Who's game is it anyway? - Page 2

ChrisPage · 16 Jun 2009, 18:04 (Ref:2484666)

I still have my doubts that McLaren (and others) would want to join a series that would so obviously be The Ferrari GP Championship.

This has gone too far - I honestly belive that two months ago a solution was possible - a higher cap for 2010, progressivly lower and the teams support new entrants (none of which are 'GP3' standard as Ferrari put it).

But all the side have now dug in their heals and won't compromise one wheel cap. Sad, sad, sad.

A breakaway series can only have the effect of destroying both F1 and the new series. What happens in 2011 when Renault and BMW pull out? Some of these teams clearly want to leave, but they are almost staying put just to prove a point now.

Lets get beyond our own personal views on the protagonists. I can't stand Max, and think Bernie is determined to drive the sport to destruction in 10 years time for some quick oil bucks now. B-U-T:

All the protagonists involved here have points where they are right and points where they are wrong. Max, Bernie, FOTA. All arguments have strengths and weaknesses. I fear two rival series will simply highlight the weaknesses on both sides rather than a stronger F1 where the positives of both can be allowed.

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

ChrisPage · 16 Jun 2009, 18:05 (Ref:2484667)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

No, he's just a greedy little man driven by self interest.

Yes, he is. But so are the teams. So is Max. They all should be lead out back and shot.

Peralta · 16 Jun 2009, 18:45 (Ref:2484687)

What a mess. I hope common sense prevails here. One question weren't the manufactures themselves (Briatore for one) complaining of over spending in F1. I remember last year half the grid was worried about excessive cost. What happened? All of the sudden the economy turned around.

**Bononi** · 16 Jun 2009, 22:02 (Ref:2484861)

I've to say that I am totally surprised with all that is happening ! That's utterly preposterous !

OZ_HCR32 · 17 Jun 2009, 07:16 (Ref:2485005)

Good stuff, Williams to win the 2010 WCC!

This is sad and likely to take away from one of the best GPs of the year

Naruto · 17 Jun 2009, 12:25 (Ref:2485173)

its mine

LinkF1 · 17 Jun 2009, 13:43 (Ref:2485218)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

I still have my doubts that McLaren (and others) would want to join a series that would so obviously be The Ferrari GP Championship.

You mean exactly what we had from 1999 to 2004? (That probably would have continued until 2006 without the tire war) Which is the exact period in which many of these manufacturers entered the sport to bring the fight to Ferrari. The manufacturers WANT to be fighting each other (and specifically Ferrari) with the best drivers and the fastest cars. F1 has been drifting away from that second goal and this is, in my opinion, why FOTA don't want anything to do with the currently proposed regulations.

Then there is the money issue, if revenue isn't shared at a greater proportion, I dont see any reason for any of the manufacturers to stay in the sport including the Williams' and McLarens of the world.

csirl · 17 Jun 2009, 15:13 (Ref:2485259)

Quote:

Then there is the money issue, if revenue isn't shared at a greater proportion, I dont see any reason for any of the manufacturers to stay in the sport including the Williams' and McLarens of the world.

Agreed, this is the core issue. And it wont go away because a compromise is made for the 2010 season. This issue will have probably to be sorted out within the next couple of years or the sport will die. And its very clear that the solution wont involve Bernie. Worst case scenario is that the issue drags on until Bernie passes away - he's no spring chicken and is unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

**Born Racer** · 17 Jun 2009, 18:23 (Ref:2485381)

Quote:

likely to take away from one of the best GPs of the year

For me it won't (overly). I can't be arsed with the politics, this avoiding thus avoiding these discussions too much at the moment. I'll probably be back at the weekend when there's some motor racing to discuss.

Marbot · 17 Jun 2009, 19:21 (Ref:2485435)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I'll probably be back at the weekend when there's some motor racing to discuss.

What's this "motor racing" then?

JeremySmith · 18 Jun 2009, 00:15 (Ref:2485610)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

What's this "motor racing" then?

It's complete rubbish it happens every two or three weeks, and it's very noisy..

Flyin Ryan · 18 Jun 2009, 00:58 (Ref:2485618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by csirl

Agreed, this is the core issue. And it wont go away because a compromise is made for the 2010 season. This issue will have probably to be sorted out within the next couple of years or the sport will die. And its very clear that the solution wont involve Bernie. Worst case scenario is that the issue drags on until Bernie passes away - he's no spring chicken and is unlikely to be around in 10 years time.

And in 10 years' time, who controls the sport? Bernie's wife? Bernie's kids? We have less idea on succession in either Formula One or the FIA than in North Korea.

Marbot · 18 Jun 2009, 09:05 (Ref:2485775)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

And in 10 years' time, who controls the sport?

Bernie will have someone in mind well before then,probably even now! But he'll be around for quite some time yet I think,even if he can't make it to the circuits any more.

Excellent sig.Very appropriate with regards to the budget cap.

