[WEC Race] 2021 The Bahrain races

[bobec]

In that case I expect the Ferrari to have had to give the position back after the final stops.

[JoeF]

That is what the commentary crew and myself kept saying!!! Not sure if Porsche is filing an appeal. Just sucks it ended this way.

[J Jay]

Penultimate-lap move around the outside of Blanchimont this wasn't.

"I couldn't do anything" implies that Pier Guidi was essentially napping - what did he expect Christensen to do into the final corner with an LMP2 compromising his entry? That in itself seems ridiculous, it would have been the perfect time to send one up the inside.

In making a decision that benefitted the racing, the race control may have made a rod for their own backs here. On the website, the GTE-Pro result is the only one confirmed as provisional, so I suspect there will be afters. Not a good look to see a championship decided away from the track.

[bella]

i'd rather it was decided away from the track than the stewards refuse to look at or amend a result that has question marks over it.

personally i don't think pier guidi was in a position to send it down the inside at all - that would have ended in tears. christensen was all over the road - he only noticed the p2 at the last minute and had to brake early to let him past rather than have him pass into the corner. but pier guidi was slow to react (perhaps because he wouldn't make a pass there). you don't want to lock a front left at that stage in the race, the inside shoulder would delaminate pretty quickly and your spare front won't be in great nick.

racing incident imo, but a fairly unsavoury one.

[bentley speed 8]

Honestly, it does seem like the #92 moves on the straight to block the P2 (maybe thinking it was the Ferrari?) and then moves back onto the racing line once he realizes it's a P2. Also according to Pier Guidi, it seems he got the message to continue from the pit box instead of slowing down, saying that race control told it would be fine. In similar situations in the past where you are ordered to give back a place, the message gets repeated over and over again, but this time it just didn't happen, and there were a few laps to make it happen.

I certainly don't want to be in the position of the steward to call this one out...

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by bella

i'd rather it was decided away from the track than the stewards refuse to look at or amend a result that has question marks over it.



personally i don't think pier guidi was in a position to send it down the inside at all - that would have ended in tears. christensen was all over the road - he only noticed the p2 at the last minute and had to brake early to let him past rather than have him pass into the corner. but pier guidi was slow to react (perhaps because he wouldn't make a pass there). you don't want to lock a front left at that stage in the race, the inside shoulder would delaminate pretty quickly and your spare front won't be in great nick.



racing incident imo, but a fairly unsavoury one.

Watching the video I have to agree. Sucky for both but think both were both not being smart about traffic and track position and a poor decision resulted in spun car.

If we're strictly no contact rules Pier Guidi is screwed but he had no where to go. ZERO chance he's crossing the track there to the inside line so making that argument is assuming physics don't count.

Christensen however didn't cover himself in glory by not noticing the LMP2 earlier, yes it's the job of the passer to make the move but you need to be aware. He seemed to be distracted and a bit late in the corner, caught Pier Guidi out thinking he would go deeper.

No chance it was intentional spin to win NASCAR style but could, and should, he have done better? Most likely but time penalty wouldn't change much.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by bella

i'd rather it was decided away from the track than the stewards refuse to look at or amend a result that has question marks over it.

That's not my implication, to be clear. We'd all prefer the correct result to be reached, whatever the stewards decide that is.

If a drive-through or post-race penalty had been applied, there would be less contention (not none, less) about the result. As it currently stands, it looks like Pier Guidi bumped-and-ran his way to a title with no consequence.

He did slow down as advised, but the #92 had pitted at exactly the same time. There'll be much trawling of the rules around conceding positions tonight...

Originally Posted by broadrun96

No chance it was intentional spin to win NASCAR style but could, and should, he have done better? Most likely but time penalty wouldn't change much.

Except the result of the race, and the championship. Outside of when either car pitted, the gap was never more than 3 seconds after the incident. Any time penalty given to the #51 would have swapped the cars.

Edit - Porsche's protest that the incident wasn't referred to the stewards has been rejected. I'm not sure what Porsche were expecting there; unless they're going to lodge a protest directly relating to the withdrawal of the order anyway, this protest looks frivolous.

[JoeF]

Pier Guidi was ordered to let him back by. Porsche didn"t ask for him to spin them where it happened. He is supposed to slow and allow him back by immediately. Obviously he did not do that and it was obvious Ferrari was going to stretch it out as long as possible because they both needed to pit for a splash. The fact is he did not observe the order. This would never have gone this way with the FIA stewards in F1. It would end up in the courts. He was ordered and never obeyed that damn order that is the plain fact.

[bella]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Edit - Porsche's protest that the incident wasn't referred to the stewards has been rejected. I'm not sure what Porsche were expecting there; unless they're going to lodge a protest directly relating to the withdrawal of the order anyway, this protest looks frivolous.

making a point, presumably. most appeals are speculative. same path of thought that has people on the wrong tyres declare loudly on the radio and report to race direction that a safety car needs to stay out because it's unsafe.

plus the more official paperwork that goes in that demonstrates inconsistency in penalties or ~favouritism~ or whatever case it is someone wants to prove, the more ammo there is when someone decides that's the hill they want to die on.

also, side note but if there's a significant delay in taking a penalty from it being awarded, it usually means the team manager is upstairs having a row with the race director.

