Detroit, IRL Belle Island - Page 2

Smiffy · 2 Sep 2007, 22:23 (Ref:2002120)

I'm going to give Scott the benefit of the doubt. Even had he continued down the track, Dario chose the wrong side, and might well have got caught anyway.

It's a close call though.

NAC · 2 Sep 2007, 22:33 (Ref:2002129)

I'm going to have to wait to see the footage. Only had the Indycar.com in car cam.

ensign14 · 2 Sep 2007, 22:51 (Ref:2002137)

I'm not going to give Dixon the benefit of the doubt. He has previous. Over the previous lap. Warned for blocking then a dumbass move on Rice before reversing into Franchitti. Too coincidental.

JohnSSC · 2 Sep 2007, 23:16 (Ref:2002154)

I replayed that last incident a couple of times and to be honest, I think Dixon did it intentionally (rolling in front of Dario). However, the "action" taken by Dixon - or the lack of action (i.e. putting foot on brake pedal) appears ambiguous enough that one could not "prove" he intentionally rolled in front of Dario. Lost in all of this is that Rice had a good drive, tries to make room and Scott contributes to his one-way ticket into the barrier anyway.

Whether Dario was on the wrong side or not I tend to think that Dario was going to where he should have gone. You would anticipate that Dixon would stop on the inside rather than the outside of the track. If Dario went to the inside he would be risking t-boning Dixon. Don't want to think about the possible outcomes from an impact at that point - none of them are good. Going to the outside seemed to be the best choice among the not-so-good choices he had.

Could anyone give some more detail on what Dario said post-race? ABC cut things off before he could comment.

By the way, there were quite a number of bonehead moves in the race. Hornish seemed to be on a mission to cull the heard single-handedly (nice job!) and what Helio was thinking when he tried to pass Scheckter by driving through his right-rear suspension I will never know.

ensign14 · 2 Sep 2007, 23:28 (Ref:2002159)

Helio said he was surprised Tomas didn't let him past, as he let Kanaan past. Classless comment. The Penske boys have repeatedly committed professional fouls all season and the gutless and toothless people in charge have constantly refused to take any sort of action against them. Everyone's on probation at the moment, right? Well, sit Helio down for a race. They did to Milka, even though she never took anyone out. (Though she could take me out, oh yes.)

kingfloopy · 2 Sep 2007, 23:31 (Ref:2002160)

I think it was ambiguous enough that I can give Dixon the benefit of the doubt. He definitely let off the brake to roll back, but you can't tell if he conclusively saw Dario or not. To me it looked like he was rolling backward to get out of the middle of track and to avoid getting speared by Danica. From the angle he was at it would have been easier to see her barreling down on him over Dario and as fast it happened for all he knew Dario could passed already. There isn't anything conclusive either way, but Dixon has never struck me as being a dirty racer.

J.D.

ensign14 · 2 Sep 2007, 23:48 (Ref:2002169)

Well, he must have known Dario was right behind him, and would not have seen him pass in front, so might have guessed...

deejay · 2 Sep 2007, 23:56 (Ref:2002171)

http://www.indycar.com/multimedia/vi...ayer.php?v=796

Well, after watching the replay several times I'm not certain - although I can understand why people are leaping to conclusions. Would like to hear what Scott has to say.

JohnSSC · 3 Sep 2007, 00:38 (Ref:2002180)

One thing he WON'T say is " "I knew i could block him..."!!

Like I said, the video is ambiguous enough that you could not "prove" anything.

Got a big kick out of Helio saying that about Scheckter and he fails to recognize that TK was faster than he was all day. Curious that the Penske boys had difficulties in the same corner.

Refutation · 3 Sep 2007, 03:16 (Ref:2002220)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Wheldon seems demotivated really. Cruel luck early on has denied him a title shot, he had a miserable 500 and he isn't allowed his dream move to NASCAR yet. Hardly surprising he's ending the season in morose style.

Finishes third, could've just rolled over to the faster guys behind him, and let Helio put him a lap down early, but he put up a great fight with a crappy car this weekend, and finished 3rd, while most everyone made a fool out of themselves. I see Dan's luck as having turned around again lately, considering he isn't getting caught up in the same crap as he was during his little bad stretch there, and to say that he's not as motivated or agressive as he's always been is an insult.

Good Job Dan

luke · 3 Sep 2007, 05:07 (Ref:2002247)

At first when I saw that I thought it was just a typical street race crash. But as soon as I heard Michael's instant view I did start to think Dixon may have turned back into Dario. He did seem to let back off the brakes and steer into that angle that Dario was going into.

That's more races Dario should have / could have won now. Atleast he has the title lead.

If Dario and Scott take each other out which is possible Kanaan could win the title.

n.kuiper · 3 Sep 2007, 05:51 (Ref:2002259)

i havent seen the footage yet but im pretty sure scott wouldnt do it on purpose knowing that it would also damage his car more

n.kuiper · 3 Sep 2007, 06:03 (Ref:2002262)

i just looked at the video and honestly i dont think he didi it on purpose if he had braked he could have missed the walls and carried on and wouldnt have lost many positions

Alwaysfirst · 3 Sep 2007, 06:09 (Ref:2002263)

There was a lot of really stupid moves today. If all the drivers really are on probation then there should be at least a couple out for Chicagoland. There won't be of course but some of the driving today was just amateurish, especially from Helio with the 'I don;t know why he didn't just let me past' comment. Whilst I think that Dixon's move may have been directed a bit at Dario I think in that kind of situation it is just a bit too marginal to call a foul.

