Heir to the throne?

[Damon]

Originally posted by Damon
2. Kimi Raikonen:...France, Spa qualifying and Hungary were great but what else?...

[JohnSSC]

Wrex, thanks for starting this thread. I am glad I read through some of these first before posting instinctually.

First, the key question is: "How long will Michael continue?" As long as he is active, you know Ferrari will be at the top of the heap. The "fight" will be for second.

Secondly,if we speculate that all of a sudden the other teams find speed, who are the current pretenders to the throne? They would be JPM, Kimi and a gaggle of "who-can-tells?" Button will be, I think the next DC (not a bad thing), Fisi may or may not be done - he needs a top ride and quick. JV will continue to the 500lb gorilla - will he choose to throw his weight around? Schumi Lite is just that, we need to see what guys like Webber will do in a real car, etc. RB, even if Michael retired tomorrow is not necessarily the "heir apparent." Take Michael out of the development mix at Ferrari and the product WILL suffer. Lots of question marks from the current crop of mid-field and back-field drivers.

Third, imho, we are going to have to wait until Michael retires to see who the next dominant driver is. I tend to think that that particular star has not yet burst on the F1 scene.

Just a thought.

[z2252314]

no driver present or future is likely to have the nouce or down right cheek to take the sport hostage in order to gain maximum success.

Take the sport hostage? That is so dumb its funny!!!

1. Juan Pablo Montoya: No suprise here! Coming back from what many described as a luckluster first season despite numerous poles and a win at Monza, JPM has established himself this year as a genuine talent and star of the future.

??? What season did you watch this year?? I think it is fair to say JPM's second year, not first, was lacklustre. He did nothing this year to prove he will be a force of the future. He can barely beat Mike's brother, who is certainly no Mike.

Second in my list simply because he didn't beat DC this year and a slight lack of consistancy.

????Someone who loves Montoya is blaming Kimi for a lack of consistency????? The one good thing about Montoya is his qualifying ability, but what most people dont realise is that he was on average slower than Ralf in quals!!! Why was this? Because of his inconsistency!!!! He'd be great one week, woeful the next.

[Damon]

No one yet has answered my question as to what Kimi achieved other than France and Hungary. I'm a great fan of Kimi's but he did have 11 retirements this year. If that had been JPM everyone would be calling him a car breaker but for Kimi its simply bad luck .

May I point you also to Monaco, Canada, Indy, Spa, Australia and Malaysia for performances that trully set JPM apart from both his team mate and Kimi. Not to mention 7 poles in a car that surely anyone can appreciate is not the best. If you'll look at the results you'll see JPM was actually pretty consistant this year. Apart from Hungary where else did he perform badly?

[BootsOntheSide]

I've got more expectations on JPM than Kimi. It is true that he has been hugely consistant with really just that one poor race, although remember how Kimi almost always qualified 5th or 6th, usually ahead of DC. I've never seen a rookie come in with some composure and calmness as Kimi has shown in the last 2 years, yet Montoya has shown raw speed beyond any other rookie since Schumacher. He can harness that and really become a winner.

Also, what about Jenson? His poor qualifying (poor compared to Trulli anyway, and we all know what a racer Jarno isn't) needn't be a problem as he has been so impressive behind the wheel on raceday. If BAR give him a good car, he can really shine.

Of course, ir would be unfair if Jenson or Ralf won titles if Fisichella never even gets a race-winning car. He really should be the future champ.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by z2252314
but what most people dont realise is that he was on average slower than Ralf in quals!!!

But how could Juan be slower than Ralf in qualifying if the score is 9-8 in Juan's favour? :confused: And I don't think anyone gives a **** about aggregate qualifying times.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Damon
No one yet has answered my question as to what Kimi achieved other than France and Hungary. I'm a great fan of Kimi's but he did have 11 retirements this year. If that had been JPM everyone would be calling him a car breaker but for Kimi its simply bad luck .

May I point you also to Monaco, Canada, Indy, Spa, Australia and Malaysia for performances that trully set JPM apart from both his team mate and Kimi. Not to mention 7 poles in a car that surely anyone can appreciate is not the best. If you'll look at the results you'll see JPM was actually pretty consistant this year. Apart from Hungary where else did he perform badly?

True, and Kimi had a poor weekend at Monaco this year as well. Another fact overlooked by the Kimi lovers I really hope we see TWO superstars in the future rather than one, be it Juan, Kimi or anyone else.

