Martinez replaces Servia - Page 2

mp356a · 24 Sep 2007, 19:29 (Ref:2022007)

This is disgusting news. Really bad form from CC. Do they think that the MX fans actually believe that Martinez is there on talent, that he'll be there next season?
It's an insult to CC fans that we are supposed to accept any reason at all for these, non-performance-related driver changes. Both of the recent drivers that were kicked to the curb were consistently out-driving their teammates.
Sigh, is there a race series anywhere that is worthy? Maybe this internet thing is a curse and we were better off in happy ignorance.
I doubt very much that I will make plans to watch anymore races this year. If I'm home and it's on, fine, but it's difficult to be a fan of a series that will drop a guy like Servia (and Ryan) for nothing more than a big fat lie.
I know, like anyone cares what I think.
Mike

mountainstar · 25 Sep 2007, 01:41 (Ref:2022232)

Wasn't the series it was the team.

I don't think martinez is all that bad really and deserves another chance. I thought he did well last year at Mexico city.

D.R.T. · 25 Sep 2007, 04:56 (Ref:2022266)

Wouldnt it be great if Martinez pulls out a win in one of these final two races.

JohnSSC · 25 Sep 2007, 09:47 (Ref:2022420)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Wasn't the series it was the team.

I don't think martinez is all that bad really and deserves another chance. I thought he did well last year at Mexico city.

So the inability of the Series to attract sponsors is the fault of the individual teams? That is a sort of double-edged sword in Forsythe's case then, isn't it? Not only has he not succeeded in securing sponsorship for the Series, he has also not secured sponsorship for his own team. Obviously he has limited the amount of his own monies he is willing to invest and is now seeking pay drivers for the second seat at Forsythe.

climb · 25 Sep 2007, 11:35 (Ref:2022505)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

So the inability of the Series to attract sponsors ...

And their inability to attract well funded teams as well; if you recruit many poor funded teams (and a team whose very rich owner doesn't want to waste money belongs to this cathegory) have to expect such things to happen often.

That's a shame, but just a pure consequence of it.

climb · 25 Sep 2007, 11:56 (Ref:2022527)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I would look at the positives rather than the negatives. Servia got a opportunity to show what he could do after being left without a ride at the beginning of the season and Martinez gets another well deserved break to show his potential.

Yes but a series is not meant to be a motel with drivers passing by every now and then: stability is a sign of credibolity I reckon

indycool · 25 Sep 2007, 12:23 (Ref:2022554)

The inclusions of Dominguez and Martinez really have nothing to do with the teams or the drivers. IMO, they have to do with CC racing in Mexico. As of yesterday, there was no ticket, support series or event schedule information on the CC website and the Autodromo website didn't have a word about the race.

D.R.T. · 25 Sep 2007, 13:58 (Ref:2022630)

Quote:

Originally Posted by climb

Yes but a series is not meant to be a motel with drivers passing by every now and then: stability is a sign of credibolity I reckon

Nothing in AOW is stable nowdays.

Chip Ganassi had an interesting view of the importance of driver continuity in AOW wheel the other day.

luke · 25 Sep 2007, 14:01 (Ref:2022634)

To those that are saying bad stuff from Champ Car, FACT is the team made the decision. Many are saying Mario is in the team next year, the decision was made for the remaining races as he is likely joining the team next year. The chances anyone get to bash CC! Unbelievable. Shoot down that bandwagon. As for it being driver decision, we all know figge will stay because of his family ties, that seat will never be vacant.

indycool · 25 Sep 2007, 17:59 (Ref:2022823)

IYO, luke. And what about fifth-in-points Servia?

luke · 25 Sep 2007, 19:05 (Ref:2022875)

It's a shame as he is a good driver however the team made that decision. The position was never a full time ride. Servia was just happy he got to drive for a top team for races.

Knowlesy · 25 Sep 2007, 19:15 (Ref:2022887)

Based on his performances it should have become a full time ride, or at least until the end of this season.

But it wasn't allowed to. Why this utterly absurd situation is allowed to occur time and again is beyond me.

luke · 25 Sep 2007, 20:33 (Ref:2022947)

Servia knew it wasn't full time, he knew it was only temporary and it was just a matter of time. Forsythe owed nothing to him lets not forget Servia didn't even have a ride at the start of the year.

indycool · 25 Sep 2007, 21:52 (Ref:2023001)

So, you think the team didn't put Martinez in the car to put a Mexican in to fulfill a CC contract with the promoter? And you think the same with Dominguez at PCM?