Flyin Ryan · 19 Jun 2009, 01:18 (Ref:2486292)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

Bernie will have someone in mind well before then,probably even now!

Ah, so it really is like North Korea.

Quote:

Excellent sig.Very appropriate with regards to the budget cap.

Not really. Dropping down from a Ferrari to a Maserati (or since you're British, an Aston Martin to a Jaguar) does not quantify to me as "having nothing". Having watched him race previously and how he did it, I think Dave Marcis would agree. If Dave Marcis had an F1 team, he'd drive the team cars and the tractor-trailer towing them from the team's base in England to a place like the Hungaroring himself. When an F1 driver does that for one of these outfits because of the budget cap, get back with me.

TWK · 19 Jun 2009, 01:32 (Ref:2486298)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

There's one tiny flaw - the NFL isn't a motor racing series

Team-run motor racing series ALWAYS fail

You sound like someone's wife..."You ALWAYS do that...."

That's a little simple, isn't it? Some have run for 30 years before they "failed," and failed for reasons unrelated to whether they were "team run" or not. No shortage of motor racing series that were NOT team run have failed.

The issue is here is the rentention of the revenue to the teams and tracks. A friend of mine who has spent four decades in professional motorsport around the globe recently wrote, "All you need for a race is a track and teams."

You don't need some damn "supremo" raking off the cash and shutting down the traditional venues.

JeremySmith · 19 Jun 2009, 01:45 (Ref:2486302)

The game belongs to the short man in the white shirt, For...........

Ted bennett · 19 Jun 2009, 01:49 (Ref:2486304)

It looks like Bernie is stood all alone in a field holding his ball while the big boys are walking away with their bat.

1969MGCGTdriver · 19 Jun 2009, 05:58 (Ref:2486356)

let Bernie and Max twist in the wind...

Purist · 19 Jun 2009, 07:10 (Ref:2486387)

Jab, I agree on the medals thing at least, but most of the otherstuff, I do not, especially on the circuits (but there's a thread on track safety in "My Tracks" for that).

The attention will go with the big teams and known drivers. It's that simple. And manufacturers will spend what they can while they can, and pull out if they're dictated to. They only take real guff on their own terms, and this is nothing new.

BTW, the competitiveness of the 1982 season mentioned above was helped along by a career-ending accident (Pironi) and a fatal crash (Villeneuve).

stedevil · 19 Jun 2009, 11:39 (Ref:2486517)

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

So F1 would be a low budget series with all teams running the same engine: sounds like A1 GP to me.

No, A1GP has a prestigious brand to supply the engines.

Speedislife · 21 Jun 2009, 04:58 (Ref:2487279)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

No, but the fact is the old track are off the calendar for a reason, and just because the teams might go back to some of them with their new series doesn't mean they will. For all you know, within a couple of years of that series, we'll end up back in Sakhir and Shanghai again

Not sure about the European tracks, but I know that the USGP is off the calendar (and I think Canada also) because of the exorbitant fees Bernie is charging the venues, more then they could hope to recoup from ticket sales and merchandising...even at a place like Indianapolis Motor Speedway. That's why he's chasing oil sheiks and state-sponsored venues like Shanghai...they will pay his fees for the "privilege and prestige" of hosting an F1 race.

marcel82 · 21 Jun 2009, 22:54 (Ref:2487891)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jab

These places are paying a lot more money for their races with far better facilities, so the alternative is no races at all

what was wrong with the facilities that held GP's at times when there were so many entrants that you needed to have prequalifiers to bigger grids than what we have now? nothing, untill the flashy new ones came up, and made the old ones seem like the dumps they weren't.
and the money argument is nonsense. the alternative would've been: circuits not going bankrupt to stay in competition to host F1.

Quote:

It's not a closed shop. Teams are allowed to enter if they want. They just can't afford it because, again, the manufacturers have driven costs up

It is a closed shop. there (were) 24 cars allowed on the grid. for next season, there were up 11 new teams ready to enter, only 3 of them are allowed.

Quote:

Personal opinion. And they were designed that way to make overtaking easier, so the alternative is minimal overtaking with last year's cars, which, in my opinion, were a lot uglier than the ones we have now

we're not seeing the big improvement on overtakes they led us to believe would happen. in the first races it was better, but that was due to KERS, which most of the teams seem to have dropped now. Passing, as before, happens in the pits once again, not on track.

JeremySmith · 22 Jun 2009, 00:53 (Ref:2487965)

The game belongs to the one that wins...

sexyjonas · 7 Oct 2009, 19:35 (Ref:2556121)

I was wodering if the manufacturers do leave or are effectively shown the door, who would provide the engines?

And true what would become of TV rights money and the effect of this?
Would TV be less interested and therfore would coverage be less reliable and/or extensive?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 12 Oct 2009, 01:59 (Ref:2559390)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

The game belongs to the one that wins...

Or who has the most money. In which case it's Bernie v Ferrari.

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