Renault possibly to quit F1 as well?

[Born Racer]

They'd better not leave.

Where ever will Webber go to?

[strider]

Renault is a manufacturer. Today's meeting will have been all about finding more money to compensate for loss of TV income (due to poor results) and loss of sponsorship money (we all know why).

If those two can be found and they continue to provide good engines to Red Bull, they'll stay.

I went to Enstone on a factory trip in the summer and once you've done something like that and seen at first hand the people who will lose their jobs if they do shut down, somehow it all becomes more real.

[the sniper]

Originally Posted by Quite old fan

I am saddened to read that all you "purists" who want to be rid of all manufacturer teams whose owners or Board of Directors, who after all paid to bring a team into existence and may also change their minds and decide there comes a time when they should retract from Formula 1 don't seem to have thought of the consequences and repercussions for the members of staff at all levels of those defunct teams. They still have mortgages to pay and possibly families to support. Would you be happy if someone registered with 10-10ths decided that the company that you worked for should close because they had some deep religious belief that only small individual companies should be allowed to compete in their business sector?
Should McLaren close because of its links or part ownership by Mercedes-Benz?
Perhaps F1 would be better if all the teams were owned and funded by the twelve most wealthy people in the world. Would that bring the sporting independence that you crave and would the brilliant people who are Formula 1 have any more security of tenure?
F1 employees do not sleep comfortably at night.

There's always one...

We aren't celebrating people losing their jobs, but why should fans be made to feel ashamed for looking on the bright side of the Manufacturers pulling out?

Anyway, a number of your points are wide of the mark:

A) No one wants ex-manufacturer teams to just shut down and leave F1, everyone hopes buyers are found and as many people as possible keep their jobs.

B) Your example regarding 10 Tenths is ridiculous, it implies us fans saying we don't mind manufactures pulling out has directly resulted in the manufacturers quitting F1 and numerous people losing their jobs. When the heck did the manufacturers start caring what fans think?! Did we go from being ignored to running their operations over one night as I must have missed that!

To answer you random question, I wouldn't care if someone registered here and said I should be sacked as it would make no difference to anything! My employer doesn't rely on 10 Tenths members for human resources advice and I'm sure the F1 manufactures don't either...

C)"Should McLaren close because of its links or part ownership by Mercedes-Benz?" - No, who asked for that? Also, where have people said they want all the manufactures to pull out?

D)"F1 employees do not sleep comfortably at night". - Neither do a lot of people at the moment, a lot of whom aren't as well qualified or paid as someone employed by an F1 team.

Sorry I've been harsh, none of us are happy about people losing their jobs but there are positives to an F1 without a majority of manufacturer teams. Are we just supposed to ignore those to appease some people who might loose their jobs and might come across this forum?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by calibrax

If they do, it leaves Kubica free and Red Bull with an engine supply problem...

Or Red Bull with a works branding engine deal and Red Bull with a second superstar driver while Webber drives a Force India perhaps... :|

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by jab

Because manufacturers cannot be trusted in F1. The decisions are taken by the boards of these companies, not the people who are actually involved in the sport. It's the whole reason why manufacturers leaving F1 is a good thing

I couldn't agree more. As much as I am a fan for some marques, I think they should support private teams and not own them.

[Asa]

I think only if Ferrari pulls out then Bernie's contract with race promoters will be a problem. I am pretty sure Ferrari figures quite prominently in every race promoters' contracts.

Toyota and Renault withdrawing are what Bernie wants exactly, now he has just got all these small flies on the grid, apart from McLaren and Ferrari, he can squash them whenever he feels like and no need to worry about anything. He gets total control. He can arrange a race in the middle of the Antarctica and no one will complain this is not my market and we have to pay more attention to the climate change...blah blah blah.

[skells22]

what time willl we hear about this Renalut news

[Sodemo]

I wonder what the situation with N-Tech is, I mean if they do win their court case against the FIA, what would they do "oh ok then, here you are, have a place on our grid for 2010 and use whatever engine you like?" is that a realistic outcome?