D.R.T. · 26 Sep 2007, 01:38 (Ref:2023101)

If it was just to fullfil a CC contract why would PCM, cancel Dalziels contract though as opposed to stepping him aside for one race ?

indycool · 26 Sep 2007, 02:16 (Ref:2023112)

It's very difficult to tell who owes who money and/or favors in CC and who has contracts and what they say.

Fogelhund · 26 Sep 2007, 02:34 (Ref:2023114)

PCM is one of the teams that took the lease deal from the series. They don't own their car... wouldn't be too hard to offer some "incentives" would it?

D.R.T. · 26 Sep 2007, 04:11 (Ref:2023149)

Interesting thoughts, any sources to confirm these 'thoughts'.

But once again, if its for the Mexico race, why would incentives as you put it be used to punt Dalziel full time and not for the final race of the season ?

indycool · 26 Sep 2007, 04:34 (Ref:2023161)

We don't know what the deal was with the Mexico City promoter. For example, I've read several Mexican posters on boards saying that the races weren't available on TV down there. Could TV of the other races be part of the promotional package promised the promoter? Could Mexican drivers for the WHOLE series been part of what was promised the promoter?

Something is going on down there. A post at another forum referred to a newspaper article quoting a promoter rep as saying they're only going to open five grandstands this year and expected about 50,000 on Race Day, which is a far cry from the past. We're 6 1/2 weeks away and the CC website has no information on support races, tickets or event schedule. The Autodromo website makes no reference to the race at all.

This story from a Mexican paper does NOT indicate Dominguez is signed for next year, too.

http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/deportes/94850.html

And Robin Miller's commentary on it:

http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/40435/

Time will tell.

Fogelhund · 26 Sep 2007, 06:12 (Ref:2023178)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Interesting thoughts, any sources to confirm these 'thoughts'.

But once again, if its for the Mexico race, why would incentives as you put it be used to punt Dalziel full time and not for the final race of the season ?

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/N...e.asp?ID=10862

This confirms PCM is on a lease deal with the series. The rest is my speculation. As far as the why, I've really stopped trying to wonder why this series does what, as it most often doesn't make any sense at all. Then again, everything is subject to change anyway... so....

climb · 26 Sep 2007, 06:26 (Ref:2023185)

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

Nothing in AOW is stable nowdays.
...

Well, looking at the other side of AOW, I'd say we cannot generalize; in IRL only one driver replaced and just for a lack of performance.

JohnSSC · 26 Sep 2007, 10:05 (Ref:2023333)

...but back to CC...isn't Forsythe one of, if not the promoter for the Mexico race?

For those of you saying "oh well, stuff happens" in re: Servia, keep in mind that this guy is just shy of being in the top 5 despite missing the first few races and that Martinez is such a high quality driver that Servia has been called back to test for Forsythe at Sebring. To say that accomplishing all this and then getting the boot with two races left is somehow a win for Servia just because he did not have to buy the ride (or buy as much of the ride) is just silly.

Forsythe owns the series (in part) and owns the team - how much could it have cost for him to lease a car for Martinez for one race?

Of course (and I love the motel analogy!) this could be the New Business Model for CC: Wherever you go to race, you sign a local driver. This concept could make Dale Coyne Racing look like a model of stability...

D.R.T. · 26 Sep 2007, 10:06 (Ref:2023334)

I was more generalising in terms of the loss of venues, drivers going to NASCAR, drivers/teams doing part schedule, discussion of team downsizing which is occuring on the other side.

Dave Phillips who writes articles for an Australian Motorsport magazine has indicated that it seems the Dominguez replacing Dalziel is tied in with a substantial Mexican backer for this and the following season. If true would suggest the abruptness of the driver swap.

luke · 26 Sep 2007, 10:37 (Ref:2023361)

Quote:

Originally Posted by indycool

So, you think the team didn't put Martinez in the car to put a Mexican in to fulfill a CC contract with the promoter? And you think the same with Dominguez at PCM?

Are they Australian? Next race is Aussiland.

Fogelhund · 26 Sep 2007, 11:25 (Ref:2023451)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Are they Australian? Next race is Aussiland.

Does Aussiland have a clause in the contract requiring a certain number of Aussies, that is currently not fulfilled by the current grid?

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