[J Jay]

Point taken, we've heard references to team managers having it out with stewards on many occasions, hence the three-lap limit for minor penalties to be enacted. For what happened here though, the team did tell Pier Guidi to slow, and he complied, but as soon as Christensen made his stop then the order seems to have been revoked.

I look forward to the final result being announced some time next week, if we're lucky. The appeal from Porsche will surely come soon.

Edit - Presumably Porsche are trying to ague that either no action or insufficient action was taken in regards to Pier Guidi. There's nothing on the notice board regarding a stewards' decision about the incident, so this was probably what the protest was based on.

[bella]

they'd be examining the exact wording of the rules as well regarding slowing to let someone past. lots of the rulebook isn't brilliantly written (and it defaults to the french version if the english translation is pants), so it's completely possible that they fully complied with the rule as it's written currently. porsche could be kicking up a stink to make sure it gets rewritten with more detail if that's feasible. alternatively, ferrari had porsche's pants down and they're trying to make it look like a rule infringement and not simply being out-played.

[Pandamasque]

The stewards decision was not to slow down. It was to give the position back. Was it impossible to do when the two cars spent about 6 laps within seconds off each other?

And now we have it confirmed that stewards' decisions are optional. No penalty was served. I see no reason why Porsche should not just ignore any stewards' decision they wish from here onwards.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

The stewards decision was not to slow down. It was to give the position back. Was it impossible to do when the two cars spent about 6 laps within seconds off each other?

And now we have it confirmed that stewards' decisions are optional. No penalty was served. I see no reason why Porsche should not just ignore any stewards' decision they wish from here onwards.

I'm largely in agreement with you; I'm trying to find the rationale for what happened, not excusing anybody for the actions they took.

I suspect the combination Pier Guidi slowing down and Christensen pitting at the same time may have influenced the decision to revoke the order.

Or possibly, as others have alluded to, the decision was actually reversed (with the worst possible timing), if the stewards decided that Christensen had acted erratically when being lapped, which gave Pier Guidi nowhere to go.

[bella]

considering there’s no official paperwork available for the penalty i suspect it may have been revoked prior to the team manager signing it. depending on what it’s for, it can end up being a bit backwards - the team finds out on live timing rather than being summoned on discord or something. a lot goes on that never reaches the timing screens or commentary teams.

does anybody have a vague timeline from memory?

[Alex Langheck]

The offence warranted a drive through - giving the position back is just nonsense, and designed not to affect the championship.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by bella

does anybody have a vague timeline from memory?

I only remember Freitas' voice coming up live on air less than one lap after the contact. I remember thinking it was impressive how quickly they managed the situation and that we still had a race on our hands. Pretty much at that very point the Porsche was called to pit.

[bobec]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

And now we have it confirmed that stewards' decisions are optional. No penalty was served. I see no reason why Porsche should not just ignore any stewards' decision they wish from here onwards.

Or just leave this circus and go to F1

[bobec]

Originally Posted by J Jay

I suspect the combination Pier Guidi slowing down and Christensen pitting at the same time may have influenced the decision to revoke the order.

Christensen said they had planned to pit later but did it after the incident to check the damage.

[bobec]

Did anyone find out why the #91 got a 10 sec penalty around the midpoint of the race?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by bobec

Did anyone find out why the #91 got a 10 sec penalty around the midpoint of the race?

Pit lane violation, apparently 10 seconds added to pit time for something while trying to get the left rear off.

[J Jay]

And here comes the official appeal.

Now, we wait.

[bella]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Pit lane violation, apparently 10 seconds added to pit time for something while trying to get the left rear off.

not sure if it's the same penalty or not but the noticeboard says "driver turned on the engine whilst someone was still in the working area", so that's either a mistake with the lollipop or makowiecki was being a bit too keen.

[broadrun96]

That's likely it, so I saw was a note of time added after a pit stop took longer than "normal". Sounds like he was ready for a set time and went a bit early on the button

[bella]

i think the sequence usually goes:
working area cleared
lollipop flipped to instruct driver to start engine and prepare to go as soon as the jacks are released/fuelling is complete and the lollipop goes up
air jacks pulled/fuelling finishes and fueller clears the car/earth line pulled off car and lollipop goes up if it’s safe to release. depending on the type of start the driver may or may not be in first before the car hits the ground.

so you can see where in that process the mistakes could crop up.

[Simmi]

Managed to catch up on the finale late last night.

Can't help thinking that race control/the stewards just completely bottled that whole situation. "Give the place back" might have seemed like a pragmatic late approach but it ultimately created a grey area. There's no way that ruling gets handed down if the incident happens at the half way point. It's a likely a time penalty at the pit stop.

They also didn't see the ruling through to conclusion - so I can see why Porsche were ****ed. Also, what Jani said during the AF interview as he walked away must have sounded better in his own head!