[fangio]

Originally Posted by jab

Because manufacturers cannot be trusted in F1. The decisions are taken by the boards of these companies, not the people who are actually involved in the sport. It's the whole reason why manufacturers leaving F1 is a good thing

I completely disagree; the FIA and F1 management cannot be trusted and are only using F1 to make more money. It's mr BE that took the sporting side out many years ago only for his own financial good. I can undertand that large manufacturers don't want to be taken for idiots; if they don't like the way they are being treated they go. Look at what Renault has done for Motorsport in many different classes..........
It's obvious that motorsport is important to them but the fun and business-sense is really taken out by the likes of Briatore and BE.

[Asa]

There is no justification for investing in F1 for a manufacturer. It is now a pure marketing exercise.

A few years ago FIA let the manufacturers play with KERS. Then they all went off to develop their systems. We all know what happened, millions and millions down the drain.

Then the F1 calendar no longer have races in key markets such as USA and France while the German and British races are in danger, all the while with more and more races in the Middle East and Far East, what kind of marketing exercise is this?

Then there are the financial results. It is not hard to see why so many in the corporate headquarters want to pull the plugs.

[Asa]

The independent teams will have zero power against Bernie. Bernie is going to make them bend over every time.

You will end up getting one race in Europe, one race in Canada, one race in Brazil, one race in Africa, one race in Australia and then 15 night races in the Middle and Far East. All coming to you only on cable/satellite TV.

[Jamesy-18]

As much as I am worried for today, I can't see it happening. Renault had the perfect time to bail out in light of the crash-gate scandal if they so wanted, but they didn't. Why would they go now?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

Why would they go now?

It would look like they are leaving for reasons other than the scandal.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by skells22

what time willl we hear about this Renalut news

I'm anxiously waiting on this one. Really don't want to see Renault leave, heck I even miss seeing Flavio on the pit wall or getting his face in everywhere.

It's just not the same. Flavio gets done being corrupt once on the track, BE and Max are corrupt all the time and get millions (billions?) for it.

[koper]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

I'm anxiously waiting on this one. Really don't want to see Renault leave, heck I even miss seeing Flavio on the pit wall or getting his face in everywhere.

It's just not the same. Flavio gets done being corrupt once on the track, BE and Max are corrupt all the time and get millions (billions?) for it.

I don't like neither of them, but If I were you I wouldn't put such accusations on the open forum, as I doubt you have evidences for that.

[F.O.F.]

Max doesn't get millions, Bernie does get billions though.

If the Enstone based team can survive as an independent, as they did for many years then I would be all for Renault leaving. They've been a good team since they've existed and have beaten the best with tighter budgets (Albeit with some shady tactics at times). They could focus on racing and not have to worry that any day the axe could come falling from the boardroom. Mr. Ghosn has been publicy sceptical of F1 since he took the helm of Renault and it's only a matter of time until they do pull the plug, whether it be hours, days or years.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by koper

I don't like neither of them, but If I were you I wouldn't put such accusations on the open forum, as I doubt you have evidences for that.

Wow, didn't realise it would get people all antsy in their pantsy. Everyone knows they wring the sport any which way they can to suit their own budget, regardless of who they walk over. Call it what you want, I'm not sure I'd call it fair but you're right in that it's not my place to call it.

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by F.O.F.

Mr. Ghosn has been publicy sceptical of F1 since he took the helm of Renault and it's only a matter of time until they do pull the plug, whether it be hours, days or years.

Would you say that F1 has been a success for Renault if they do pull out?

Personally I would think yes, looking at what they have achieved compared to most other manufacturers recently.

I would remember them for being one of the few to take it to McLaren and Ferrari during their dominant years, above all else.

[F.O.F.]

Definitely a success! 2 WDCs and 2 WCCs. And at the time they were spending around $105M compared to Ferrari and McLaren who might have been well in excess of $300M around 2005/2006. They advertised their success in the road car market heavily at the time as well.

They certainly got better value for money than any other manufacturer in recent years...Toyota

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

I'm anxiously waiting on this one. Really don't want to see Renault leave, heck I even miss seeing Flavio on the pit wall or getting his face in everywhere.