I'm not generally in favour of taking drivers out of the field but I get far more irritated when the powers that be say the drivers are on probation & then after this race I will bet that nobody is punished. If you say it, at least try to keep up some semblance of meaning it!

D.R.T. · 3 Sep 2007, 07:08 (Ref:2002278)

It didnt look good, but there is no way of proving it. Personally with the car spinning and going in the wrong direction, I dont think there was enough time to mentally make the decision and then carry it out to reverse in the path of Franchitti

Richard Head · 3 Sep 2007, 09:38 (Ref:2002398)

If you look at his front wheels as he is spinning you can see he deliberately steers into Dario!!!

**gomick** · 3 Sep 2007, 09:52 (Ref:2002408)

Congrats to Tony Kanaan on his 5th win of the season

- bet he wishes there was 2 more races to go in the season

... shall be a great final round none the less...

NAC · 3 Sep 2007, 10:13 (Ref:2002429)

Has anyone got the time it took from the moment of impact / spinning with Rice to the moment of when Dario and Dixie tangled???????? (actual time i'm looking for)

JohnSSC · 3 Sep 2007, 11:36 (Ref:2002491)

Didn't have the stopwatch going for that but it did happen at one of the medium-to-fast corners...

NAC · 3 Sep 2007, 11:52 (Ref:2002507)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

I replayed that last incident a couple of times and to be honest, I think Dixon did it intentionally (rolling in front of Dario).

So it happened on a "medium-to-fast corner" and Dixon had the time to intentionally get in Dario's way.

Hmmmmm

JohnSSC · 3 Sep 2007, 12:06 (Ref:2002528)

You weren't watching the race, right? No offense but here is what was going on: The race became a timed race. There were about 2 laps left and Rice was supposedly short of fuel. Dixon had been told to watch for Rice's car to start cutting out - stay close, but not too close. Dixon backed off a bit and Dario backed off a bit from Dixon. Dixon tried to come down the inside of Rice (right-hand turn) and both of them were all over the brakes, slowing dramatically. Dario, not being a moron jumped on the binders to give himself room. Rice went off to the outside of the corner and Dixon spun to the inside. Dario picked his way past Rice and Dixon had come to an almost complete stop on the inside. Dario choose to go to the outside, at which time Dixon's car, either intentionally, unintentionally or by Divine Intervention starts backing across the track, collecting Dario.

So you're "hmmmm" comment, which I presume was to negate anyone thinking that Scott could think of doing such a dastardly thing as the corner was "too fast" really is not reflective of the situation. Besides, these guys are paid to think fast since they are supposed to be driving fast, but as I said, the evidence is ambiguous but certainly it was a fortuitous moment for Scott.

Chicagoland should be loads of fun.

NAC · 3 Sep 2007, 12:32 (Ref:2002558)

John You are correct I have not seen the race in full, was watching on Indycar.com feed, live time and in the chat room. But I have since seen the footage over and over, Albeit I have not as yet listened to all that you have mentioned.

Question:
When racers crash they are taught to take their hands off the wheel yes / no ?? Also what about their feet??

Apart from all that Scott is not that sort or driver. Yes he is a hard charger but he is fair. I have been following Scott's since he was 13, to the best of my knowledge the sort of you behaviour you have mentioned is not in his nature.

Yes I am also bias and defending my boy (as they say in the hood)

Yes I agree Chicagoland should be loads of fun, cant wait.

JohnSSC · 3 Sep 2007, 12:49 (Ref:2002569)

Well, the hands/feet thing would have applied more to Rice. Recall that Dixon was spinning and I would think attempting to control that spin so as not to hit the barriers. My own experience has been that you do what you can to control the car and only take your hands off the wheel just before impact. It would be rather foolish to go spinning off and to leave go of the controls the instant the car begins to spin.

Like I said though, the video is ambiguous and where you stand depends on where you sit! I would be disappointed in any driver who did that intentionally and I hope that Scott did not.

Knowlesy · 3 Sep 2007, 13:06 (Ref:2002580)

I have had another few looks at it and I have to say it doesn't get any better. The thing is, he makes the final steering movement so late and in such convenience.... sorry, it was bad sportsmanship for me.

I think someone else spun there in exactly the same way earlier on in the race. However, they didn't suddenly move backwards, they stayed off to the right I believe.

I know Dixon isn't by nature a dirty driver, he is generally a hard and fair racer. But in that moment he was about to take a big championship hit on the very last lap, he had obviously been wound up by trying to get by Buddy Rice with Dario right behind him. It just looked a bad reaction and if it proves decisive come seasons end it will be very sad indeed.

rdjones · 3 Sep 2007, 13:18 (Ref:2002592)

I have just seen this one on Sky, I don't know what to make off it.

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