Lady Marshal Hints & Tips

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Happy for this to expand into "PC Equality" and ANY hints or tips, not just relating to "the ladies", more than welcome as far as I am concerned.

sorry for being part of taking this off topic..

how about you give us some ideas of the problems faced by ladies on the bank and lets get our heads together and find solutions

[blueflagger]

Sparky-steve, I've got far more anecdotes of others perceiving I have a problem, than I do of actually having problems with being a woman on the banks.

Here's one interesting idea though. A lot of response training we receive is designed for a man's physical layout and not a woman's. Here's the deal: men balance themselves through their shoulders so when it comes to training in the use of force to move something, push something, lift something; we constantly get shown the "right" way to do it using shoulders as a balance point. Women, however, center their balance through their hips (you can see these differences when watching ballet); we need to move differently to achieve the same leverage strength as men. But when we try to move in a way that feels right to us, we're often told to do it over and use our shoulders. I think if more trainers, and more women themselves, were aware of this difference we'd make more strides in our ability to perform in response situations.

I know I haven't done a very good job of describing it here; my shortcut description is that I may move differently than you do to remove debris, clear a barrier or carry a fire bottle. That doesn't necessarily make my way wrong, just different. My way is only wrong if it is less safe. But we women are often told it is wrong because it isn't the same way a man moves.

[White flag man]

A very good point, thank you.
I have always felt that some of the training, in England, is a bit unrealistic. I know there is a problem with the large number of people on a training day and the time available but, for example, how often during/after fire training are you told that there probably won't be 4 marshals on post available to tackle a fire, and there certainly won't be 4 sdtanding by as back-up. To get back on topic, maybe they should organise a seperate training session for female marshals since, as you've pointed out, they may have a different way of achieving the best results than men. I know there are still less women to train than men, so maybe this could be at a central location and led by women. This may also have the effect of showing the ladies that there are more of them than they thought and make them feel more welcome.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by blueflagger

Sparky-Steve, I've got far more anecdotes of others perceiving I have a problem, than I do of actually having problems with being a woman on the banks.

Here's one interesting idea though. A lot of response training we receive is designed for a man's physical layout and not a woman's. Here's the deal: men balance themselves through their shoulders so when it comes to training in the use of force to move something, push something, lift something; we constantly get shown the "right" way to do it using shoulders as a balance point. Women, however, centre their balance through their hips (you can see these differences when watching ballet); we need to move differently to achieve the same leverage strength as men. But when we try to move in a way that feels right to us, we're often told to do it over and use our shoulders. I think if more trainers, and more women themselves, were aware of this difference we'd make more strides in our ability to perform in response situations.

I know I haven't done a very good job of describing it here; my shortcut description is that I may move differently than you do to remove debris, clear a barrier or carry a fire bottle. That doesn't necessarily make my way wrong, just different. My way is only wrong if it is less safe. But we women are often told it is wrong because it isn't the same way a man moves.

well ignore the people telling you how to do it, surly the best way is what you feel is right. everyone is different, men or women, so we all carry stuff or push stuff in a way that we as individuals feels right and therefore is right. as long as your safe and the teams safe what does it matter???

Originally Posted by White flag man

A very good point, thank you.
I have always felt that some of the training, in England, is a bit unrealistic. I know there is a problem with the large number of people on a training day and the time available but, for example, how often during/after fire training are you told that there probably won't be 4 marshals on post available to tackle a fire, and there certainly won't be 4 standing by as back-up. To get back on topic, maybe they should organise a separate training session for female marshals since, as you've pointed out, they may have a different way of achieving the best results than men. I know there are still less women to train than men, so maybe this could be at a central location and led by women. This may also have the effect of showing the ladies that there are more of them than they thought and make them feel more welcome.

wouldn't all female training days set the female marshals apart from the male? we're all marshals at the end of the day doing the same job??

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by blueflagger

...you can see these differences when watching ballet...

Ballet lesson on training days, I love it, although there's a few I don't want to see in tights and tutus...

Seriously, that's a very good point. I'm around dancers in my other hobby enough to know you're right, and yet it never occurred to me.

[racerkeke]

Possibly this isn't the kind of comment you want, but could we please do away with the term "lady marshals"?