It's just not the same. Flavio gets done being corrupt once on the track, BE and Max are corrupt all the time and get millions (billions?) for it.

I wouldn't say BE was corrupt - he just runs his business politics to make as much money as possible, by extracting it from the teams, the circuits the promoters and the fans. I think that covers everything.

I would however say he was a traitor to his English heritage. Which is my books is a much much worse thing to be. Anyone with the tiniest spec of patriotism and the money he has, would ensure that the British GP continues, without all the crap going around at the moment. He could have made a deal to remain at Silverstone, he could have paid for the Donny improvements out of his pocket money. But no, he put money money money above his heritage. And, to me, that is unforgiveable.

[koper]

Originally Posted by AussieTimmeh

Wow, didn't realise it would get people all antsy in their pantsy. Everyone knows they wring the sport any which way they can to suit their own budget, regardless of who they walk over. Call it what you want, I'm not sure I'd call it fair but you're right in that it's not my place to call it.

I'm sorry, it's not the case.

Being greedy and selfish is not the same as being corrupt.

Greediness and selfishness are features of character.
Corruption is a crime.

I just don't like accusing someone of commiting a crime without any evidences.

I am not going to spoil that thread so I will not continue this particular conversation. I'm not a mod anyway.

[koper]

Originally Posted by JamesH

I wouldn't say BE was corrupt - he just runs his business politics to make as much money as possible, by extracting it from the teams, the circuits the promoters and the fans. I think that covers everything.

I would however say he was a traitor to his English heritage. Which is my books is a much much worse thing to be. Anyone with the tiniest spec of patriotism and the money he has, would ensure that the British GP continues, without all the crap going around at the moment. He could have made a deal to remain at Silverstone, he could have paid for the Donny improvements out of his pocket money. But no, he put money money money above his heritage. And, to me, that is unforgiveable.

Spotted perfectly

[AussieTimmeh]

Originally Posted by koper

I'm sorry, it's not the case.

Being greedy and selfish is not the same as being corrupt.

Greediness and selfishness are features of character.
Corruption is a crime.

I just don't like accusing someone of commiting a crime without any evidences.

I am not going to spoil that thread so I will not continue this particular conversation. I'm not a mod anyway.

No skin off my nose, you're entitled to your opinion. It's ok to have different interpretations and definitions based on your experiences.

My opinion is that BE and the like change the rules to suit their agenda how they please, you call this greediness and selfishness, whereas I see it in the same strains as a military coup, ruling by force. The fact that N Technology is taking them to court for unfair favouritism during the selection of new teams points to the fact that they feel there is corruption (they name it as "irregularities") at the highest level, so I don't feel like I am totally unjustified.

My opinion is also based on what I read here and in the media, so in that sense I can only go from what I read. Much like most people here who don't have an intimate relationship with BE.

[old man]

Originally Posted by JamesRamone

It's a good job we are getting some new teams next year! If they hadn't been offered places we would be left with something like 14 bloomin cars !

Mmmmmm good point, a bit of forward planning perhaps by someone who knows a bit about this F1 Game?

The point about which markets are served by races is valid I think and suspect there may be an argument that it doesn't matter where you hold the race, just what time it is on TV. Renault's market share has been heavily influenced IMO by its involvement in Racing and it does not need a full F1 team to keep that up in tough times. Manufacturer involvement in any racing category is good except that when they run their own teams they push the budgets up to breaking point and many of us have seen this happen too often. Personally I prefer them to be technology suppliers and offer rewards for success with their products rather than run their own teams.

[Tim the Grey]

Renault can run World Series, national Clio racing, V6s, and FRenault throughout the whole of Europe and beyond, for pretty much the F1 budget, and trouser the change toward an attempt at Le Mans!

As to whoever was worrying about job security? You are in the wrong game with F1. I can name a dozen BIG teams that have closed since I started watching motorsport.
Some manufacturer backed, some not.

I have to ask how anyone can justify 700 employees to run 2 cars, though. What DO they all do?