[Don K]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
But how could Juan be slower than Ralf in qualifying if the score is 9-8 in Juan's favour? :confused: And I don't think anyone gives a **** about aggregate qualifying times.

The qualifying score suggests that Juan is slighly better in qualifying.
The average (or total) qualifying times suggest that Ralf is slighly faster in qualifying.

[Don K]

Of the older drivers, I think Juan and Ralf have the best chances.
Amongst the younger generation, maybe Heidfeld, Raikkonen or Alonso.
And of course, Massa and Sato might settle down in time.

[Adam43]

Older drivers. Juan and Ralf. Aren't they both 27?

[JohnSSC]

Adam, how about we take up a collection to get them guide dogs and canes, seeing as how they are aged and infirm!

[JohnSSC]

Youth is wasted on the young.

(sorry for the double post).

[Adam43]

They are next in line for retirement...

[R]

It's a little disturbing when guys who are several years younger than yourself are being described as "older"!

[JohnSSC]

I envy your ability to say that R! Of course if we could redefine the term "several..."

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Don K
The qualifying score suggests that Juan is slighly better in qualifying.
The average (or total) qualifying times suggest that Ralf is slighly faster in qualifying.

Just looking back through the qualifying times where JPM would seem Horrifyingly off Rafes pace, they were - Australia - wet/dry conditions (even TGF lost out to Rubens here), Austria - JPM went for the harder tyres, and it worked in the race, Germany - JPM's only real bad qualifying effort imo, he was all over the place, Rafe was inch perfect, although JPM came good in the race, plus Rafe was unfortunate and Hungary - same as last year, couldn't find the set up, went with Rafes set up for better balance, but there was abit of "finger trouble" from the mechanics. Not saying that JPM would have out-qualified Rafe at any of these races, just explaining why the difference in their respective times, plus this is why Rafes qualifying average is better over the season.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
But how could Juan be slower than Ralf in qualifying if the score is 9-8 in Juan's favour?

9-8 is hardly blowing your teammate away is it? In terms of raw speed and talent, JPM will always beat Ralf. However, Ralf is more consistant.

I can't see Ralf ever being a threat to Michael for the championship, but he will make life difficult for Juan if for no other reason than ego. He can accept Michael being better than himself, but he does'nt have the same mental block for others.

[Bononi]

I would say that Ralf reacts better under pressure... when he doesn't need to save his engine.

[Damon]

Like Indy you mean?

[Glen]

Ralf might be ok under pressure - although Montoya spooked him of the road at Barcelona - but he doesn't exert any pressure himself. I lost patience with him after Interlagos - he really should have pushed Michael then.

[Bononi]

That's the same I thought. I might be wrong, but I think he lacks of that "winning" feeling, the will to win at any cost.
On the other hand, JPM had dissapointed me at Hungary, when he didn't give 100%, cause he doesn't like this kind of circuits...

[Glen]

Absolutely - a champion in the making should be looking for circuits that some drivers tend to dislike and making more effort at those tracks, to exploit a weakness. Montoya is definately a couple of pieces short of the complete driver, but to be fair even Schumacher has only recently (in my opinion) achieved the status of complete driver.

In my view Ralf is way short of what it takes - he is miserable and moody for a start, and I don't think that will change. I can't see how he expects to get anywhere if he doesn't make the extra effort - I read that he rarely visits the factory fo example.

[Damon]

JPM seems to be good at adapting to circuits he likes but not particuarly at those he doesn't. Take Monaco for example. In 2001 he qualified 7th and had a slightly embarrassingretirement early on. In 2002 he qualified on pole and was running a close second to DC before his engine gave up.

He's a real driver so his dislike of Hungary and love of Spa are only expected (compare this the Ralfs liking the new Hockenheim and commenting that he "wouldn't miss spa"). However, he will need to work on getting the results at circuits like Hungary and the new Hockenheim if he is to trully become the next to step into Schu's shoes (or so to speak!).

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by Damon
No one yet has answered my question as to what Kimi achieved other than France and Hungary

Well he was pretty brilliant in the wet on those shoddy Michelins at Silverstone. As for being a car breaker, he's not in an endurance race or a Rally. F1 races are sprints.
But I think Enzo said it the best. See tagline.

[Damon]

He was brilliant in the wet on shoddy Michilins, Montoya was better. I don't believe he's a car breaker either, no more so than any other driver can be in todays age of rev limiters, engine maps and two way telemetary.