At home I'm a corner worker in the US or a marshal if I'm in Canada, full stop. Heck, I'm a commissaire in France, which happens to be a feminine noun by accident, I'm sure. It's only in England that I am a "lady marshal". What's more, it seems that only in England is there a disregard for female bodily realities on post (i.e. a toilet closer than a session's walk away, or a "worker break" midmorning and midafternoon).

I admit my experience at English tracks is limited so there may be tracks which do not subscribe to this generalization, but I can't help wondering if the two are related.

There's more, but I think I've been incendiary enough this morning. Discuss...
keke

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by racerkeke

could we please do away with the term "lady marshals"?

I'm with you, I've been sitting on my hands to avoid typing something similar but less nicely put.

I'm a marshal - it doesn't matter what bits I've got

(I'm very proficient with a she wee as well so I can pee standing up )

[RichardW]

Just a thought - from a bloke admittedly, but PLEASE don't restrict your fluid intake just because the loos are some distance away. Especially, obviously, in the summer, dehydration is a major risk - I've always been taught that - if you're not going to the loo - you're not drinking enough. And - if you're urine colour matches your overalls, you're in real trouble.
So - keep drinking and take loo breaks - just let you're PC or IO know before you stand down.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by RichardW

Just a thought - from a bloke admittedly, but PLEASE don't restrict your fluid intake just because the loos are some distance away. Especially, obviously, in the summer, dehydration is a major risk - I've always been taught that - if you're not going to the loo - you're not drinking enough. And - if you're urine colour matches your overalls, you're in real trouble.
So - keep drinking and take loo breaks - just let you're PC or IO know before you stand down.

don't you mean sit down

OK but that goes for guys or girls, if you need to go, go!! just let someone know where you are. we're volunteers not captives, I'm sure we don't need to start quoting the human rights on loo breaks

i am wondering where this thread is going? seems to be,,,,,, all about wee

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by RichardW

And - if you're urine colour matches your overalls, you're in real trouble.

Especially at the Aussie F1GP where the Medics & Firies wear Green or Red overalls

[blueflagger]

I'm certainly not one you want to see in a tutu, Wooley.

I don't think separate training sessions are needed but perhaps if you could bring in one expert, just once, to talk about/demonstrate these differences in front of all marshals; understanding will spread.

I actually first learned about it in a women's self-defense class sponsored by my employer. A pair of ex-police officers taught the class and it opened my eyes about how I could damage someone or move to remain undamaged myself if I was mugged. It was fascinating. Later, I learned more about the physics of balance from a yoga instructor. I find myself putting the knowledge to use during incident response. The only mugging I get at the racetrack is when I try to buy edible food at a vendor's stand.

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by RichardW

Just a thought - from a bloke admittedly, but PLEASE don't restrict your fluid intake just because the loos are some distance away. Especially, obviously, in the summer, dehydration is a major risk - I've always been taught that - if you're not going to the loo - you're not drinking enough. And - if you're urine colour matches your overalls, you're in real trouble.
So - keep drinking and take loo breaks - just let you're PC or IO know before you stand down.

Richard, the UK is the only place where I have that issue and I've never worked a race there on a day when it's been actually warm enough for me to worry about dehydration.

Keke is right, the UK tracks have a woeful lack of convenient facilities or comfort breaks for marshals, female or otherwise. The hospitality is wonderful though.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by RichardW

obviously, in the summer, dehydration is a major risk

You should try living in Australia or NZ during our Summer months.

As I type this it's 33.2C in Melbourne at 7:30pm but about 23C in my air conditioned office, then home in my air conditioned car & to my air conditioned home

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

Mark, as far as I'm concerned your boots are always polished as an Observer (Post Chief) ..... What I would like to see is more understanding as to a girl's potential needs. Which is why I reckon that us girls have to make sure that the Organisers realise that fact.

As far as I'm concerned the Oulton/Anglesey post allocators do an excellent job to ensure that, wherever possible, female marshals are given posts with or adjacent to toilets.

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by PVDA

You should try living in Australia or NZ during our Summer months.

As I type this it's 33.2C in Melbourne at 7:30pm but about 23C in my air conditioned office, then home in my air conditioned car & to my air conditioned home

And as I type it's trying to snow......................................

