, yr 2 not much better and yr 3 a close finish.....too many manholes. It came down to new politions and lack of bond money, free city services, etc. Hopefully, Laguna Seca will get back to the old day racing I remember 10 years ago. 150K+ per weekend with camping and serious race fans.....

[TWK]

San Jose Mercury News sports columnist Mark Purdy:

So what was the spin on things Tuesday? Here is what the promoters and local officials said with a straight face: Downtown San Jose is just too darned dynamic a place to be a long-term home for a street race.

Honest. It seems developers might eventually erect buildings on vacant street-side properties that are used for bleachers, luxury boxes and other grand prix functions. In one example, the Boston Properties group could construct an office tower in the large Almaden Boulevard parking lot that has held the main grandstand.

Completely true. But it was also completely true three years ago, when the grand prix promoters first committed to San Jose. And as for that alleged Boston Properties project? There was no confirmation from either the company or the city that ground will be broken on the Almaden Boulevard lot any time soon. Probably because it won't be happening.

In fact, take this prediction to the Pit Stop Bank: that big parking lot will still be a big parking lot next July, when the non-race weekend rolls around.

The facts are that this was could only survive as long as the city subsidized it. As soon as that was gone, so was the race. The rest is spin, pure and simple.

[NorCal]

I wasn't far off....hopefully we'll hear the turbo @ Laguna next year. After being @ Vegas this year and hearing about the losses from the inaug we will see if CWS makes it even that far???

[indycool]

mountainstar, I don't know about Houston -- first I heard there were questions about it were in USA Today yesterday -- but Vegas is 99% gone. There's no staff there, not even someone to answer the phone; the downtown site is gone to construction of other things and the casinos complaining they lost money because of lack of accesses; Freudenberg has been talking to the Thomas and Mack Center on the UNLV campus for an alternate site and that just can't possibly work; and the promoters lost so much money they'll never get it back.

[Knowlesy]

Nice to see Laguna Seca back, although it does tend to put on some parades.

[mountainstar]

We shall see with vegas.