[blueflagger]

Originally Posted by KayBee

As far as I'm concerned the Oulton/Anglesey post allocators do an excellent job to ensure that, wherever possible, female marshals are given posts with or adjacent to toilets.

And those are two of your tracks I haven't been able to visit... yet.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by KayBee

As far as I'm concerned the Oulton/Anglesey post allocators do an excellent job to ensure that, wherever possible, female marshals are given posts with or adjacent to toilets.

is that due to Nadine allocating posts ???

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

is that due to Nadine allocating posts ???

Not just Nadine. Several other people are involved in allocating posts; everybody tries to take into account the needs of the individual when allocating posts.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

is that due to Nadine allocating posts ???

Originally Posted by Dave Brand

Not just Nadine. Several other people are involved in allocating posts; everybody tries to take into account the needs of the individual when allocating posts.

yes i know, was just a leg pull hence the

[Foxy_Marshal]

[QUOTE=Shelagh;2621794]Can't remember if we've done this one before but replying to another thread sparked the idea.......

What hints and tips can we all give each other, especially the newbies, about surviving a day out on the bank?

Greetings from North of the border.
here are a few of my tips for newbie girlie marshals. My tips will look very girlie but they what i have figured out over my last 14 years on the bank

keep spare toiletries in you kit bag -wipes, hair brush, sunscreen, moisturizer bobbles etc. you will be surprised the number of marshals ( boys and girls) who forget the normal stuff to survive the day but can tell you who won the grand prix in canada in 1978. being part of team means we all have to be organised and support but sometimes even the perfect ones forget

have spare socks! this sounds random, but our lovely lady feet can put up with being in high heels but a few days on the bank in decent boots, you need to change your socks both during the day and before you drive home in order to be able to walk in your pretty shoes on monday morning

extra set of gloves- if you forget your pair and borrow one of the lads, you may find out that their hands are as big as shovels and your hands are rendered useless as your fingers dont work

Wash your face with wipes before you even leave post, then wack on some moisturizer. no matter what the weather, if you been out on track and doing any sort of sweeping, oil dressing or removing cars from gravel traps, your face bill be covered in dust ( and not the type marjory from fat fighters says you can eat )

Enjoy your day on post. As it has been mentioned, when your on post, being a guy or a girl does not really make the difference, althought it is amazing how many guys will come to check the track at your part of circuit if there is grid girls. yes there is industrial language from time to time but i think it is fair to say that as a girlie marshal, i have shocked many guys with the way i talk on post. but they ho, they still come back
happy racing this year everyone

Foxy
xxxx

[blueflagger]

High heels? What're those?

Haven't worn 'em in years.

[Sticker Rub]

[QUOTE=Foxy_Marshal;2628291]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

you will be surprised the number of marshals ( boys and girls) who forget the normal stuff to survive the day but can tell you who won the grand prix in canada in 1978.

8th October 1978, the first GP to be held on the Île Notre-Dame circuit (later of course to be named the Circuit Gilles Villeneuve following his tragic death in 1982), won by Gilles Villeneuve, followed by Jody Schekter & Carlos Reutemann. Alan Jones lost the lead with a slow puncture after 18 laps. It was also the first GP televised by the BBC. Now, where did I leave my moisturiser? (and before anyone else says it, yes it's probably in the pocket of my anorak)

[Shelagh]

Thank you to all contributors - but roll on the start of racing, please!

Anybody any ideas how I can get rid of the image of Woolley in tights?

[shjo558]

(I haven't read all replies so it may have already been mentioned)

For me, the only thing lady marshals have to worry about that the blokes don't is where the loos are. You might find yourself hiding behind trees though on some posts (Sunny In at Croft perhaps)

It would be helpful if Chief Marshals just take your word for it if you insist on a post that has facilities near by though. Having to spell out I have my "lady things" does tend to embarrass the poor person organising the posts

Another way to get to the loos if your on a post in the middle of nowhere is to take out your pork pie and wait, then flutter your eyelashes at the recovery truck driver and beg for a lift!

[shjo558]

Originally Posted by aland

too right steve, the girlies I have worked with, swear as much as the guys, drink as much and most importantly graft as much plus being on post with a lovely lady is rather pleasing too

We should use this for marshal recruitment.

Can you swear, drink and graft...........